Merrick 0 #51 April 15, 2004 QuoteAnd finally, NO you should not sue. You are jumping out of airplanes. You know the risks. You teach the risks as you say you are an instructer. You know your gear can fail from unforseen events. Skydiving is risky and we all accept that risk to get the reward from skydiving. Not singling you out dd, but this just seems to be the general consensus. Why is it that what is considered acceptable in all other aspects of life, isn’t in our community, just because we’re all skydivers?! Who are we trying to protect, our sport, the manufacturer….? We’re all (or most all) drivers too, driving is pretty much a necessity. What if you were driving a Ford Explorer a few years ago and the bead on your Firestones broke causing you to roll your vehicle breaking your back. I believe it was a series of lawsuits that prompted the recall. Or, how about the Rambler that used to have problems with the gas tank exploding in crashes (acceptable levels of risk)? These are obvious manufacturer defects, that resulted in several deaths and serious injuries. I’m not trying to promote suing anybody (business or personal), but if you can prove without a doubt that it was indeed a “faulty” cutaway system due to a manufacturer defect, I would certainly want to know what gear it was, and I would expect something to be done to correct the problem. Like I said, I’m not advocating it, especially if it is a problem the manufacturer isn’t aware of, but on the other hand if my life or, more importantly, the life of any of my loved ones was seriously jeopardized, I would seriously be pissed off! I know there are hundreds of other variables to consider, body-position, correct emergency procedures, currency.. etc, but if you can prove negligence you might have a case, regardless of the warnings, any waivers, or knowledge of risk. This has come up many times before, jumpers suing other jumpers, jumpers suing manufacturers, jumpers suing DZ’s… etc, and I know that as members supporting a small community we feel it’s our duty to stand up and shout how wrong it is, but the bottom line is that people are in control of everything we do and use, and people make mistakes (sometimes resulting in serious problems). It’s when we discover that those mistakes are actually negligence, that I have a problem with. Not saying that’s the case here, but anything’s possible….. flame on. Wish your wife luck with her recovery. Blues! Merrick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #52 April 15, 2004 Another vote against suing. If you cannot explain the sequence of events to this knowledgeable audience, you have a snowball's chance in hell of convincing a judge. Finally, any new manufacturer is going to be deeply in debt for its first few years. If you sue them, you will only force them into bankruptcy, eliminating any chance of getting any money out of them (just like Fliteline). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #53 April 15, 2004 Quotepeople make mistakes This is the key point here. Under common law negligence (Lousiana may be different) you've gotta prove a mistake. Usually, you must show 4 things: 1) That the manufacturer had some duty to your wife 2) That the manufacturer breached that duty 3) That the breach of the duty was the cause of any damages, and 4) That your wife suffered damages. 1 is pretty easy. The manufacturer has a duty to manufacture something in a reasonably safe manner. 4 is easy as well - a broken back. You seem to have a problem with 2 and 3. You don't know whether the manufacturer has done anything wrong. If the manufacturer did anything wrong, you don't know whether it was the cause of the problem. Just because something bad happens does not mean somebody did something wrong. Doctors kill people all the time in surgery. It doesn't mean that they did anything wrong. They can do everythign right and people will still die. Same thing here. Maybe the manufacturer DID do something wrong. For example, you may prove that there was a faulty manufacture of the leg straps. But, since that has nothing to do with this incident, so what? I'd recommend that you do not sue until you know: (1) exactly what happened; and (b) you know what exactly went wrong; (3) whether the manufacturer did something wrong (i.e., unreasonable); and (4) whether the breach in duty was what caused the damages. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #54 April 15, 2004 Thanks for all your prompt feedback/opinions/views, I appreciate it! I have all the info/answers I originally asked for, so I have nothing else to add. Thanks again... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #55 April 15, 2004 QuoteThanks for all your prompt feedback/opinions/views, I appreciate it! I have all the info/answers I originally asked for, so I have nothing else to add. Thanks again... Too bad you still havent given any details of the incident so that we can make sure it doesnt happen again....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,436 #56 April 15, 2004 >Why is it that what is considered acceptable in all other aspects of >life, isn’t in our community, just because we’re all skydivers?! It's not acceptable to me in other parts of my life. Whether I get hurt because I bought a topheavy vehicle and rolled it, or because I bought crappy bindings for my skis, or because I wanted to buy the cheap bike helmet, I take responsibility for my decisions. About the only time I would sue someone is if it's a situation where someone else is intentionally injuring me and other remedies fail - like my neighbor is dumping chemicals over the fence into my yard. >It’s when we discover that those mistakes are actually negligence, > that I have a problem with. Not saying that’s the case here, but > anything’s possible. I'm sure you know this already, but you signed a waiver that says you are OK with other people being negligent. If you're not OK with it you shouldn't have signed the waiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #57 April 15, 2004 I bet he sues. He only listened to what he wanted to hear. Sad.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #58 April 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteThanks for all your prompt feedback/opinions/views, I appreciate it! I have all the info/answers I originally asked for, so I have nothing else to add. Thanks again... Too bad you still havent given any details of the incident so that we can make sure it doesnt happen again.... See my post. He probably doesn't know what happened. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #59 April 15, 2004 QuoteThe manufacturer has a duty to manufacture something in a reasonably safe manner. If you read the owner's manual carefully you'll find a statement much like the following, which was copied from PD's owner's manual. QuoteDisclaimer - No Warranty Because of the unavoidable danger associated with the use of this parachute, the manufacturer makes no warranty, either express or implied. It is sold with all faults and without any warranty of fitness for any purpose. The manufacturer also disclaims any liability in tort for damages, direct or consequential, including personal injuries resulting from a detect in design, material or workmanship or manufacturing whether caused by negligence on the part of the manufacturer or otherwise. By using this parachute assembly, or allowing it to be used by others, the user waives any liability of the manufacturer for personal injuries or other damages arising from such use. If the buyer declines to waive liability on the part of the manufacturer. The buyer may obtain a full refund of the purchase price by returning the parachute before it is used to the manufacturer within 15 days from the date of the original purchase with a letter stating why it was returned. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not capable of arguing whether that statement has any legal force. Personally I don't care if I'd have a legal right to sue or not. I choose to jump out of airplanes therefore I assume any and all risks involved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #60 April 15, 2004 QuotePersonally I don't care if I'd have a legal right to sue or not. I choose to jump out of airplanes therefore I assume any and all risks involved. Hear hear.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thanatos340 1 #61 April 15, 2004 You may have all the answers you were looking for, but the rest of us are now left with lots of Questions that you have avoided and sidestepped. You implied that there a problem with the new rig your wife was jumping that the manufacturer was somehow responsible for. Please give the details of the problem and what you think cause these problems. If there was an Equipment problem that manufacturer was responsible for, those jumping the same equipment should be informed so that they can learn how they may be able to avoid a similar accident or if there is something that they should have checked out before they continue jumping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dubbayab 0 #62 April 15, 2004 Well then I guess you lose your bet... I gave a little info about what happened as an intro to my question on wherther or not "you" ( other jumpers ) would sue. I have read and taken in everything that everyone has written... learning that most would NOT. For the record... I know everything that happened for the most part, with just a few questions, but choose to be vague in my post. (since the real question was about the skydivers' views on sueing...) Maybe I should've just released a poll, maybe it's already been polled... But regurdless I started this Discussion and now I am ending it. Once again thank you for all your OPINIONS and feedback.... I did listen and I do appreciate it! Blue Skies... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #63 April 15, 2004 I don't think he should sue. Legally, I think that there are serious problems with attempting it. Morally, I think that suing an equipment manufacturer - in most events - is equivalent to suing a stoplight manufacturer for failing to prevent the drunk from running a red light amd t-boning you. Often, it is simply up to the judge whether the disclaimer will stand. It certainly is something that can sway a jury, too. Also, there is rarely a waiver of a "right to sue." It's a right to recover. As I explained, the statement will operate as a defense, i.e., "She knew the risks, we told of the risks, we offered way to back out and get a full refund, and she didn't take it." This can bite a person hard. It means there is a good chance that you will not recover, even with a solid case, and what's the point of suing if you can't get anything, anyway? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #64 April 15, 2004 QuoteI know everything that happened for the most part, with just a few questions, but choose to be vague in my post. (since the real question was about the skydivers' views on sueing...) Thanks for that. Really helpfull to your fellow jumper. If I hadent turned green a few months back, I think a mod would have to remove the post I want to make here.... dam this setting a good exemple...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dubbayab 0 #65 April 15, 2004 Thank you, I'm not going to sue, had already made my mind up. Like I said, was curious into others' views on sueing...Thanks for all the replys and insight towards that quetion. And I do appreciate "your 2 cents." Thanks, WB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #66 April 15, 2004 QuoteWell then I guess you lose your bet... I gave a little info about what happened as an intro to my question on wherther or not "you" ( other jumpers ) would sue. I have read and taken in everything that everyone has written... learning that most would NOT. For the record... I know everything that happened for the most part, with just a few questions, but choose to be vague in my post. (since the real question was about the skydivers' views on sueing...) Maybe I should've just released a poll, maybe it's already been polled... But regurdless I started this Discussion and now I am ending it. Once again thank you for all your OPINIONS and feedback.... I did listen and I do appreciate it! Blue Skies... Good intentions or not, I think that it is doing a disservice to the skydiving community to hold back the information regarding this incident. I am with the others who feel that this is something that shouldn't be let out of this discussion.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #67 April 15, 2004 Quote... I'm not going to sue, had already made my mind up... first, this is a contradiction to your original posting where you were trying to decide whether or not to sue. second, clue us in!!! if your problem is legit, do you really want that to happen to one of us??? that'd be real nice. you got our attention.... now what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #68 April 15, 2004 At the very least, contact the manufacturer that may or may not be at fault and make sure they know what happened. If there's a problem and it's their fault, they will want to know about it. Any chance you could explain what went wrong without mentioning the brand? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dubbayab 0 #69 April 15, 2004 There is no "contradiction," weegirl.... after evaluating/re-evaluating/and listening to everyones' feedback... That's how I "made my mind up" as to not sue. There's nothing to sue over, from what I gathered. That is no dis-service to you, or others, b/c there is nothing to "leaglly sue over." Repeat: after evaluating info I already had, re-evaluating what I know and what others have VERY RECENTLY advised me, and lastly by the answers I received in this post, there is nothing to sue over. Have peace of mind. Thank you I'm sorry if my post was misleading or not as clear as I had intended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites USPA 0 #70 April 15, 2004 This is what amazes me. In The Netherlands EVERYONE has health insurance. Hell, it is even a crime not to have it. Is it so rare over there to have health insurance?The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #71 April 15, 2004 Good post Merrick. And to some extent I agree with you. Let's take the Firestone tire issue. Yes, the tired seemed defective but how many tires were on the road? The press made a big deal about the tires blowing. But what about the top heavy SUV playing a role in the crash. How about the speeding DRIVER who had more potential force built up to cause a rollover if a blowout occured. There is blame to go around. I had a blowout at 65 MPH in my 1976 Delta 88. I didn't roll over. Why? Anyhow, if the rig was assembled improperly and this person did not personally inspect her gear (even though she's an instructor) then I can't hold the manufacturer totally responsible. I know skydivers who have misrigged their own 3 ring a way that would cause an impossible cutaway. Is that Bill Booth's fault for designing a 3 ring system that can be assembled incorrectly no matter how bad it's built by the subcontractor? No. I don't think so. Really, we don't have enough info in this situation to really make judgements but on the surface from what I've seen I'd say no sue. More info might change my mind. But it will take a lot.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Merrick 0 #72 April 15, 2004 QuoteIt's not acceptable to me in other parts of my life. Whether I get hurt because I bought a topheavy vehicle and rolled it, or because I bought crappy bindings for my skis, or because I wanted to buy the cheap bike helmet, I take responsibility for my decisions. Good on ya, I actually agree. I was just trying to point out that the majority of this great nation is very "sue happy," and I honestly thought some of the responses were from a mindset of a skydiver. That they might have been different if posed in a different situation. QuoteAbout the only time I would sue someone is if it's a situation where someone else is intentionally injuring me and other remedies fail Agree with that too, if a good-ol ass whippin' can't solve the problem it's time to take other measures. QuoteI'm sure you know this already, but you signed a waiver that says you are OK with other people being negligent. If you're not OK with it you shouldn't have signed the waiver. Yes I did, and I accept that. But, in the certain circumstances a waiver doesn't mean much. How many students have already sued and won, regardless of the waiver. How many doctors have been sued by patients whose life they just saved... I'm sure the list goes on. In this particular case, I'm sure it would be hard to prove all of Lawrocket's 1)2)3)and4) points. I was mainly trying to get everyone to take the Gatorz (read: skydiving blinders ) off. Blues! Merrick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #73 April 15, 2004 You have done your fellow skydivers an absolute disservice here! If, as you say you are not going to sue the mystery manufacturer, their is no reason NOT to give US the full story behind this incident! We feel the pain for your wife and may she make a complete and speedy recovery. How will you feel if someone else dies or is permanently paralyzed because you kept the facts to yourself? Proud? If there is a potentially problematic container issue you as a skydiver/instructor OWE it to us to explain the issue at hand. If I see that your container is a total just waiting to happen, it is my DUTY to inform you! If you so decide to jump it anyway, at least you do so willingly and informed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #74 April 15, 2004 QuoteThis is what amazes me. In The Netherlands EVERYONE has health insurance. Hell, it is even a crime not to have it. Is it so rare over there to have health insurance? To be able to afford health insurance in the US you need to either work for a company that offers it as a benefit or have a high enough income/low enough expenses to afford US$100 and up (I've seen it as high as US$400) per month in premiums. I know fewer people who do not have health insurance than I do people who do have health insurance. But it's not at all uncommon for someone making US$30k-ish or less per year to not be able to afford it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #75 April 15, 2004 What if you were driving a Ford Explorer a few years ago and the bead on your Firestones broke causing you to roll your vehicle breaking your back. Merrick, I had a Bronco II with Firestones on it and had a tire separate the tread at 85mph and didn't crash even though the Bronco II had a much higher c.o.g. than the Explorer, see I know how to drive and didn't panic. They intensionally blew out tires on the Explorers under all types of circumstances and never flipped a single one, although the tires were defective, it was driver error that rolled the vehicles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Remster 24 #55 April 15, 2004 QuoteThanks for all your prompt feedback/opinions/views, I appreciate it! I have all the info/answers I originally asked for, so I have nothing else to add. Thanks again... Too bad you still havent given any details of the incident so that we can make sure it doesnt happen again....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,436 #56 April 15, 2004 >Why is it that what is considered acceptable in all other aspects of >life, isn’t in our community, just because we’re all skydivers?! It's not acceptable to me in other parts of my life. Whether I get hurt because I bought a topheavy vehicle and rolled it, or because I bought crappy bindings for my skis, or because I wanted to buy the cheap bike helmet, I take responsibility for my decisions. About the only time I would sue someone is if it's a situation where someone else is intentionally injuring me and other remedies fail - like my neighbor is dumping chemicals over the fence into my yard. >It’s when we discover that those mistakes are actually negligence, > that I have a problem with. Not saying that’s the case here, but > anything’s possible. I'm sure you know this already, but you signed a waiver that says you are OK with other people being negligent. If you're not OK with it you shouldn't have signed the waiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #57 April 15, 2004 I bet he sues. He only listened to what he wanted to hear. Sad.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #58 April 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteThanks for all your prompt feedback/opinions/views, I appreciate it! I have all the info/answers I originally asked for, so I have nothing else to add. Thanks again... Too bad you still havent given any details of the incident so that we can make sure it doesnt happen again.... See my post. He probably doesn't know what happened. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #59 April 15, 2004 QuoteThe manufacturer has a duty to manufacture something in a reasonably safe manner. If you read the owner's manual carefully you'll find a statement much like the following, which was copied from PD's owner's manual. QuoteDisclaimer - No Warranty Because of the unavoidable danger associated with the use of this parachute, the manufacturer makes no warranty, either express or implied. It is sold with all faults and without any warranty of fitness for any purpose. The manufacturer also disclaims any liability in tort for damages, direct or consequential, including personal injuries resulting from a detect in design, material or workmanship or manufacturing whether caused by negligence on the part of the manufacturer or otherwise. By using this parachute assembly, or allowing it to be used by others, the user waives any liability of the manufacturer for personal injuries or other damages arising from such use. If the buyer declines to waive liability on the part of the manufacturer. The buyer may obtain a full refund of the purchase price by returning the parachute before it is used to the manufacturer within 15 days from the date of the original purchase with a letter stating why it was returned. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not capable of arguing whether that statement has any legal force. Personally I don't care if I'd have a legal right to sue or not. I choose to jump out of airplanes therefore I assume any and all risks involved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #60 April 15, 2004 QuotePersonally I don't care if I'd have a legal right to sue or not. I choose to jump out of airplanes therefore I assume any and all risks involved. Hear hear.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #61 April 15, 2004 You may have all the answers you were looking for, but the rest of us are now left with lots of Questions that you have avoided and sidestepped. You implied that there a problem with the new rig your wife was jumping that the manufacturer was somehow responsible for. Please give the details of the problem and what you think cause these problems. If there was an Equipment problem that manufacturer was responsible for, those jumping the same equipment should be informed so that they can learn how they may be able to avoid a similar accident or if there is something that they should have checked out before they continue jumping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #62 April 15, 2004 Well then I guess you lose your bet... I gave a little info about what happened as an intro to my question on wherther or not "you" ( other jumpers ) would sue. I have read and taken in everything that everyone has written... learning that most would NOT. For the record... I know everything that happened for the most part, with just a few questions, but choose to be vague in my post. (since the real question was about the skydivers' views on sueing...) Maybe I should've just released a poll, maybe it's already been polled... But regurdless I started this Discussion and now I am ending it. Once again thank you for all your OPINIONS and feedback.... I did listen and I do appreciate it! Blue Skies... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #63 April 15, 2004 I don't think he should sue. Legally, I think that there are serious problems with attempting it. Morally, I think that suing an equipment manufacturer - in most events - is equivalent to suing a stoplight manufacturer for failing to prevent the drunk from running a red light amd t-boning you. Often, it is simply up to the judge whether the disclaimer will stand. It certainly is something that can sway a jury, too. Also, there is rarely a waiver of a "right to sue." It's a right to recover. As I explained, the statement will operate as a defense, i.e., "She knew the risks, we told of the risks, we offered way to back out and get a full refund, and she didn't take it." This can bite a person hard. It means there is a good chance that you will not recover, even with a solid case, and what's the point of suing if you can't get anything, anyway? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #64 April 15, 2004 QuoteI know everything that happened for the most part, with just a few questions, but choose to be vague in my post. (since the real question was about the skydivers' views on sueing...) Thanks for that. Really helpfull to your fellow jumper. If I hadent turned green a few months back, I think a mod would have to remove the post I want to make here.... dam this setting a good exemple...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #65 April 15, 2004 Thank you, I'm not going to sue, had already made my mind up. Like I said, was curious into others' views on sueing...Thanks for all the replys and insight towards that quetion. And I do appreciate "your 2 cents." Thanks, WB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #66 April 15, 2004 QuoteWell then I guess you lose your bet... I gave a little info about what happened as an intro to my question on wherther or not "you" ( other jumpers ) would sue. I have read and taken in everything that everyone has written... learning that most would NOT. For the record... I know everything that happened for the most part, with just a few questions, but choose to be vague in my post. (since the real question was about the skydivers' views on sueing...) Maybe I should've just released a poll, maybe it's already been polled... But regurdless I started this Discussion and now I am ending it. Once again thank you for all your OPINIONS and feedback.... I did listen and I do appreciate it! Blue Skies... Good intentions or not, I think that it is doing a disservice to the skydiving community to hold back the information regarding this incident. I am with the others who feel that this is something that shouldn't be let out of this discussion.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #67 April 15, 2004 Quote... I'm not going to sue, had already made my mind up... first, this is a contradiction to your original posting where you were trying to decide whether or not to sue. second, clue us in!!! if your problem is legit, do you really want that to happen to one of us??? that'd be real nice. you got our attention.... now what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #68 April 15, 2004 At the very least, contact the manufacturer that may or may not be at fault and make sure they know what happened. If there's a problem and it's their fault, they will want to know about it. Any chance you could explain what went wrong without mentioning the brand? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #69 April 15, 2004 There is no "contradiction," weegirl.... after evaluating/re-evaluating/and listening to everyones' feedback... That's how I "made my mind up" as to not sue. There's nothing to sue over, from what I gathered. That is no dis-service to you, or others, b/c there is nothing to "leaglly sue over." Repeat: after evaluating info I already had, re-evaluating what I know and what others have VERY RECENTLY advised me, and lastly by the answers I received in this post, there is nothing to sue over. Have peace of mind. Thank you I'm sorry if my post was misleading or not as clear as I had intended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #70 April 15, 2004 This is what amazes me. In The Netherlands EVERYONE has health insurance. Hell, it is even a crime not to have it. Is it so rare over there to have health insurance?The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #71 April 15, 2004 Good post Merrick. And to some extent I agree with you. Let's take the Firestone tire issue. Yes, the tired seemed defective but how many tires were on the road? The press made a big deal about the tires blowing. But what about the top heavy SUV playing a role in the crash. How about the speeding DRIVER who had more potential force built up to cause a rollover if a blowout occured. There is blame to go around. I had a blowout at 65 MPH in my 1976 Delta 88. I didn't roll over. Why? Anyhow, if the rig was assembled improperly and this person did not personally inspect her gear (even though she's an instructor) then I can't hold the manufacturer totally responsible. I know skydivers who have misrigged their own 3 ring a way that would cause an impossible cutaway. Is that Bill Booth's fault for designing a 3 ring system that can be assembled incorrectly no matter how bad it's built by the subcontractor? No. I don't think so. Really, we don't have enough info in this situation to really make judgements but on the surface from what I've seen I'd say no sue. More info might change my mind. But it will take a lot.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merrick 0 #72 April 15, 2004 QuoteIt's not acceptable to me in other parts of my life. Whether I get hurt because I bought a topheavy vehicle and rolled it, or because I bought crappy bindings for my skis, or because I wanted to buy the cheap bike helmet, I take responsibility for my decisions. Good on ya, I actually agree. I was just trying to point out that the majority of this great nation is very "sue happy," and I honestly thought some of the responses were from a mindset of a skydiver. That they might have been different if posed in a different situation. QuoteAbout the only time I would sue someone is if it's a situation where someone else is intentionally injuring me and other remedies fail Agree with that too, if a good-ol ass whippin' can't solve the problem it's time to take other measures. QuoteI'm sure you know this already, but you signed a waiver that says you are OK with other people being negligent. If you're not OK with it you shouldn't have signed the waiver. Yes I did, and I accept that. But, in the certain circumstances a waiver doesn't mean much. How many students have already sued and won, regardless of the waiver. How many doctors have been sued by patients whose life they just saved... I'm sure the list goes on. In this particular case, I'm sure it would be hard to prove all of Lawrocket's 1)2)3)and4) points. I was mainly trying to get everyone to take the Gatorz (read: skydiving blinders ) off. Blues! Merrick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #73 April 15, 2004 You have done your fellow skydivers an absolute disservice here! If, as you say you are not going to sue the mystery manufacturer, their is no reason NOT to give US the full story behind this incident! We feel the pain for your wife and may she make a complete and speedy recovery. How will you feel if someone else dies or is permanently paralyzed because you kept the facts to yourself? Proud? If there is a potentially problematic container issue you as a skydiver/instructor OWE it to us to explain the issue at hand. If I see that your container is a total just waiting to happen, it is my DUTY to inform you! If you so decide to jump it anyway, at least you do so willingly and informed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #74 April 15, 2004 QuoteThis is what amazes me. In The Netherlands EVERYONE has health insurance. Hell, it is even a crime not to have it. Is it so rare over there to have health insurance? To be able to afford health insurance in the US you need to either work for a company that offers it as a benefit or have a high enough income/low enough expenses to afford US$100 and up (I've seen it as high as US$400) per month in premiums. I know fewer people who do not have health insurance than I do people who do have health insurance. But it's not at all uncommon for someone making US$30k-ish or less per year to not be able to afford it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #75 April 15, 2004 What if you were driving a Ford Explorer a few years ago and the bead on your Firestones broke causing you to roll your vehicle breaking your back. Merrick, I had a Bronco II with Firestones on it and had a tire separate the tread at 85mph and didn't crash even though the Bronco II had a much higher c.o.g. than the Explorer, see I know how to drive and didn't panic. They intensionally blew out tires on the Explorers under all types of circumstances and never flipped a single one, although the tires were defective, it was driver error that rolled the vehicles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
