Freefliers: Do you check your alti during the jump?

[ernokaikkonen 0]

I was talking to a jumper(with a couple of hundred jumps) who is starting to get into freeflying and he seemed to think that not using your visual altimeter on a freeflying jump is a common practice and an acceptable one at that.

So what do you do?

[WrongWay 0]

Honestly it depends on the dive. I really try to make an effort to, and will usually check it when it seems like we've been in the dive a while and it's getting close to "that time", but I'm guilty of sometimes not, which isn't good in my opinion. Audibles are good, but they're mechanical/electrical, and therefore can fail. Also, sometimes you won't hear your audible, so what do you do then? You go low. It's better safe than sorry.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[OzoneJunkie 0]

I check my visual alti sometimes. I wrote a freefly tip about how setting your alti higher for break off can be a good thing, if yer interested:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=962770;search_string=Tip;#962770

[CanuckInUSA 0]

You left out a very important poll option and that is that while many of us do rely on our audibles, we also watch the horizon. Our internal clocks are working during these dives, but internal clocks aren't always accurate. But if you know what 5k looks like by looking at the horizon, then you're a step ahead of the dive.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[OzoneJunkie 0]

yep, extremely good point. Horizon is key ;)

[NeedToJump 0]

I check my visual altimeter on every jump. I also check the horizon and use my internal clock.

A friend of mine almost went in for replying on an audible. Both jumpers had an audible but for some reason neither one went off and neither jumper checked their alti. They were very involved in the dive and weren't paying much attention to the horizon or anything else. I don't recall exactly how it heppend, but they ended up pulling at just under 1000 feet (and went straight to main because it is more natural than going to reserve.)

Both jumpers are very experienced with more than 2000 jumps each.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[garef001 0]

i check it, have a neptune too, but still check it 2 to 3 times on the way down.

Thanasi

[riddler 0]

It's a very acceptable practice, from what I've seen. It may not be right, but it seems acceptable. I think that's because just about everyone does it.

Personally, I check altitude often. Sometimes I lose control because of it, but I would rather cork than go low. Corking is only dangerous if others are above or below you, or too close to you when you obviously don't have the skill to be doing that. As a freeflyer, you should know your limitations, and not get into one of these situations.

Sitflying is easier - I can look between my legs and get an idea of what my alititude is without losing my sit. I can't look at the ground when I'm headdown (maybe I should do more Yoga?)

It doesn't make sense to me to rely on the "internal clock". It's not very reliable. If you get out 2,000 feet lower due to clouds, spend a little time sitting (140 MPH), transition to headdown (160 MPH), and cork once on accident (120 MPH), will the internal clock give you a good measurement of how high you are? Probably not.

Ideally, I would want to use this order:

1. Looking at the ground. (sitting or belly)
2. Mechanical altimeter.
3. Audible altimeter.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[EricaH 0]

I use to count on an audible ditter, but then unbeknownst to me it died & I had a really low pull - right @ cypress arming point.

Stupid I know - please no one rheam me, I've learned.

NOW I'm almost paranoid about looking @ my alti. I have it pulled so tight on my wrist so it stays in place that my hand almost tingles on landing. My typical jump partner has even told me to maybe check just a tad less and HE'S the one that yelled @ me the most.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[bmcd308 0]

AS someone who is "starting to get into freeflying" I think he is making a bad choice. Freeflying gives different visual and timing cues than belly.

We should all be able to jump without a visual altimeter and pull at approximately the approprite altitude. The world is not that perfect, so we use devices to back us up. But when we are starting out, we have no library of visual cues to tell us where certain altitudes are, so a visual altimeter is important.

Keep in mind that a broken audible at pull altitude sounds just like a functioning audible when you still have plenty of time - i.e. both are silent. If your broken audible is telling you that you still have plenty of time and it is all you've got, you're going to make Ron type in all caps.

Brent

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[Vertifly 0]

It is more instict at this point. But yeah, I check when I know it needs to be checked. Just kinda like that. Yah know?

[mrhoop 0]

I usually check my visi when I feel that im nearing break-off altitude. I should check more often. Bad habits.

[riddler 0]

Quote

But if you know what 5k looks like by looking at the horizon

Steve - I'm curious about this. Does this really work? Seems like it might, considering that's what we tell students to do when landing.

How close to 5,000 do you think you can judge? +/- 500? +/- 1000? Do you really think it's completely visual, or do you think it's partly internal clock as well as visual?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

How close to 5,000 do you think you can judge? +/- 500? +/- 1000? Do you really think it's completely visual, or do you think it's partly internal clock as well as visual?

Being able to judge the horizon isn't something which happens overnight and it's questionable as to whether or not I have jumped enough to known what 5k really looks like. But I have a pretty good idea and I'm sure I'm no more than +/- 500 feet off (maybe I should dedicate a slew of jumps to horizon altitude recognition to be sure). But I would also believe that the internal clock is also a factor. Basically if your clock is blaring away (it's time to break off) and the sight picture of the horizon looks like it has jump after jump, well then it's time to break off. Likewise, if your horizon altitude picture tells you that it's time, then check your altitude and get ready to do something (like track like a MFer).

In all honesty (I did several freefly jumps last weekend without an audible), and freefliers tend to rely on each other for signs of when to break off. The key to when to break off is the question though. Obviously when jumping with others with audibles, we tend to break off at roughly the same times. But when nobody is relying on audibles, then we must rely on our own internal clocks + horizon sight pictures and never ever suck it low just because the freefall aspects of the jump are going well.

One other point. I'm not sure how much this helps identify horizon sight pictures, but flying video and watching the video afterwards of the jumps likely helps recognize the horizon sight picture of normal break off altitudes (using audibles).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[yardhippie 0]

Sometimes, more toward the end of the dive than in the beginning. My personal breakoff alti is 5000' for freefly dives. My "internal" clock usually tells me when its time to start checkin my visual, and my audible tells me its time to go, and I go w/o checkin visually. Also, the "picture" you get in freefall changes w/ altitude. This is in no way a suggestion for someone new to freeflying (BTW, I am still new to freeflying at 350 some odd freefly jumps)
When I was beginning, I was always checkin my alti, which doubles as a good drill for keepin body position, fall rate, etc.
my .02!

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[cocheese 0]

Audibles.... sort of like the snooze button on your alarm clock, you hate to have to rely on it to wake up , but it's so nice to get that last moment of peace before having to go to work. bzzzzzz time to get up .. (Say bye).track.... bzzzzzz. (time to pull) BZZZZZZ!!!!!!BZZZZ !!BZZZZZZ "hey dude i said get up!" you are going to be late for that job interview !!!"
For freeflying I set 1st beep at 5,500. i wave off and split at 5000. sometimes a little lower.
2nd beep is at 3,500 which i verify with my wrist mount and pull. I try to have a hand on the hackie before the 3,500 beep. then throw at the beep or before if i'm last out. If i'm the only one around, might as well pull a little higher.
Last beep set for 2500 . it's screamin so i hate hearing that one. Yea i hear it sometimes when ya just have to go little lower for seperation or whatever.But it's usually because of a slow opening when i hear it. setting it lower seems like a waste of precious time. If i'm not on it by then i deserve to get screamed at. "WAKE the F@Q up ! " and pull.
I am guilty of not checkin enough and i admire someone when i see them check it during the middle of the dive. It's a good sign they are altitude aware and not relying on a computer.

[chopchop 0]

I think the more you jump the better your internal clock. I have a friend that jumps with neither mechanical or audible.. He is out of there at 4.5 on the button every time whether belly, hd, hybrid, or sit.. an awesome swooper to boot. That was at about 2,700 jumps. I know mine is getting better but is not near as solid as his.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[MochaSkyChick 0]

I personally always try to keep an eye on my visual alti cause I don't feel right relying on my Pro-Track only.

PMS #62
Zarza R[red