lowbie says she don't need no steenking cypress...

[tbrown 26]

There are already people who are retiring their first Cypres, as it hits the 12 yr age limit. Their Cypres has never fired once in the whole 12 yrs. And they're getting a new one to replace it.

I don't think I NEED a Cypres, I've made over 500 jumps without one. I never RELY on a Cypres. But I think they're a great device with a good track record for saving lives. I won't ever need one - until that one jump when I'll need it, whether I've blacked out or just fucked up. Besides, in the old days I was single, I've got a family now. They're glad I use one.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[nightjumps 1]

Personally, I would rather own a Cypres and never need it, than to not own one and need it.

[ZoneRat 0]

Amortise the cost of a cypress over the life span of the product and it's the cheapest "insurance" you can get.

(Well... keeping good tires on your car is probably the cheapest, but an AAD is a close second).

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[BlackholeSon 0]

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I've been on jumps where I was very glad I did NOT have one.

Can you explain please? Thanks.

Was it a situation where if you had done something differently a cypress would not have functioned properly, putting you and/or others in jeopardy?

----------
Here's to cheating, stealing, fighting, and drinking. If you cheat, cheat death. If you steal, steal a woman's heart. If you fight, fight for a brother. If you drink, drink with me.

[hookitt 0]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say it was on a big way, where it seemed safer to take it into the basement, than pull into the masses of bodies above ... that weren't pulling.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[billvon 2,400]

>Can you explain please?

One dive where I had to take it to around 1200 to avoid someone above me (a big way.) Another dive where four of us did something stupid and broke off a 4-way at 2000 feet. I had my rig without the cypres (mainly because it had the faster opening main) and Amy had turned her cypres off. We were both fine. Lutz and Mad John both had cypres firings. Mad John chopped his main and had a main/reserve entanglement (reserve was towing the main) but landed without serious injury.

Interestingly, Lutz was a current AFF-JM. I had asked him earlier in the day what he would do if he ever found himself at 1200 feet in freefall. He said he'd pull his reserve, then pantomined doing it. And he couldn't make himself pull his reserve when he got low - his instinct to go for the main was too strong. That's why I think it's a good idea that people with a cypres get CRW training, because if you do get low, you're gonna go for your main no matter what you tell yourself.

[alan 1]

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so bill von
im guessing your 1 of the people who are to good for a cypress ?

If you had been around these forum for any lentgh of time, you would certainly realize how far off base your assesment of billvon is. He is one of the most knowledgeable and experienced posters on these forums. He simply provided unbieased and insightful observstions that can be supported. He does use a Cypres.

alan

[cesslon 0]

my comments wernt meant to be degrading
but poeple like that woman could read comments on here and take them the wrong way
i said what i said hopeing for a more detailed answer
i probably didnt ask the correct way though lol
but i never meant it in a way disrespecting bill von

and thankfully "Shark" PM'd me telling me reasons of when a cypress can be more harm then good

which is less ocassions then when they should be used

[Ron 7]

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so bill von
im guessing your 1 of the people who are to good for a cypress ?

No he understands that most people "saved" by a CYPRES just flat out screwed up.

Its uncool to say "I'm getting a CYPRESS in case I do something stupid that should have killed me."

It's much cooler to say you are getting it incase SOMEONE ELSE screws up and kills you.

But the simple fact is that there have been very few CYPRES saves for someone getting knocked out by someone else.

I have a CYPRES in case I do something stupid. I don't lie to myself.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[fudd 0]

Well, we tried a new exit from an AN-28 tailgate, and i knocked my forehead in the side of the plane. Almost got knocked unconscious. Closest I've ever been to need my cypres.
Oh, and I have about 200 jumps. I hope I don't get that close again.

Not having one because you KNOW you never not going to pull is bullshit and unrealistic. Plain stupid actually.

Not having one because you accept and understand the risc is fine.

Skydiving is risc management. If you ignore the riscs, you can't manage them.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[pds 0]

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3. I may have a gear failure that prevents me from getting my reserve out. I've seen riggers pack people 50lb pulls on reserve ripcords. Could I get such a ripcord out? Probably, but again, you never know.

bingo.

us macho men have a much better survival rate on hard reserve pulls than 5'4" 120lb women with less upper body strength. although elizabeth went in due to an 'impossible' reserve pull, the sheer volume of failures on that jump seem to prevent me from using her situation as an example. perhaps i need to get past that.

the person in question has 30 jumps in just over a year of jumping. to hear her say that she has never heard of a cypress saving anyone but has heard of premature firing leaves me at a loss. and i do not wear one either. hmmmmm...... no easy answers.

namaste, motherfucker.

[billvon 2,400]

> to hear her say that she has never heard of a cypress saving
>anyone but has heard of premature firing leaves me at a loss.

I'm not too suprised at that. Many people consider a cypres that fires at 700 feet after they pull at 900 feet to be a premature firing, and they are far more common than true saves (i.e. the jumper does not pull and the cypres saves him.)

[kallend 1,625]

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I have a CYPRES in case I do something stupid. I don't lie to myself.

Me too.

I am old enought to realize that all people (myself included) screw up a lot more than they care to admit. I didn't think that way when I was 25 and indestructible.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,123]

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I have a CYPRES in case I do something stupid. I don't lie to myself.

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Me too.

Me three.

I started jumping when AAD's were called AOD's (automatic opening), and were only really common on the first couple of freefalls, because the club only had one AOD'd rig.

I'd jump without one in a heartbeat, but I'm not too proud to admit that the cypres is more likely to save me from being stupid than from someone else being stupid.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ron 7]

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Well, we tried a new exit from an AN-28 tailgate, and i knocked my forehead in the side of the plane. Almost got knocked unconscious

Ypu didn't get knocked out, and you really don't know if you were close or not. I have been knocked out (kickboxing & boxing when I had to spar a heavyweight which I am not) And when I did get knocked out (Twice) I had no idea what the hell happened. One minute Im standing...the next Im waking up.

But my point is simply that eveyone uses the "I have one in case I am knocked out"...but if you look at the CYPRES saves...VERY few are people who were knocked out....Most just did something stupid.

Im human, so I know I can screw up...I have one in case I do. But I will also jump without one, and I don't do jumps I would not do without it if I have one.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Shark 0]

The bottomline is that it would probably save your life if you lose altitude awareness.
How much altitude awareness would you have if you were unconscious?

[AndyMan 7]

People do get knocked out in freefall. I witnessed this about a year ago in Perris. My posting about it is here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=340256

Unfortunately ftp.skydivingmovies.com is down, so you can't download the video.

It is very compelling "get a cypres" footage.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[benny 0]

I've only had two jumps, 1 tandem, 1 AFF, but I don't think I'll ever jump out of an airplane without a cypres in my rig. Just seems nuts to me, shit happens, why not take as much risk as possible out of the equation? I mean, we are jumping out of aircraft after all...

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[billvon 2,400]

>Just seems nuts to me, shit happens, why not take as much risk as
>possible out of the equation?

Nothing wrong with that approach. What bugs me are people who buy a Sabre2 120 at 50 jumps because their friend has one, get a Tempo 135 because it will fit in a cool-looking small rig, then get a cypres "because they want to be safe." Which is like being a safer driver by putting on your seatbelt before driving home drunk.

I'm all for people being safer, but I worry that people have very skewed (i.e. wrong) views on real risks if they, for example, get a smaller reserve so they can fit a cypres in their rig.

[Ron 7]

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People do get knocked out in freefall

Yes, but if you look at the CYPRES saves page...(I don't have it bookmarked I am out of town working)
you will see that most "saves" are just errors on the part of the jumper...And that they were not knocked out.

But its uncool to admit that you might screw up, so people latch on to the knocked out story.

Yes it does happen, but MOST saves are from a person just screwing up

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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The bottomline is that it would probably save your life if you lose altitude awareness.

Yep, but admit thats why you got it...Not the old story that you are afraid the "other guy" is going to knock you out.

I have no problem with them...

I have a problem with peoples attitudes about them..And people relying on them.

If you can admit that you have it incase you screw up...I don't have a problem.

But the simple fact is that most say its to save them from the other guy...And the facts show that MOST saves the guy was awake, and just screwed up.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Kramer 0]

I remember reading on these forums once about a guy who hit his head on the plane when he exited. He woke up in a tree a halfhour later. No AAD...he'd be dead.

His story is here. Maybe if you shared it with your friend it might make them think twice about not wanting a CYPRES.

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[Shark 0]

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But the simple fact is that most say its to save them from the other guy...And the facts show that MOST saves the guy was awake, and just screwed up.

May be we have to do a better job as instructors. I cover it in my FJC, and discuss it further throughout a students training; both the AAD and the RSL.

[DutchSkyCam 0]

I Have been in the sport for 12 Years and have only witnessed two Cypres activations. Both of em were jumper stupidity (Altitude awareness)

But I have lost two friends in skydiving. I was not present at either accident, but at least one, possibly both would have been saved by a Cypres.

I jumped without a Cypres from jump #1000 to Jump#1800. Never worried about it. But things could happen... Also because I jump a lot with low-time jumpers.
The DZO on the Dropzone I work insisted that I jump with a Cypress (He even paid part of it) so I installed one. At least I am setting a good example.

Barry.

[faulknerwn 36]

The question was - why not take as much risk as possible out of the equation? Are you always going to jump a student canopy? Helmet? No RW, no freefly, no CRW? After all its about making it safe right?

I own a Toyota Corolla. Its got front airbags and seat belts but that's about it. I could have bought a vehicle with front air bags, side air bags, anti-lock brakes, extra-expensive tires, and a bunch of other stuff to lessen my risk. But it probably would have doubled the cost of the car. I chose to take the risk and buy a car with less expensive stuff but that was within my price range.

Not one of my 4 rigs cost me more than $2000 total. A Cypres for each of them would be $1200 each. That's over half the cost of what I paid for the rig. $4800 is a lot of money for what is probably a 1/50,000 chance (if its that high) that I'll be knocked unconscious. I've got 3400 jumps and 14 reserve rides - I'm pretty good at keeping situational awareness. I'm really not that worried that I'll forget to pull. I probably will buy a Cypres at some point (I used to jump with one for a good while) and put it in one of my rigs, but if I find myself choosing that rig purely because its the one with the Cypres, i'm going to take a good hard look at what I plan to be doing on that dive.

Its insurance. Its expensive insurance. They save lives - the vast majority of which are people being stupid. I might be stupid someday and need one, but for me right now, I just don't see the risk as being great enough for me to spend the money. I also choose not to drive a Hummer - even though I'm probably a hell of a lot less likely to get killed in one than my Corolla. I know I'm an awful lot more likely to get killed on my Cobalt 75 than ever needing a Cypres - a small mistake flying that canopy could easily kill me - but I choose to jump it anyway. Its all about risk management. Some people have different levels of risk than others. I have no objections to anyone jumping with a Cypres. Their view of risk is just different than mine. Just like a whuffo's view of risks is different than ours.

There are a lot of people out there now jumping sub-100 square foot canopies. Look at the incident reports - how many people jumping those sorts of canopies are dying from not pulling (or being saved by a Cypres) versus how many die under a perfectly good canopy? But thousands of people choose to take the risk of the canopy. That's their choice. Its their own comfort level of risk.

W