UK -- Skydiver sends text message suicide note -- Press Clips

[Zenister 0]

WOW..

i can relate to the feelings of hopelessness and the contemplation of suicide, but i have zero comprehension about how someone could do that to someone they called "friend" (the cameraman) I feel more for him than anyone else in this...what a perfectly asshat thing to do to someone....

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jose 0]

Im with you and Shadowjumper on this one. What a selfish dick. I cant imagine the pain that the cameraman will have now. I wouldn't be surprised if he quit the sport.

And what about the kids he left behind? Especially the one that he PURPORSELY TEXT TO!?!?!?!, just before he got on the plane. What a complete asshole for leaving his family with all that pain.

I guess we were all supposed to feel sad for the unbelieveable pain that he must have been going thru, but its all but removed when you realize that he was purposely making his own snuff film, and at the horrible expense of the cameraman.

The only ones I feel sad for are those that like and loved this guy, and now have to deal with this shit. Im sure alot of them are angry with him for deciding to "deal" with his problems.

[JohnMitchell 14]

He should have hung on for the love of his kids. Some men don't realize how important they are to their families, and how much their children need them. I'm there, married with four kids. It might be fun to be foot loose and free, but that's not what a man does when he has children. It's all a crying shame.

[Scrumpot 1]

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His only chance would have been to fly to the cameraman and hang on to him to save himself using a special technique. But he chose not to.

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Somebody hit that reporter.....hard

I'm sure that little blurb came out of him at some point reading the "survival" handbook. Some whuffo's actually believe that shit! Remember when rec.dot had the breathing through your skin thing "officially" (yet tongue-in-cheek) in it's FAQ? I don't know how many times I either read somewhere, or heard as a result, someone unfortunately quoting, supposedly (to their minds) "CREDIBLY" from that ...thas yes, this is so, and is "FACT". ---DOH!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[CrazyRock 0]

I'm sure he was a nice guy, and all of the other things that you say.. but i agree with shadow jumper here... lets put it this way- his *action* was selfish, thoughtless, cruel to his freind(s), and made him look like a total ass. If he were my freind i'd be pissed as all hell at him. what he did was a real f**king idiotic thing to do. He apparently wasn't thinking about the effect it would have on his family, kids, freinds, or even about the black eye it would give the sport. Everyone goes through bad times. But I and other people I know have promised ourselves and others to never resort to suicide! it just doesn't make sense. even the worst of times get better. no matter how nice of a guy you are, suicide as an action screams "hey, look at me, I'm a selfish dick." and that gets no sympathy from me.

I feel incredibly sorry for his freinds, especially the cameraman, his family, and the dropzone. his action was unfair to them all.

-Seth :)

[CrazyRock 0]

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His only chance would have been to fly to the cameraman and hang on to him to save himself using a special technique. But he chose not to.

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Somebody hit that reporter.....hard

that would have to be one hell of a mr. bill

-Seth :)

[Michele 1]

All I can say to those people on this thread who call him a fucking idiot is thank God you don't understand suicide, depression, and what it's like to have that as the solution.

Thank God. I hope you never experience it.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[jose 0]

Well, I can see that you dont agree with most of the thoughts on the subject here. But, I think you are confusing 2 different thought processes here.

I dont believe anyone here, including myself, thinks that someone who contemplates suicide, or is depressed is a fucking idiot. Please dont take my responses as that, as I hope these people recieve the help they need to pull them from the such clutches.

What I do NOT condone is suicide as a "solution" as you so put it. It is this kind of thinking that will change most peoples sentiment on the subject. Suicide is never a solution and the fact that some bleeding hearts here have a problem with the majorities thoughts on this guys actions, only reinforces the act for those who are contemplating such.

This clown wanted an audience for his act. He wanted it permanently put on film and in the mind of the cameraman or anyone that sees the film. This is what pisses me off so goddamn much. Assholes who want an audience. Being in the fire service I see many suicide attempts that are just people wanting attention. As a matter of fact I just came back from a call 1 hour ago from a moron who took some Decon and whisky. He then called 911 and waited for us to show up. I have no sympathy for most of these people, because they are full of shit, but at least the get help and dont leave thier families with so much grief.

Most people that REALLY want to kill themselves do it in private. I have yet to go on a call where someone offs themselves with a shotgun in front of the whole familiy. Alot of them take meds with lots of alcohol at night and no one knows until the next day when they are already dead. Trying not to be callous here, but at least these people had the decency to not leave such a permanent visual imprint on their loved ones minds like this asshole did.

Trust me when I say that I know and see on a regular basis the effects of suicide and depression. I see it everyday I am on shift. It sucks in ways that most dont understand, but if we as a society keep up the "no responsibilty for our own actions" way of thinking, assholes like this guy will continue to act on such an unbelievably selfish exit.








Or maybe he just watched "Cutaway".

[Michele 1]

Hi, Jose. I read this twice, and had to step away for a bit.

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I think you are confusing 2 different thought processes here.

I dont believe anyone here, including myself, thinks that someone who contemplates suicide, or is depressed is a fucking idiot. Please dont take my responses as that, as I hope these people recieve the help they need to pull them from the such clutches.

Death is the end result of untreated, undiagnosed depression. Same way death is with cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and other illnesses.

Calling someone a "fucking idiot" or the like only tells me that people are mad at the way he did it, not the fact that he did it.

So let's look at the way he did it.

Do I think it was "appropriate"? Nope, not in the least. The same way I would frown on a race car driver hitting the wall intentionally, or a person hanging themselves from an overpass during rush hour. Frankly, suicide is not "appropriate" at all. But it is a solution to someone who is deeply depressed. And that's the part people don't understand. I'm cursed. I understand both sides of it completely.

You go on to articulate those suicides who were successful at killing themselves v. those who weren't (just wanting attention). It would seem to me that you condone suicide in a quiet, private manner, as if this changed the outcome for the dead person. If someone attempts/threatens suicide, it needs to be heeded. Regardless of those people who think it's selfish, the potential suicide needs attention. Like really fast. Your (and others) condemnation of suicide does nothing to help people understand what depression is/is not, and what leads a person to suicide as a solution. All it does is drive those who are thinking about it underground, away from potential sources of help.

Back to the topic. Do you think Alistair was unaware of Steven Hilder which was first thought to be murder? Perhaps he wanted to make sure his death was not seen as an accident of skydiving, nor as a murder...but rather for what it was; a suicide. With no questions. Unambiguous.

It is indeed horrific that his friend witnessed - and indeed filmed - the suicide. It will be something that he deals with for the rest of his life. It will scar him, hurt him, and make him question himself and his actions. I would reach out to this person and talk to him as long as he needed someone to listen and talk with if they thought it would help (and yes, that's an offer should he be reading this...pm me if you choose.).

Do I think it was "good"? Nope. Do I think it warrants "fucking idiot" labeling? Oh hell no. But it was Alistair's choice. And Alistair chose badly, indeed. But what a hard choice to face making in the first place.

And that's my point.

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What I do NOT condone is suicide as a "solution" as you so put it. It is this kind of thinking that will change most peoples sentiment on the subject. Suicide is never a solution and the fact that some bleeding hearts here have a problem with the majorities thoughts on this guys actions, only reinforces the act for those who are contemplating such.

It is a solution. Not the right one, but one nonetheless. I don't think my calling it what it is will actually change anyone's mind on the subject. Unless you've been where he was, you have no right making the judgment you (and others) have. None. You have opinions, but you are making judgments which are unfounded.

As for me being a "bleeding heart" and being against the majority's opinion, perhaps that's because I have experience you don't have...perhaps that's because I understand the choices made. Perhaps I have a deeper, more indepth understanding of what brings a person to suicide than you do. And again, I say, "thank God." While you have experience with the aftermath of suicide, you do not (thank God!!!) understand what brings a person to that choice, that razor edge, that solution. And perhaps I'm willing to speak my mind irrespective of what a "majority" thinks. Too bad.

I am not suggesting anyone commit suicide. Your intimation that I (and other "bleeding hearts") have is absolutely outrageous and completely unfounded. I take that as a complete distortion of anything and everything I've ever said here on the subject of depression; totally and completely misrepresentative and completely out of line.

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Trust me when I say that I know and see on a regular basis the effects of suicide and depression.

I do trust you that you've seen the effects. Trust me when I say your experience doesn't mean you even begin to understand or comprehend why there was a suicide in the first place.

What's also amazing, and frankly utterly appalling, is no-one is discussing what depression and/or suicidal tendencies/ideation appears like, what the symptoms are, or what to do if you think a friend is suicidal. Aside from mine, there are no offers to help anyone who is contemplating suicide. And there are more than people would realize, not just in skydiving but in life. And before anyone says "well, this is just an internet forum, it doesn't matter", I know personally of several situations which came from here where someone listened and reached out...and who are doing better because of it.

Look, I'm trying to be nice in the face of getting slammed like you did. I am aware I am writing on a public forum, that the press can (and does) access this place for skydiving news.

What I'll end the post with is simply this....

If you are thinking of suicide, if that looks like a solution to you, please reach out and get some help from someone. It will not be easy, but if I can come back from it, you can. If I can get better, you can. If I can find happiness again, you can.

I am so sorry you were in such pain, Alistair, that you made the choice to die. I wish you had reached out; I wish you had been able to hold on for a bit longer. Though you didn't, I hope that in your death you have found what you sought. Blessed be.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[willhill 0]

Thanks for your post here. Your views come from a perspective few of us have seen. Recently, I was involved in a brief exchange about this subject in the Incidents forum (Northern Ireland Skydiver...). Suicide is a subject that elicites visceral reactions from most people. I disagree with the opinions of Michele, Nightingale and others with respect to the mental state of a depressed individual bent on suicide. Most suiciders are not delusional schizophrenics. Regarding skydivers, I don't believe that a chemical imbalance in their brains suddenly transforms them into zombie-like lemmings who march into dropzones, strap on rigs and kill themselves in front of fellow jumpers. No, this is a plan; a decision that they contemplate and then carry out with cold deliberation. And I agree with you that these skydivers crave an audience for their final jump - a last stab at glory, pathetic as it is.

Folks in the skydiving community should roundly condemn anyone who comes to a dropzone to commit suicide, even after they're dead. Don't we all want our friends to remember us with love and respect after we die? If a friend of mine burned in as a suicide at my dropzone, I'd be hard pressed to raise a glass to his poisoned memory.

So, what are we supposed to do? We go to our DZs to have fun and be safe among a fine band of people. We aren't psychologists or therapists. We can't read minds, let alone try to detect a potential suicider hanging around in the packing area. Maybe every DZ should be required to have a trained counselor on call. Right.

I don't fundamentally care if someone truly wants to end their life. We are the only creature on the planet that can choose whether we want to take the next breath or not. And that's OK. But if you're a skydiver, don't take that last breath jumping out of a plane.
We won't buy you beer.

[Tonto 1]

Hannah Bradman did the right thing by dumping him.

At 23, no one should be stuck with someone like that.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Ali was a very cool, helpful, kind, fun person who has a lot of friends who read these post, and we do not need thoughtless folk like you coming on here and calling a recently deceased friend a "F****ing Idiot", "

I'd like to echo Nick's sentiments.

To all you asshats who are posting to insult Ally's memory, thanks, thanks a bunch. Your kind words make it so much easier to those of us, whose lives have been touched by Ally, to come to terms with all of this. You are making our sense of loss, frustration, anger, and inadequacy so much more easy to cope with.

One final point, the press read these forums. I was recently contacted by a leading newspaper, via my profile details, to supply photographs of Ally . How would you guys like to see some of these comments you have posted being quoted in the national press?
Do you think this would be 'good for the sport'?

This is one of the few threads I've seen here that I actually regret clicking on.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[JoeyRamone 0]

I agree with Steve, bull shit on feeling bad for this loser, EVERYONE has had the thought of killing themselves, but most of us get thought it, with friends, family and doctors. I have and never will feel bad for someone who chooses to take the easy way out and commit suicide.
I also agree if the person was terminally ill but that is it and that still crosses a thin line. Life is a gift; enjoy it why you can….

[Skylark 0]

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Whatever...

If this was an actual suicide, then he was a F****ing Idiot

If he was dieing of cancer and wanted to go out his way, I'd understand

- but no girl friend, boy friend, spouse, or situation is worth committing suicide over...period

I have no pity, or remorse for him if he committed suicide - only for those he left behind

How do you know how he felt? It was his life to do what the hell he wanted. If he wanted to have one last skydive before he died, good for him. If I wanted to kill myself, I´d probably go this way too.

"Into the dangerous world I leapt..." William Blake, Songs of Experience

[mr2mk1g 10]

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If I wanted to kill myself, I´d probably go this way too.

It would be my love for skydiving that would keep me from doing it this way. I love the sport and the people too much to do something like this to them. Skydiving has given me way too much to hurt it and its community by killing myself on a skydive.

[JoeyRamone 0]

You got that right.....

[damion75 0]

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If I wanted to kill myself, I´d probably go this way too.

Please do me a favour by filling in the rest of your profile, including your home DZ. So that I can avoid it.

I have no desire to share a DZ, let alone a plane, with someone with your attitude.

Vaya con dios.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[lowie 0]

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Steve --

I take it you've never had any pain in your life?

The fact is you can't say for certain what you'd do in his situation because you're not him and haven't lived his life.

Yeah, the situation sucks for everyone. No doubt. However, calling him an idiot for doing what he did only suggests to me that you've been very fortunate in your life.

I agree - anyone who hasnt thought about killing themself at some stage has lived a very fortunate life - SO FAR. Things can change. It's only by going thru a really rough time and coming out the other side that you know lifes worth living and that you can get thru it. Depression is a killer.

[Skylark 0]

"Please do me a favour by filling in the rest of your profile, including your home DZ. So that I can avoid it. I have no desire to share a DZ, let alone a plane, with someone with your attitude"

I wouldn´t kill myself in front of you or anyone else. Suicide is usually a very private affair, unless one is feeling so much pain they need others to see what they´re going through. Perhaps this was why Alistair died on camera, in the hope that his ex-gf would see it and feel guilty. His skydive suicide wasn´t the first and it won´t be the last.

"Into the dangerous world I leapt..." William Blake, Songs of Experience

[Spike 0]

There are those who have experienced deep suicidal depression and those who haven't. Just like skydiving, the people who have never been there cannot truly relate to the experience of those who have.

Those of you who can find no common ground in your minds or space in your heart for Alastair or anyone else who commits suicide, I hope you never need help yourself. And those of you who are prepared to hold out the hand of friendship, remember the suicidal don't ask for help, for they hold the answer in thier own hands. You have to find them.

Michelle, I'm with you.

[freeflynick 0]

Thank you Michelle - and I applaude your self-control while writing your post. This thread is starting to make me feel nauseous.
Whatever your feelings on suicide, and how you would or wouldn't do it (which is a ridiculous thing for most people to say anyway, as they have very little idea what it would actually be like to make that desicion), why can't you meatheads out there refrain from insulting Alistair and his memory. Sure, put your point across, but PLEASE take peoples feelings into consideration.
Tonto - "no one should be stuck with someone like that" - so you knew Alistair did you? NO! So please return to redneck.com and post there.
Jose - please let me know when someone close to you dies so that I can stand over their grave and call them a "dick" and an "asshole". People with reasonable intelligence should be able to put their opinions forward without insulting people they dont even know - I guess you dont fit into that bracket though.
Skylark - respect.
The rest - PLEASE try and keep this civil. This is a very sensative issue and there are grieving people reading this thread, so use your head and choose you words with a little more compassion.

[Michele 1]

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Thank you Michelle - and I applaude your self-control while writing your post. This thread is starting to make me feel nauseous.

You're welcome, Nick. I just wrote to a friend my observations about how people are seeing skydiving as more important than a person's life...and how that bothers me in a very real, fundamental way.

What amazes me is the freedom people feel in condemning someone who is suicidal, instead of looking for the humanity in that person, and finding compassion in themselves for that person. It only points out what I know already - people don't see depression as something which is a medical illness, something which is lethal if not treated. They see it as something else, and this contributes to depression's silent death...

Because this is the prevalent feeling in society (whichever one you belong to...) is it any wonder a person won't reach out for help? Is it any wonder a person feels helpless and believes it's futile to do anything about it? Is it really any wonder that a person hides their illness; indeed from themselves as well as the rest of the world?

For those who would condemn someone for choosing suicide, I would suggest you look into yourself first, find some compassion, and use that part of you which transcends selfish, self-centered behavior...and if you can't, then more's the pity.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[willhill 0]

Here's a better idea: go ahead and make that last jump, land standing up, leave your rig at the DZ, get in your car, drive to a nice hotel, check in, unpack a bottle of pills and a fifth of single malt . . . . and have at it.

[freeflynick 0]

willhill - read Michelle's posts.
Hopefully then you migt realise the stupidity of what you just wrote - A "better idea"!!??
A better idea would be to never make any skydive your last, and to ignore people like you and find the right people to talk to and get the help needed to deal with the situation and stay alive to appreciate and enjoy the life you have been given.

Hobbes: "How come we play 'War' and not 'Peace'?"
Calvin: "Too few role models."

[willhill 0]

Agreed. They should feel free to ignore people like me. I won't be able to help them.