Should we comment to DZ's about their negative advertising?

[peek 20]

How much responsibility to skydiving in general do you all think we have to comment to drop zones when we see that they are making statements on their web sites or in their advertising that is negative to skydiving or to any particular segment of skydiving?

[livendive 8]

How do you mean? Like ASC's methods of "advertising"? Like SLV's characterization of upjumpers as reckless yahoo's?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[whocares 0]

You don't have any responsibility. Running a DZ is a business. A lot of people have opinions, like me, but we can only make suggestions.

I don't need anyone telling me how to run my business or how to advertise.

[jlmiracle 7]

I believe it is our responsibility if they are falsely claiming anything or misleading people. We are supposed to be self -policing aren't we. But more importantly, is the dz in question a group member dz? If so, a complaint should be filed with the USPA and if the USPA BOD had some "balls" (no offense Gary, I know it will take the whole village here), they would implement some ethical requirements to be a Group Member dropzone.

I have seen advertisements for a dz, that states they are a USPA certified dropzone, or the USPA certified dropzone for your area. When did the USPA start "certifying dz's" and designated a dz for a certain area.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[PhreeZone 15]

My favorite one is one DZ that claims that since no one else in the area can match the checklist that they have on their website they are the safest one and everywhere else is dangerous. Nice thing is the list has things on it like "Founder" of this organization, only "Modern" plane in the state (Thats untrue since there are newer planes in the same state) and other things that generally paint even other USPA DZ's in a very poor light and make it sound like skydiving with anyone other then them is risking your life foolishly.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Thanatos340 1]

I personally have issues with any business that intentionally makes false or misleading ads or websites to get more business.
Exaggeration is one thing (that is most advertising) but lies and deception are going way too far.
In a business where you are to some degree putting your life in hands of the business owner it is even more important that you feel confident that the business owners have some ethics.
The DZ that is most well know for questionable business practices is located very close to me, but I choose to drive an extra hour to get to a DZ that I know is more interested in making me a better skydiver than how much money they can get out of me.
As a student I simply cannot trust a DZ with questionable business practices.

[marks 0]

Quote

I personally have issues with any business that intentionally makes false or misleading ads or websites to get more business.
Exaggeration is one thing (that is most advertising) but lies and deception are going way too far.
In a business where you are to some degree putting your life in hands of the business owner it is even more important that you feel confident that the business owners have some ethics.
The DZ that is most well know for questionable business practices is located very close to me, but I choose to drive an extra hour to get to a DZ that I know is more interested in making me a better skydiver than how much money they can get out of me.
As a student I simply cannot trust a DZ with questionable business practices.

the "questionable" drop zone has done alot for skydiving in your area. it is just too bad that you cannot stay out of somones buissness polatics and enjoy what they have built for you.... a skydiver..

blue sky's

p.s. there are a few nice drop zones in that area... one of them just wants all the tandams.... what does that have to do with you??..... nothing..

you should come out and jump with us and see what kind of experiance is there and how much better of a skydiver you could become...

dont want to argue but i dont like peaple talking trash about any dz they never goto. or even never have been too...

[billvon 2,454]

>the "questionable" drop zone has done alot for skydiving in your
> area. it is just too bad that you cannot stay out of somones
> buissness polatics and enjoy what they have built for you.... a
> skydiver..

The previous poster has every right to jump wherever he chooses, and has taken the high road by not listing the name of a DZ, just stating that he does not wish to jump there. He's voting with his dollars, and that's the right way to do it. That's not business politics.

[peek 20]

I guess what I should have asked is, "Do any of you feel a responsibility to ..."

I feel like I do, because I support skydiving in general, all aspects of it, all skydiving "disciplines", all instructional programs, all anything.

I think that when a particular type of skydiving, instruction, etc. is put in a negative light, that it is bad for the sport in general.

It is my understanding that skydivers have begun to be more vocal about safety related things, like not getting on aircraft they don't feel good about.

I was wondering if they were feeling like they should be more vocal about how drop zones treat the sport in general, which I assume affects them too.

Another (quite hypothetical) situation would be, what if a dz started saying negative things about head down skydiving and that their drop zone did not allow it because they thought it was dangerous, and listed reasons why on their web site.

You could simply not jump there, but I am asking if you would feel a responsibility to the sport to call them up for example, and tell them that it hurts skydiving in general.

Things like this on web sites could be found by someone searching for ammo to use against another dz, for example, that had a fatality, and the person happened to be doing head down skydiving _before_ they hooked it in under a good canopy.

Again, very hypothetical, but stranger things have happened that have affected skydiving in a negative way.

(By the way, I ask a lot of questions with hypothetical components. It get people thinking.)

[livendive 8]

Quote

My favorite one is one DZ that claims that since no one else in the area can match the checklist that they have on their website they are the safest one and everywhere else is dangerous. Nice thing is the list has things on it like "Founder" of this organization, only "Modern" plane in the state (Thats untrue since there are newer planes in the same state) and other things that generally paint even other USPA DZ's in a very poor light and make it sound like skydiving with anyone other then them is risking your life foolishly.

My favorite part is

Quote

"Due to the high level of experience of our instructors, and our use of the best equipment available, we can accommodate persons weighing as much as 285 LBS. There are hand full of small part time operators in the south east U.S. will impose strict weight limits and will not take persons weighing over 239lbs. Although you may not weigh this much this should be a concern as it is an indication of lack of experience and or the modern equipment necessary to handle larger individuals which puts you closer to the limit of their experience or equipment. Don't push the limit, skydive with the PROFESSIONALS! Your worth it!"

What a crock.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Don't push the limit, skydive with the PROFESSIONALS! Your worth it!"

That's pretty lame. Any business that needs to trash their competition is bad business IMO. And if they're so professional, they should learn how to spell "you're".

[PhreeZone 15]

Kicker is... I'm not even talking about that DZ

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[phonics1981 0]

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Kicker is... I'm not even talking about that DZ

Give us their slogan so we can search for them then

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"Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!"
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[Thanatos340 1]

No Trash Talking here. Just stating my opinion on the Subject question.

I am glad that many skydivers do speak out about false and/or negative advertising by DZ`s so that people new to the sport can read all opinions and make an informed opinion about which places are best for them.

I have met several Skydivers from the DZ I was referring to and thought they were great people that I would like to jump with once I finally get off student status. Until then I don’t have enough experience to know if I am being misled by management or not so I choose to go elsewhere.

It is all about Trust. How can you completely trust someone that is known to intentionally mislead people to make more money??


Peace.

[whocares 0]

Not to hard to cut and paste the info into google.

[phonics1981 0]

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Not to hard to cut and paste the info into google.

?

I know, i did that with
"Don't push the limit, skydive with the PROFESSIONALS! Your worth it" and found the DZ but PhreeZone said thats not the one he's talking about.

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"Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!"
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[SkySlut 0]

there are some limits to taste...i.e. signs that say "we dont leave our students hanging"

[quade 3]

Forget responsibility for a second.

It's just bad advertising to remind people of why they might not want your product to begin with. Any references at all to unsafe or reckless behavior anywhere in the sport automatically makes people question whether or not they want to do the act at all.

You can take it to extremes (or is it just being prudent) like the airline industry does. For instance, they will cancel their TV advertising any day there is a major plane crash. This way the news won't cutaway from a plane crash to an ad for an airline and vice versa. Also, where you aware that in most airports, there is a special version of CNN running JUST for airlines? Yep, all references to airplane crashes are left out.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Nutz 0]

[whocares 0]

the "questionable" drop zone has done alot for skydiving in your
> area. it is just too bad that you cannot stay out of somones
> buissness polatics and enjoy what they have built for you.... a
> skydiver.. ***


There is info posted on this link you can put into the google link and poof you will know the DZ in question.

My thoughts are if you are going to call someone or some orginazation out on the mat name names so people can defend themselfs.

[carth 0]

When i decided i wanted to start skydiving (going on my first AFF soon) i had no idea where wanted to take it as i only had one friend who'd ever done a jump before. There are about 5 DZs within 90 min of me i pretty much ignored all the advertiseing and read peoples reviews on this site. /shrug i'd hope that others who consider it would do the same and not be tricked my a marketing ploy.

[quade 3]

What if this web site is a marketing ploy?

Or more properly, is being used as a marketing ploy by some DZs?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[carth 0]

hmm good point i never considered the fact a few dz's might ask employees to flood the comment section with great reviews for them... i guess i trust people alittle to much ;-)

[quade 3]

I not saying that is actually the case, but that IS how grassroots marketing is done.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[peek 20]

Paul Quade wrote: (in response to my original post)

Forget responsibility for a second.

It's just bad advertising to remind people of why they might not want your product to begin with. Any references at all to unsafe or reckless behavior anywhere in the sport automatically makes people question whether or not they want to do the act at all.

Gary:

Folks, Paul got the idea I was trying to make. I was not talking about ASC, gross misrepresentation, or bad business practices. (Not passing judgement on anyone at all, I'll let you form your own opinion.)

I was talking about the subtle things that probably many drop zones state in their web sites, brochures, and even their personal conversations with potential students.

Why would anyone want to mention _anything_ negative while trying to sell skydiving?!!! If I were a DZO I would try to downplay anything negative, (even accidents at a competing drop zone!), just to keep a potential student from becoming scared of skydiving.

In other words, if you sling mud, you are going to wind up with mud on you.