Something to look at

[Unstable 8]

Had a a very interesting jump this Saturday, very grateful that it was uneventful as well!
I went up on a student load with 2 students, a JM and mysel in the back. After the JM put both students out on the dope rope, I exited after the JM and did a hop n pop from 5 grand. I was dicking around with my canopy, using my rear risers, and i didn't use any toggle input until my base leg. Nice soft landing in the peas, looked pretty sharp. I started packing up, and as i stowed my brakes, both toggles fell right off as i pulled them freaking down!!!! The brakes were fingertrapped in, but without being stitched into place, worked their way out in they 50 or so jumps i have on my rig. Didn't seem to be a big deal at first, but the more i think about it, the more i realize how lucky i am that didn't happen on my final approach, when i may or may not have had time to correct the problem.

I had a rigger fingertrap them in and put a couple stitches through there until next week when he can take it to his shop and work on that along with a number of other modifications i need done.


sds
Manhappening KS

=========Shaun ==========

[Kris 0]

Were they knotted or just finger-trapped with no stitching?

I play with my brake settings a lot so mine aren't stitched, but I use a knot that won't slip to secure them.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[JayhawkJumper 0]

You should have those bar tacked (sp) or at least zig zagged. Thats the great thing about finger traps though, if they aren't stiched, they will still hold because of the tension, but when you released tension after you landed, they came out. Don't jump fingertrapped toggles that aren't stiched or secured in some way. Losing a toggle on final would not be good.

[Unstable 8]

They were just fingertrapped, about an inch and a half into the dacron line. A rigger at the DZ tacked them with a couple stitches and next week i will swing the rig by in KC on my way back from Iowa, and have my rigger cross stitch them and other work.
Even with the tension, they very well could have come out. These are all just things i need to be careful with. I'm a lowtimer (60-something now) and i'm still asking as many questions as i can.

sds

=========Shaun ==========

[fudd 0]

That's sounded scary!
I'm a bit worried myself. My brakelines is only fingertapped, not stitched. The fingertap is about 4 inches, so it sits tight, but I'm keeping my eye on them.
A rigger mounted them when the canopy was brand new 20 jumps ago. Probably didn't bartack them in case they had to be adjusted.
I've though of marking the line with ink so that it's easy to see if they start to slip. Anyone know what kind of markers that can be used safe, without detering the material in the line?

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[darkwing 4]

1 1/2 inches is way too little. Who is responsible for it? They should have been knotted at least. This is a serious rigging error.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mikeat10500 9]

Unstable
Do you normally do a flight control check? If so when? Do you pack with inspection "look for stuff that
may fail on you next jump"? Do you know what to look for when packing? Do you have a back up plan
for failures...how are you planing on safely landing
when a toggle comes off in your hand at 200'?
...mike

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[Unstable 8]

Obviously I am responsible for it. I am responsible for doing the checks when packing and ensuring that everything is safe. I am responsible for making sure that a rigger secured it properly, and knowing for myself that it is airworthy. I am still learning the ins-and outs of taking care of a rig, and i just didn't know. I feel pretty stupid

And yes, i did do a control check when my canopy opened. It was fine then, so i set my toggles aside and didn't need them until base leg.

i appreciate any advice i can get,

sds
Manhappening KS

=========Shaun ==========

[mikeat10500 9]

Quote

I feel pretty stupid

Don't...It doesn't help " we know your not stupid"

Quote

And yes, i did do a control check when my canopy opened. It was fine then, so i set my toggles aside and didn't need them until base leg.

Cool

Quote

i appreciate any advice i can get,

Keep asking questions...wade through the
answers...talk to your coaches/instructors, learn as
much as you can....stay alive....have fun!

....mike

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[kansasskydiver 0]

hmmmm i thought it was only one toggle that fell off, you never told me it was both...

why are you going to iowa?

Chris "Flash"

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Unstable 8]

The second toggle fell off as Dave was fiddeling with it, and it came off pretty easily. Dave Tacked both them on, and it's on my "things to get fixed" list, as well as getting the briddle protection, and full riser covers.
I'm leaving for Iowa Probably Thursday evening. A good deal of my family is in Des Moines, and my cousin is graduating from a community college there sunday afternoon, and it provided a good excuse to go up and jump with the Couch Freaks at Winterset. David P. talked to an acquantince up there, and wants me to start learning to pack tandems, so i can help him at the conventiion early aug. I havent' decided when i'm heading up though, maybe as late as friday night.

=========Shaun ==========

[kansasskydiver 0]

You're packing tandems too? Geez you're just a regular David prodigy aren't you. He's gonna have you rigging for him pretty soon huh

yes you need to get bridal protection, once you do i'll take you on a FF jump cool. And remember, take a sec to slow down, breath, relax, take in as much skydiving as you can. There's no rush to get into CReW and everything else. Make it a 20 year comitment to yourself to still me skydiving. But to do that take it slow.

Have fun in Iowa, guess we don't see you around here this weekend you're gonna miss one hell of a showing though, I'm FFing a tube this weekend

Chris

[Unstable 8]

I'll tell ya this: i'm in NO rush to start packing or rigging. Last thing i want is a legal problem or even more to worry about. David Asked if i would learn so i could help him, seeing how Justin couldn't make it this year. I think it sounds like a good excuse to go to the WFFC this year, pack a little and jump a little.

sds
" What are you ging to do? Release the hounds? Release the Bees? release the hounds with the bees in their mouths that shoot bees at you when they bark??"

edited bc i can't spell for crap

=========Shaun ==========

[jumpgod 0]

ooops. when you can't sew the finger traps, have your rigger or yourself tie knots in the lines so that the toggles can't come off of the break lines. this is a satisfactory "temporary" fix until you can sew the finger traps securely.

jg

[Unstable 8]

thats what we did as well as tacking them on. Getting fixed hopefully this sunday!

=========Shaun ==========

[dreamsville 0]

quote:

yes you need to get bridal protection, once you do i'll take you on a FF jump cool.
/quote

Does that mean that he needs to get protection from his spouse if he stays out jumping for too long?
|

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[faulknerwn 37]

I had the same thing happen to me once - but I did it to myself :-)
I had just lengthened my brake lines on my CRW canopy but I didn't know if the setting would be right so I didn't tack it down. I just fingertrapped them in and went up. The dive went well, no issues, but right after my feet touched down a toggle came off in my hand!

I stitch them now....

W

[Unstable 8]

Quote

Does that mean that he needs to get protection from his spouse if he stays out jumping for too long?

Spouse? Hahahahahahaha. I'm bearly 19. Funny story though, my former GF came out the the DZ one day, bitched in front of everybody for 30 minutes, and left. I hear about that still from some of the guys out there.

sds

=========Shaun ==========

[kansasskydiver 0]

you mean that one girl that was at lunch whom I had no idea who the heck she was? You said she was just your friend. I didn't see her bitch at you, i wanna hear the story!

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Katzeye 0]

bitched about skydiving?! how dare she! Throw her outta a plane!

Is a chicken omelette redundant?

[Unstable 8]

Quote

you mean that one girl that was at lunch whom I had no idea who the heck she was? You said she was just your friend. I didn't see her bitch at you, i wanna hear the story

You missed it, but Charity probably got an earfull! She came out about 3-4 weeks ago, just showed up at the DZ unexpected. I was lying in the grass talking to Either Mark or Alex. She sat down and grumped until i pulled her aside to talk to her. She just bitched at me for 30 minutes, then got all pissy when i went inside to get ready for the next load. I have some really good phyco-bitch stories about her, after we broke up (after 3 years, might i add) she got really fucking wierd. Stalker Chic.
2 weeks ago, i was at the DZ with just Matt and myself. She drove by like 4 times, didnt' come in, just kept circling. wierdness.


sds

edited cuz i can't spell or write in full sentences.

=========Shaun ==========

[prepheckt 0]

Been there dude...I was at Eloy over Thanksgiving...nice dive, open, pop the breaks, and the left one comes off in my hand....WTF?? Quick altitude/canopy control check, all good, fly it in with rear risers..good thing I had some experience flying with rear risers and the CReW camp! Definately get it bartacked.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[Unstable 8]

Quote

Been there dude

I've gotten in the habbit of just keeping my mouth shut if i do something i would owe beer for. I already owe 5 cases during a string where i got off student and jumped my own gear, and got my A. I always buy $20 of bottled water, we need that during the summer a lot more than beer.
sds

=========Shaun ==========

[ZigZag 0]

1. Dacron:
First of all, consider the thickness or diameter of Dacron used for lower control lines, especially on reserves as is the case with Precision Aerodynamics and Pisa reserves(no longer available, but plenty of them in service). Simply tying a overhand knot over both lines to form a "loop" is not an option, as the knot becomes too big and creates a hazard in its own right. You can thread the Dacron through the grommet of the toggle to create a larks-head in a fashion and then terminate the "single" line with an overhand knot. You will end up with some excess line that is considered untidy by some riggers, but has worked well over the years. Detailed instructions on this method can be obtained from reserve manuals by Precision and Pisa. The alternate method is to fingertrap the line and then to "bartack" it. Make sure you have at least 5" of the running end fingertrapped. A double pass zig-zag stitch pattern is OK too. Precision reserves today are terminated by the factory.
2. Spectra:
Spectra control lines come with many mains and several reserves. The PD manual for its main and reserve canopies comes with detailed instructions for a rigger friendly assembly. Because the diameter of Spectra is less than of Dacron, there is not much of an issue with tying an overhand knot including the running end of the line to form a loop. There is some excess brakeline and riggers tidy the assembly up by finger-trapping the excess above the knot into the line. It is however better to start off with the finger-trap and then to tie the knot, ensuring that the insertion point of the finger-trap is inside of the knot itself. This will prevent the excess line from getting pulled out again, as is common with riser and toggle Velcro. The overhand knot is preferable for Spectra, especially in light of mains, where the lines shrink and may need adjusment on occasion. If the fingertrapped portion is to short, this adjustment may not be possible, as has happened with many Icarus canopies that use Vectran. It is not recommended to terminate Spectra lines like the old fashioned Dacron line version(larks head & knot) as the knot itself could conceivably slip through the grommet
3. Vectran:
There was a short period where many riggers had to replace good control lines on Icarus canopies. Vectran of suitable tensile strength for control lines allowed for the overhand knot on a pair of lines, but they where a pain to get through the "0" grommet on the toggles. It was and is preferable to fingertrap the line and then to bartack above the insertion point to prevent slippage. As Vectran had good dimensional stability it was not anticipated having to adjust them, but front riser control input issues on some of their products required a lengthening of the brake to toggle lines. By that time it was to late, as most users found their remaining excess inside of the fingertrap of inadequate length.
4. Technora(HMA):
The termination is more or less identical to Vectran. The diameter of Technora(HMA) used for control lines allows for a bartack or an overhand knot. PD has begun to experiment with Technora on their competition canopies, following suit to Precision Aerodynamics's aquiring production rights from PROFILE RESEARCH (Nitro), now known as High Performance Research in Germany.

Read as many manuals you can get your hands on. They are out there, many of them, maybe you have some in your closet. In this sport you owe yourself an education, because if you don't....well, some manuals are less informative than you would like...this is where we as riggers should be more aware. Like I said, blame can be spread thin.

[loughery 0]

My Ex did that once and that was the last time I brought her to the DZ and soon after became my EX.

TOT

TOT
www.SkydiveMoncton.com

To my wife: 'If you ask me to stop skydiving, you are asking me to move out!'