YahooLV 0 #26 June 14, 2003 eyah, and it was great! We've got another course in Aug.http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #27 June 14, 2003 Get the pro card. I have had one for years and am qualified on mains as big as a Sigma 370 to as small as a Stiletto 120. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #28 June 14, 2003 We got around 5000 each, That's Rands, not Dollars. About 80 skydives worth - I think is a fair comparison. Here you need to do demo's, or redo the pro rating anually to keep it. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #29 June 14, 2003 QuoteWho knows, maybe one day that will be me soaring into a stadium with smoke coming out of my shoes as part of a demo formation jump. Dreams can come true ... and I'll be there for that stadium jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #30 June 14, 2003 Did ya happen to catch the article in Skydiving Magazine last month?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #31 June 14, 2003 QuoteThanks guys. I'm going to do a few practice accuracry landings this weekend, then maybe next week I'll start on the *real* ten I have to do. Airtwardo, Thank you for your offer, I will most definately be talking to you later. Dave- Got one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #32 June 14, 2003 QuoteI am currently practicing to get my PRO rating. You know what I've found??? I have become a much better canopy pilot now that I am actually aiming at a target and trying to hit it!!! I know it sounds silly but I have found a lot of strengths and weaknesses in my canopy control skills just by practicing accuracy. I am gaining more insight into flying in different wind speeds and learning more about my new 9 cell at the same time. Learning any new discipline in this sport is always exciting and challenging. I like how it also opens the forum and things in common to discuss and learn more about with other fellow jumpers. I am learning tons about flying my canopy and gaining self confidence everytime I hit that target. Who knows, maybe one day that will be me soaring into a stadium with smoke coming out of my shoes as part of a demo formation jump. Dreams can come true ... JUST DO IT! Blues, Jen O Absolutely! From this point on... (if you're working on your PRO) Treat every jump as an accuracy / demo jump. Aim for various parts of you DZ's landing area. Don't get into the habit of just the peas, throw a towel in the corner next to the fence. Think about several suitable approaches to the target. Sounds a little 'Zen' , but visualize yourself coming into the target... Both from your canopy 'pilots' perspective, and what it will look like to your customers. In a tight area, think about possible turbulence coming off nearby trees or structures. Think about your outs...they will change at different altitudes. If it's getting ugly...USE THEM! There a many things that go along with being a "Demonstration Parachute Jumper". Two of the absolutely most important ones are... 1. DON'T HURT ANYONE ON THE GROUND! I can't possibly stress this enough. You are representing our sport to 'Ma & Pa Kettle", they paid their nickel to be entertained not maimed. Nothing hurts the image of our sport more than the meat wagon loading up some lady with a baby, jump boot imprints on their foreheads, right in the middle of what was supposed to be a festive occasion. Don't get fancy on a tight approach...don't swoop if it's in any possible way going to endanger spectators. They for the most part don't know the difference...all they wanna see is you land on target, and do so standing up. (both are nice, one or the other will usually do) Don't do anything in front of a crowd that you haven't practiced a dozen times before! Go through my posts in the "Scary Stories for the Old Days" thread, it will give you some insight to what I'm telling you here. Don't get out over, or deploy anything over anyone. Dave, I could fill the back of your truck with shit I've seen dropped from altitude... Murphy lurks...why take a chance! Rule 2 : DON'T GET HURT! Again you represent all of us...and we keep telling people that our sport is actually, relatively safe! Showing the 'Kettles' what a femur really looks like, only ingrains the 'barnstormer' image of times gone by. If you don't KNOW ... and I don't mean Think...I mean KNOW, that you can make the LZ without breaking these two rules... Use - Your - 'OUT.' I have never found a promoter that was unhappy with a decision concerning altering my performance, when safety was the issue. NOTE: What makes you a Professional ? : There are of course many things that go into being a PRO jumper... But the toughest one is - Training yourself that in order to never break rule # 1 You made have to break rule # 2 ! Bottom line...If the shit hits the fan, "YOU" Gotta Take The Hit... Don't make someone else pay for your error. Skydivers are often critical of a demo jumper getting hurt in front of a crowd... No one likes to see that, but many times after close evaluation, it was a Professional just making the 'best' out of a bad situation. Until you're been there and done that, reserve your criticism. I could write a small book on the technical aspects of demo jumping... But when you're just starting out, I believe the mental aspects are most important. A demo is NOT an ordinary skydive, there is a whole lot going on that you can't practice for... but if you've thought it all through... In your mind... prepared yourself for any eventuality. Chances are you will have a successful and entertaining jump... Both for you and your 'customers!' ( I really don't mean to sound like such a dick...but this stuff is important to me) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #33 June 14, 2003 Jim, Very well said! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #34 June 15, 2003 QuoteJim, Very well said! Sparky Thanks Michael - I was thinking while I was writing that. I did my fist demo when I was 18, I had 22 jumps... Jumping a Papillon ...carrying a flag, and smoke brackets on each foot. Into a Pro Baseball stadium... I have more that 100 times as many jumps now... and wouldn't even attempt to do that again! If I can help someone to avoid making the mistakes I've made... It only helps to advance the presentation of our sport to the general public, and helps toward my goal of becoming a true Professional. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #35 June 15, 2003 Jim, When you look back, you wonder how we survived some of the dumb things we did. Back then there just wasn't any one to go ask. You had to make it up as you went along and hope. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites iowa 0 #36 June 15, 2003 Well said Jim. Please, write the book. I'll buy at least one copy. Dave, get the rating and learn from from guys like Jim. Keith ''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #37 June 15, 2003 QuoteJim, When you look back, you wonder how we survived some of the dumb things we did. Back then there just wasn't any one to go ask. You had to make it up as you went along and hope. Sparky Sparky- Truer words were never spoken! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #38 June 15, 2003 QuoteGot one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? I would LOVE to do that! I need to talk to my boss to see what's the deal that day. Being a holiday we may have quite a few tandems, if that's the case, then I can't do it, I have to jump the tandems. I'll be in touch abou it. Thank you for the offer!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #39 June 15, 2003 You bet... We're still putting things together, so I don't know for sure if it would be worth your while.... We're going into 'Buffalo Bayou Park' early evening. I get with you when things are finalized. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #40 June 15, 2003 ***Not to mention, flag flying, streamers, smoke, an d learning to fill out paperwork and NOTAMS for the event. Quote You got that right! Your Skydiving skills are only 1/2 of what it takes to get it done. Notams...insurance...local ordinances If your the guy setting everything up, you had better be organized. Every little thing must be in order... Down to the diverdriver's paperwork...and the jumpship's! Had a friendly FED going through everything once... He casually asked the pilot- "So, you getting paid by these guys or the event?" The Pilot answered..."The jumpers" Friendly Fed said..."No..you must have misunderstood, you're not getting paid by ANYONE are you?" He didn't have a commercial ticket I guess... Another time a jumpship from a local (to the demo) dropzone came in to the airshow 20 minutes prior to our launch... The pilot who earlier assured me 'everything' was in order... Didn't have the STC for the door, in the aircraft as required. Things like that are the reason that whenever possible, I try to have the event organizer contract for the aircraft... I will put him / her in contact with the A/C operator.... But if something goes wrong, It's "their" problem... I still get paid! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #41 June 19, 2003 You'll be on it with me or you'll be there to see it? Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #42 June 19, 2003 Thanks Airtwardo, Those are all things I will keep in mind. Perhaps you should consider writing a book on demo jumping. The only book I know of out there that I am ashamed to say I haven't read yet but will start reading this weekend is called Canopy Skills or something... It would be good to have more books of reference (especially current ones). Anything else you wish to add or anyone wants to add about PRO/exhibition jumps, please share. Stories, experiences (good and/or bad), lessons learned. I think I may just start a new thread on this topic... Blue skies.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #43 June 19, 2003 That's a VERY good idea. Airtwardo could write a book or atleast some sort of manual on Demo Howto, for the aspirering Pro-Rating holder.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #44 June 19, 2003 There's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire. It's available from ParaGear under "Accessories & Extras" / "Books". (Sorry Square Guys & Gals, I couldn't find it on your web site.)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #45 July 2, 2003 QuoteThere's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire. It's available from ParaGear under "Accessories & Extras" / "Books". (Sorry Square Guys & Gals, I couldn't find it on your web site.) An excellent book! Very detailed...highly recommended. There are also valuable materials available through the USPA. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Genn 0 #46 July 2, 2003 QuoteThere's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire.Quote I have that one. It's a good book. Highly recommended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #47 July 2, 2003 Dave, I got mine and have a couple of cents to add. First, If Aggie stadium causes you conern, you might want to carefully think about which canopy you get qualified on. Your PRO card will state the minimum size canopy you can use. The earlier advise of using a canopy with a good "sink" rate is excellent. There will be more times than not that you will have to "sink" it in. They are all tight. Another thing to consider is other folks on your team and what they are or are not comfortable with. Personlly, I stay away from the flag and CReW if I can avoid it. However, I have no problems with smoke and close formation flying with smoke, whereas others do. There are some hidden costs involved with the PRO rating. One of the costs incurred is in having a demo rig to stay up on your skills. While I can use my Safire2 for most High School and community event demo's, my personal preference for closed stadium jumps is a Falcon 300 (I'm 255 out the door). An opportunity cost is the time to recon the DZ and ground support. You could be at the DZ doing tandems rather than reconning, so you've lost income plus spent gas money, etc. In addiiton, your ground crew needs to be able to be assertive in moving the crowd in accordance with the minimum fy-over/nears that need to be maintained. Nothing is more unnerving than to get the OK to jump, be under canopy and see that the crowd has boxed in the landing area and complexed your approach cause your ground crew wasn't assertive. There is a considerable amount of research in keeping up with the paperwork if you're doing demos where there is over "X" number of attendees (an ever-changing number) If you need demo liability insurance.... it is expensive. I "believe" the last quote I got was $400.00 per person per event. If the proprietor of the event needs/wants that insurance, you'll have to factor in the time to submit and costs. Ground-to-air communications is a cost. Some folks are OK with visuals (panels=cost) and such for "Go - No/Go decisions. Both visual and radio is best(radios=cost). Pilots usually charge more for demos AND there is more fuel required since most times you have a specific "Time on Target" where you have X number of minutes before the game starts or have the football on the ground, which means being over the target doing racetracks before the "Go." In short, it is better to take get some proactive assistance in getting your PRO rating than filling out the card and learning as you go and losing money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #48 July 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteGot one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? I would LOVE to do that! I need to talk to my boss to see what's the deal that day. Being a holiday we may have quite a few tandems, if that's the case, then I can't do it, I have to jump the tandems. I'll be in touch abou it. Thank you for the offer! Dave- We did our demo into downtown Houston Friday evening... Sorry you we're there... This one would have been a good learning experience for you. It was actually set up and coordinated by the leader of another Pro Demo team... His sponsored team had commitments in another state, so he contacted be about putting something together... I supplied 1/2 the talent, and the gear. He did everything else... A very well run show...a prime example of dotting all the " I's " and crossing all the " T's ". While walking back through the crowd, carrying the gear, from our LZ... I was stopped by some local jumpers and queried about something I did during the performance. In the hope of sparking some related discussion, let me ask you your thoughts...what you may have done. Four jumpers; 1 on a U.S. Flag, 1 on a Texas State Flag, 2 of us on 'Candycane Smokes' The smoke guys exit 1&2...the flags 3&4...all on the same pass, 4500' agl exit. Plan was to hop 'n pop...deploy smokes at 3000' and spin them down, putting us on the ground well before the flags. (focus attention on them for the National Anthem.) Unfortunately my 'trusty steed' chose this day to be a bit lethargic... I pulled after a short delay, about 3800' and sniveled down to about 1800'... Canopy opened, I deployed the smoke, landed safely. I was questioned / chastised about not cutting away higher by a couple of obviously knowledgeable skydivers... This in front of a large group of wuffos seeking pictures, autographs, and a handshake. Pop Quiz: What would you have done, Cut Away? How would you have handled the rather RUDE interrogation by other jumpers in front of wuffos? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #49 July 6, 2003 Cut away? Well, if it is trying to open and you're still above your hard-deck, then why? My personal hard deck is 1500ft. If that would have happened to me, I probably would have had my hands on the handles... The jumpers infront of whuffos? Tell them that right now is NOT the appropiate time or place to hold this conversation and offer to join them for some drinks later to discuss. People need to remember that each and everyone of us ARE the embassaders of our sport to whuffos around us. If they know that you jump, then their idea of the sport (in its real form, not the movie/real TV form) is from you the jumper.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #50 July 6, 2003 Jim, No one but you new the situation. We can all say we would to this or that but until you are the one with his ass on the line you can't say what you would do. You know your canopy and your abilities, sounds like you did the right thing. The jumpers sound like they were running their mouth to let everyone around know that they were jumpers too. To many jumpers do not understand that a demo in not just another skydive. I'll bet you dazzled the crowd. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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quade 3 #30 June 14, 2003 Did ya happen to catch the article in Skydiving Magazine last month?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #31 June 14, 2003 QuoteThanks guys. I'm going to do a few practice accuracry landings this weekend, then maybe next week I'll start on the *real* ten I have to do. Airtwardo, Thank you for your offer, I will most definately be talking to you later. Dave- Got one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #32 June 14, 2003 QuoteI am currently practicing to get my PRO rating. You know what I've found??? I have become a much better canopy pilot now that I am actually aiming at a target and trying to hit it!!! I know it sounds silly but I have found a lot of strengths and weaknesses in my canopy control skills just by practicing accuracy. I am gaining more insight into flying in different wind speeds and learning more about my new 9 cell at the same time. Learning any new discipline in this sport is always exciting and challenging. I like how it also opens the forum and things in common to discuss and learn more about with other fellow jumpers. I am learning tons about flying my canopy and gaining self confidence everytime I hit that target. Who knows, maybe one day that will be me soaring into a stadium with smoke coming out of my shoes as part of a demo formation jump. Dreams can come true ... JUST DO IT! Blues, Jen O Absolutely! From this point on... (if you're working on your PRO) Treat every jump as an accuracy / demo jump. Aim for various parts of you DZ's landing area. Don't get into the habit of just the peas, throw a towel in the corner next to the fence. Think about several suitable approaches to the target. Sounds a little 'Zen' , but visualize yourself coming into the target... Both from your canopy 'pilots' perspective, and what it will look like to your customers. In a tight area, think about possible turbulence coming off nearby trees or structures. Think about your outs...they will change at different altitudes. If it's getting ugly...USE THEM! There a many things that go along with being a "Demonstration Parachute Jumper". Two of the absolutely most important ones are... 1. DON'T HURT ANYONE ON THE GROUND! I can't possibly stress this enough. You are representing our sport to 'Ma & Pa Kettle", they paid their nickel to be entertained not maimed. Nothing hurts the image of our sport more than the meat wagon loading up some lady with a baby, jump boot imprints on their foreheads, right in the middle of what was supposed to be a festive occasion. Don't get fancy on a tight approach...don't swoop if it's in any possible way going to endanger spectators. They for the most part don't know the difference...all they wanna see is you land on target, and do so standing up. (both are nice, one or the other will usually do) Don't do anything in front of a crowd that you haven't practiced a dozen times before! Go through my posts in the "Scary Stories for the Old Days" thread, it will give you some insight to what I'm telling you here. Don't get out over, or deploy anything over anyone. Dave, I could fill the back of your truck with shit I've seen dropped from altitude... Murphy lurks...why take a chance! Rule 2 : DON'T GET HURT! Again you represent all of us...and we keep telling people that our sport is actually, relatively safe! Showing the 'Kettles' what a femur really looks like, only ingrains the 'barnstormer' image of times gone by. If you don't KNOW ... and I don't mean Think...I mean KNOW, that you can make the LZ without breaking these two rules... Use - Your - 'OUT.' I have never found a promoter that was unhappy with a decision concerning altering my performance, when safety was the issue. NOTE: What makes you a Professional ? : There are of course many things that go into being a PRO jumper... But the toughest one is - Training yourself that in order to never break rule # 1 You made have to break rule # 2 ! Bottom line...If the shit hits the fan, "YOU" Gotta Take The Hit... Don't make someone else pay for your error. Skydivers are often critical of a demo jumper getting hurt in front of a crowd... No one likes to see that, but many times after close evaluation, it was a Professional just making the 'best' out of a bad situation. Until you're been there and done that, reserve your criticism. I could write a small book on the technical aspects of demo jumping... But when you're just starting out, I believe the mental aspects are most important. A demo is NOT an ordinary skydive, there is a whole lot going on that you can't practice for... but if you've thought it all through... In your mind... prepared yourself for any eventuality. Chances are you will have a successful and entertaining jump... Both for you and your 'customers!' ( I really don't mean to sound like such a dick...but this stuff is important to me) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #33 June 14, 2003 Jim, Very well said! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #34 June 15, 2003 QuoteJim, Very well said! Sparky Thanks Michael - I was thinking while I was writing that. I did my fist demo when I was 18, I had 22 jumps... Jumping a Papillon ...carrying a flag, and smoke brackets on each foot. Into a Pro Baseball stadium... I have more that 100 times as many jumps now... and wouldn't even attempt to do that again! If I can help someone to avoid making the mistakes I've made... It only helps to advance the presentation of our sport to the general public, and helps toward my goal of becoming a true Professional. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #35 June 15, 2003 Jim, When you look back, you wonder how we survived some of the dumb things we did. Back then there just wasn't any one to go ask. You had to make it up as you went along and hope. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iowa 0 #36 June 15, 2003 Well said Jim. Please, write the book. I'll buy at least one copy. Dave, get the rating and learn from from guys like Jim. Keith ''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #37 June 15, 2003 QuoteJim, When you look back, you wonder how we survived some of the dumb things we did. Back then there just wasn't any one to go ask. You had to make it up as you went along and hope. Sparky Sparky- Truer words were never spoken! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #38 June 15, 2003 QuoteGot one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? I would LOVE to do that! I need to talk to my boss to see what's the deal that day. Being a holiday we may have quite a few tandems, if that's the case, then I can't do it, I have to jump the tandems. I'll be in touch abou it. Thank you for the offer!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #39 June 15, 2003 You bet... We're still putting things together, so I don't know for sure if it would be worth your while.... We're going into 'Buffalo Bayou Park' early evening. I get with you when things are finalized. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #40 June 15, 2003 ***Not to mention, flag flying, streamers, smoke, an d learning to fill out paperwork and NOTAMS for the event. Quote You got that right! Your Skydiving skills are only 1/2 of what it takes to get it done. Notams...insurance...local ordinances If your the guy setting everything up, you had better be organized. Every little thing must be in order... Down to the diverdriver's paperwork...and the jumpship's! Had a friendly FED going through everything once... He casually asked the pilot- "So, you getting paid by these guys or the event?" The Pilot answered..."The jumpers" Friendly Fed said..."No..you must have misunderstood, you're not getting paid by ANYONE are you?" He didn't have a commercial ticket I guess... Another time a jumpship from a local (to the demo) dropzone came in to the airshow 20 minutes prior to our launch... The pilot who earlier assured me 'everything' was in order... Didn't have the STC for the door, in the aircraft as required. Things like that are the reason that whenever possible, I try to have the event organizer contract for the aircraft... I will put him / her in contact with the A/C operator.... But if something goes wrong, It's "their" problem... I still get paid! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #41 June 19, 2003 You'll be on it with me or you'll be there to see it? Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoShitThereIWas 0 #42 June 19, 2003 Thanks Airtwardo, Those are all things I will keep in mind. Perhaps you should consider writing a book on demo jumping. The only book I know of out there that I am ashamed to say I haven't read yet but will start reading this weekend is called Canopy Skills or something... It would be good to have more books of reference (especially current ones). Anything else you wish to add or anyone wants to add about PRO/exhibition jumps, please share. Stories, experiences (good and/or bad), lessons learned. I think I may just start a new thread on this topic... Blue skies.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #43 June 19, 2003 That's a VERY good idea. Airtwardo could write a book or atleast some sort of manual on Demo Howto, for the aspirering Pro-Rating holder.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #44 June 19, 2003 There's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire. It's available from ParaGear under "Accessories & Extras" / "Books". (Sorry Square Guys & Gals, I couldn't find it on your web site.)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #45 July 2, 2003 QuoteThere's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire. It's available from ParaGear under "Accessories & Extras" / "Books". (Sorry Square Guys & Gals, I couldn't find it on your web site.) An excellent book! Very detailed...highly recommended. There are also valuable materials available through the USPA. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Genn 0 #46 July 2, 2003 QuoteThere's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire.Quote I have that one. It's a good book. Highly recommended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #47 July 2, 2003 Dave, I got mine and have a couple of cents to add. First, If Aggie stadium causes you conern, you might want to carefully think about which canopy you get qualified on. Your PRO card will state the minimum size canopy you can use. The earlier advise of using a canopy with a good "sink" rate is excellent. There will be more times than not that you will have to "sink" it in. They are all tight. Another thing to consider is other folks on your team and what they are or are not comfortable with. Personlly, I stay away from the flag and CReW if I can avoid it. However, I have no problems with smoke and close formation flying with smoke, whereas others do. There are some hidden costs involved with the PRO rating. One of the costs incurred is in having a demo rig to stay up on your skills. While I can use my Safire2 for most High School and community event demo's, my personal preference for closed stadium jumps is a Falcon 300 (I'm 255 out the door). An opportunity cost is the time to recon the DZ and ground support. You could be at the DZ doing tandems rather than reconning, so you've lost income plus spent gas money, etc. In addiiton, your ground crew needs to be able to be assertive in moving the crowd in accordance with the minimum fy-over/nears that need to be maintained. Nothing is more unnerving than to get the OK to jump, be under canopy and see that the crowd has boxed in the landing area and complexed your approach cause your ground crew wasn't assertive. There is a considerable amount of research in keeping up with the paperwork if you're doing demos where there is over "X" number of attendees (an ever-changing number) If you need demo liability insurance.... it is expensive. I "believe" the last quote I got was $400.00 per person per event. If the proprietor of the event needs/wants that insurance, you'll have to factor in the time to submit and costs. Ground-to-air communications is a cost. Some folks are OK with visuals (panels=cost) and such for "Go - No/Go decisions. Both visual and radio is best(radios=cost). Pilots usually charge more for demos AND there is more fuel required since most times you have a specific "Time on Target" where you have X number of minutes before the game starts or have the football on the ground, which means being over the target doing racetracks before the "Go." In short, it is better to take get some proactive assistance in getting your PRO rating than filling out the card and learning as you go and losing money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #48 July 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteGot one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? I would LOVE to do that! I need to talk to my boss to see what's the deal that day. Being a holiday we may have quite a few tandems, if that's the case, then I can't do it, I have to jump the tandems. I'll be in touch abou it. Thank you for the offer! Dave- We did our demo into downtown Houston Friday evening... Sorry you we're there... This one would have been a good learning experience for you. It was actually set up and coordinated by the leader of another Pro Demo team... His sponsored team had commitments in another state, so he contacted be about putting something together... I supplied 1/2 the talent, and the gear. He did everything else... A very well run show...a prime example of dotting all the " I's " and crossing all the " T's ". While walking back through the crowd, carrying the gear, from our LZ... I was stopped by some local jumpers and queried about something I did during the performance. In the hope of sparking some related discussion, let me ask you your thoughts...what you may have done. Four jumpers; 1 on a U.S. Flag, 1 on a Texas State Flag, 2 of us on 'Candycane Smokes' The smoke guys exit 1&2...the flags 3&4...all on the same pass, 4500' agl exit. Plan was to hop 'n pop...deploy smokes at 3000' and spin them down, putting us on the ground well before the flags. (focus attention on them for the National Anthem.) Unfortunately my 'trusty steed' chose this day to be a bit lethargic... I pulled after a short delay, about 3800' and sniveled down to about 1800'... Canopy opened, I deployed the smoke, landed safely. I was questioned / chastised about not cutting away higher by a couple of obviously knowledgeable skydivers... This in front of a large group of wuffos seeking pictures, autographs, and a handshake. Pop Quiz: What would you have done, Cut Away? How would you have handled the rather RUDE interrogation by other jumpers in front of wuffos? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #49 July 6, 2003 Cut away? Well, if it is trying to open and you're still above your hard-deck, then why? My personal hard deck is 1500ft. If that would have happened to me, I probably would have had my hands on the handles... The jumpers infront of whuffos? Tell them that right now is NOT the appropiate time or place to hold this conversation and offer to join them for some drinks later to discuss. People need to remember that each and everyone of us ARE the embassaders of our sport to whuffos around us. If they know that you jump, then their idea of the sport (in its real form, not the movie/real TV form) is from you the jumper.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #50 July 6, 2003 Jim, No one but you new the situation. We can all say we would to this or that but until you are the one with his ass on the line you can't say what you would do. You know your canopy and your abilities, sounds like you did the right thing. The jumpers sound like they were running their mouth to let everyone around know that they were jumpers too. To many jumpers do not understand that a demo in not just another skydive. I'll bet you dazzled the crowd. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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NoShitThereIWas 0 #41 June 19, 2003 You'll be on it with me or you'll be there to see it? Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #42 June 19, 2003 Thanks Airtwardo, Those are all things I will keep in mind. Perhaps you should consider writing a book on demo jumping. The only book I know of out there that I am ashamed to say I haven't read yet but will start reading this weekend is called Canopy Skills or something... It would be good to have more books of reference (especially current ones). Anything else you wish to add or anyone wants to add about PRO/exhibition jumps, please share. Stories, experiences (good and/or bad), lessons learned. I think I may just start a new thread on this topic... Blue skies.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #43 June 19, 2003 That's a VERY good idea. Airtwardo could write a book or atleast some sort of manual on Demo Howto, for the aspirering Pro-Rating holder.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #44 June 19, 2003 There's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire. It's available from ParaGear under "Accessories & Extras" / "Books". (Sorry Square Guys & Gals, I couldn't find it on your web site.)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #45 July 2, 2003 QuoteThere's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire. It's available from ParaGear under "Accessories & Extras" / "Books". (Sorry Square Guys & Gals, I couldn't find it on your web site.) An excellent book! Very detailed...highly recommended. There are also valuable materials available through the USPA. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #46 July 2, 2003 QuoteThere's already at least one book out there that has a lot of material in it titled Demo Details: Parachute Demonstration Performances by Byron T. Dormire.Quote I have that one. It's a good book. Highly recommended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #47 July 2, 2003 Dave, I got mine and have a couple of cents to add. First, If Aggie stadium causes you conern, you might want to carefully think about which canopy you get qualified on. Your PRO card will state the minimum size canopy you can use. The earlier advise of using a canopy with a good "sink" rate is excellent. There will be more times than not that you will have to "sink" it in. They are all tight. Another thing to consider is other folks on your team and what they are or are not comfortable with. Personlly, I stay away from the flag and CReW if I can avoid it. However, I have no problems with smoke and close formation flying with smoke, whereas others do. There are some hidden costs involved with the PRO rating. One of the costs incurred is in having a demo rig to stay up on your skills. While I can use my Safire2 for most High School and community event demo's, my personal preference for closed stadium jumps is a Falcon 300 (I'm 255 out the door). An opportunity cost is the time to recon the DZ and ground support. You could be at the DZ doing tandems rather than reconning, so you've lost income plus spent gas money, etc. In addiiton, your ground crew needs to be able to be assertive in moving the crowd in accordance with the minimum fy-over/nears that need to be maintained. Nothing is more unnerving than to get the OK to jump, be under canopy and see that the crowd has boxed in the landing area and complexed your approach cause your ground crew wasn't assertive. There is a considerable amount of research in keeping up with the paperwork if you're doing demos where there is over "X" number of attendees (an ever-changing number) If you need demo liability insurance.... it is expensive. I "believe" the last quote I got was $400.00 per person per event. If the proprietor of the event needs/wants that insurance, you'll have to factor in the time to submit and costs. Ground-to-air communications is a cost. Some folks are OK with visuals (panels=cost) and such for "Go - No/Go decisions. Both visual and radio is best(radios=cost). Pilots usually charge more for demos AND there is more fuel required since most times you have a specific "Time on Target" where you have X number of minutes before the game starts or have the football on the ground, which means being over the target doing racetracks before the "Go." In short, it is better to take get some proactive assistance in getting your PRO rating than filling out the card and learning as you go and losing money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #48 July 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteGot one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? I would LOVE to do that! I need to talk to my boss to see what's the deal that day. Being a holiday we may have quite a few tandems, if that's the case, then I can't do it, I have to jump the tandems. I'll be in touch abou it. Thank you for the offer! Dave- We did our demo into downtown Houston Friday evening... Sorry you we're there... This one would have been a good learning experience for you. It was actually set up and coordinated by the leader of another Pro Demo team... His sponsored team had commitments in another state, so he contacted be about putting something together... I supplied 1/2 the talent, and the gear. He did everything else... A very well run show...a prime example of dotting all the " I's " and crossing all the " T's ". While walking back through the crowd, carrying the gear, from our LZ... I was stopped by some local jumpers and queried about something I did during the performance. In the hope of sparking some related discussion, let me ask you your thoughts...what you may have done. Four jumpers; 1 on a U.S. Flag, 1 on a Texas State Flag, 2 of us on 'Candycane Smokes' The smoke guys exit 1&2...the flags 3&4...all on the same pass, 4500' agl exit. Plan was to hop 'n pop...deploy smokes at 3000' and spin them down, putting us on the ground well before the flags. (focus attention on them for the National Anthem.) Unfortunately my 'trusty steed' chose this day to be a bit lethargic... I pulled after a short delay, about 3800' and sniveled down to about 1800'... Canopy opened, I deployed the smoke, landed safely. I was questioned / chastised about not cutting away higher by a couple of obviously knowledgeable skydivers... This in front of a large group of wuffos seeking pictures, autographs, and a handshake. Pop Quiz: What would you have done, Cut Away? How would you have handled the rather RUDE interrogation by other jumpers in front of wuffos? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #49 July 6, 2003 Cut away? Well, if it is trying to open and you're still above your hard-deck, then why? My personal hard deck is 1500ft. If that would have happened to me, I probably would have had my hands on the handles... The jumpers infront of whuffos? Tell them that right now is NOT the appropiate time or place to hold this conversation and offer to join them for some drinks later to discuss. People need to remember that each and everyone of us ARE the embassaders of our sport to whuffos around us. If they know that you jump, then their idea of the sport (in its real form, not the movie/real TV form) is from you the jumper.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #50 July 6, 2003 Jim, No one but you new the situation. We can all say we would to this or that but until you are the one with his ass on the line you can't say what you would do. You know your canopy and your abilities, sounds like you did the right thing. The jumpers sound like they were running their mouth to let everyone around know that they were jumpers too. To many jumpers do not understand that a demo in not just another skydive. I'll bet you dazzled the crowd. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
nightjumps 1 #47 July 2, 2003 Dave, I got mine and have a couple of cents to add. First, If Aggie stadium causes you conern, you might want to carefully think about which canopy you get qualified on. Your PRO card will state the minimum size canopy you can use. The earlier advise of using a canopy with a good "sink" rate is excellent. There will be more times than not that you will have to "sink" it in. They are all tight. Another thing to consider is other folks on your team and what they are or are not comfortable with. Personlly, I stay away from the flag and CReW if I can avoid it. However, I have no problems with smoke and close formation flying with smoke, whereas others do. There are some hidden costs involved with the PRO rating. One of the costs incurred is in having a demo rig to stay up on your skills. While I can use my Safire2 for most High School and community event demo's, my personal preference for closed stadium jumps is a Falcon 300 (I'm 255 out the door). An opportunity cost is the time to recon the DZ and ground support. You could be at the DZ doing tandems rather than reconning, so you've lost income plus spent gas money, etc. In addiiton, your ground crew needs to be able to be assertive in moving the crowd in accordance with the minimum fy-over/nears that need to be maintained. Nothing is more unnerving than to get the OK to jump, be under canopy and see that the crowd has boxed in the landing area and complexed your approach cause your ground crew wasn't assertive. There is a considerable amount of research in keeping up with the paperwork if you're doing demos where there is over "X" number of attendees (an ever-changing number) If you need demo liability insurance.... it is expensive. I "believe" the last quote I got was $400.00 per person per event. If the proprietor of the event needs/wants that insurance, you'll have to factor in the time to submit and costs. Ground-to-air communications is a cost. Some folks are OK with visuals (panels=cost) and such for "Go - No/Go decisions. Both visual and radio is best(radios=cost). Pilots usually charge more for demos AND there is more fuel required since most times you have a specific "Time on Target" where you have X number of minutes before the game starts or have the football on the ground, which means being over the target doing racetracks before the "Go." In short, it is better to take get some proactive assistance in getting your PRO rating than filling out the card and learning as you go and losing money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #48 July 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteGot one into downtown Houston On the 4th of July... If you want I'll see if they are needing anyone to groundcrew !? I would LOVE to do that! I need to talk to my boss to see what's the deal that day. Being a holiday we may have quite a few tandems, if that's the case, then I can't do it, I have to jump the tandems. I'll be in touch abou it. Thank you for the offer! Dave- We did our demo into downtown Houston Friday evening... Sorry you we're there... This one would have been a good learning experience for you. It was actually set up and coordinated by the leader of another Pro Demo team... His sponsored team had commitments in another state, so he contacted be about putting something together... I supplied 1/2 the talent, and the gear. He did everything else... A very well run show...a prime example of dotting all the " I's " and crossing all the " T's ". While walking back through the crowd, carrying the gear, from our LZ... I was stopped by some local jumpers and queried about something I did during the performance. In the hope of sparking some related discussion, let me ask you your thoughts...what you may have done. Four jumpers; 1 on a U.S. Flag, 1 on a Texas State Flag, 2 of us on 'Candycane Smokes' The smoke guys exit 1&2...the flags 3&4...all on the same pass, 4500' agl exit. Plan was to hop 'n pop...deploy smokes at 3000' and spin them down, putting us on the ground well before the flags. (focus attention on them for the National Anthem.) Unfortunately my 'trusty steed' chose this day to be a bit lethargic... I pulled after a short delay, about 3800' and sniveled down to about 1800'... Canopy opened, I deployed the smoke, landed safely. I was questioned / chastised about not cutting away higher by a couple of obviously knowledgeable skydivers... This in front of a large group of wuffos seeking pictures, autographs, and a handshake. Pop Quiz: What would you have done, Cut Away? How would you have handled the rather RUDE interrogation by other jumpers in front of wuffos? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #49 July 6, 2003 Cut away? Well, if it is trying to open and you're still above your hard-deck, then why? My personal hard deck is 1500ft. If that would have happened to me, I probably would have had my hands on the handles... The jumpers infront of whuffos? Tell them that right now is NOT the appropiate time or place to hold this conversation and offer to join them for some drinks later to discuss. People need to remember that each and everyone of us ARE the embassaders of our sport to whuffos around us. If they know that you jump, then their idea of the sport (in its real form, not the movie/real TV form) is from you the jumper.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #50 July 6, 2003 Jim, No one but you new the situation. We can all say we would to this or that but until you are the one with his ass on the line you can't say what you would do. You know your canopy and your abilities, sounds like you did the right thing. The jumpers sound like they were running their mouth to let everyone around know that they were jumpers too. To many jumpers do not understand that a demo in not just another skydive. I'll bet you dazzled the crowd. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
