quade 3 #1 December 22, 2003 LINK Quote First overseas sale for Hamilton-built skydiving plane 22.12.2003 12.48 pm Hamilton's Pacific Aviation Corporation (PAC) today said it had delivered one of its new PAC 750XL aircraft to a Californian company, the first sale of the locally designed and built plane to an overseas buyer. The aircraft sold to Woodland California-based Utility Aircraft Corporation was one of 18 of the new planes already sold, and PAC said it had received strong expressions of interest from a further 260 potential buyers of the aircraft. PAC general manager John McWilliam said the PAC750XL was the first passenger aircraft to be designed and manufactured in New Zealand, and the first new aircraft built in the last 25 years specifically for the burgeoning adventure parachuting market. The aircraft can take 17 fully kitted skydivers to 11,811ft in 12 minutes. Mr McWilliams said the plane's spacious interior, large exit door, safe jump platform and quick loading capability made it ideal for parachuting. "Adventure parachuting is the fastest-growing recreational market in the world," he said. Mr McWilliam says PAC's decision to make a purpose-built aircraft for the parachuting market gave it a big edge over competitors. However, PAC managing director Brian Hare said the aircraft was not limited to parachuting. "It's ideal for carrying cargo, reconnaissance, sightseeing, commuting, mineral exploration and for medical and military use," he said. Mr Hare said the orders for the aircraft and huge interest shown in it were personally satisfying for him. "The response justifies the faith we placed in it. Some of the early sales have been made sight unseen by the buyers. This is an indication of the integrity of the design and of the confidence the industry has in Pacific Aerospace." The aircraft is currently undergoing American Federal Aviation Administration certification under a bilateral agreement with the Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand. PAC which began 45 years ago, operates from a two production line manufacturing facility at Hamilton International Airport. It has manufactured components for Boeing, Airbus, and defence aircraft. The company was also involved in the ANZAC frigate project, producing combat system containers for the modularised frigates. - NZPAquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #2 December 22, 2003 With all the talk here about shrinking numbers of jumpers, jumpers having no money, and the bad economy how can a DZO buy a new plane. Or is it that skydivers are like farmers. They like to complain about how broke they are, but really have money to spend when they want to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 December 22, 2003 Its either buy a plane and rack up the debt or look at the airframe of your busted airplane. DZ's can't really afford to have engines blow up but when they do its either close shop or take out loans to fix it and hope you can make your money back. I would'nt want to be a DZO...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #4 December 22, 2003 Sorta sounds like my life. I don't want to be a DZO either, but I'm glad someone wants the job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #5 December 22, 2003 Yes, they seem to be busy. I just heard that the new XL which was expected my home-DZ on Jan 5 will be delayed. I'll find out for how long when I'll go out there Boxing day. Will post pics and first impressions as soon as it arrives...--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #6 December 22, 2003 QuoteWill post pics and first impressions as soon as it arrives... Please do. It'll be interesting to see how 4-way teams like the platform to launch from...especially long formations. (and don't forget about the camera step impression....talk to your cameraflyers and get their input as well...) Thanks! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #7 December 22, 2003 Ah Mikkey!! An "N" boy hey?? HA HA!! The airframe is a well proven more skydiver friendly base and from all reports I hear it is going to be rather cool. You and I know there are other aircraft of similar characteristics from the older design , one operating in your state even now just a little closer to the southern waters lol! I think the new version will be ultra cool and even though the hype may override the initial expectations of some I am sure it will live up to its rep. Just like when I saw the Let 410 for the first time , as a pilot I thought nice machine and strong looking!! It has not disappointed!! Hope to be down there for the Easter fun! Say hi to D+L for me! BSBD -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #8 December 22, 2003 Here is a pic for anyone out there too lazy to look for the site lol!! BSBD -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #9 December 22, 2003 it costs about 1,000,000$NZ so it's quite probably a very inexpensive aircraft for the ppl in the USAYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #10 December 22, 2003 It is not just the cost of the aircraft but the ongoing costs such as the powerplant , airframe , 100 hourlys etc etc. This aircraft is one of the better ones if going by the paper stats for the overall costs for the XL is anything to go by. One is being delivered to a dz South of where I am and I think it will do just fine there in the long term. I went there after a change of ownership some time ago and the new owners are dedicated skydivers and you can tell the same by the look of the place! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #11 December 22, 2003 QuoteHere is a pic for anyone out there too lazy to look for the site Does that tail look a little low? Probably plenty of clearance during a normal evolution...Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTB 0 #12 December 22, 2003 I am thinking the same, if they had made the rear stabilizers like a V form that could have helped. Or moved them to the top of the tail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BethUK 0 #13 December 22, 2003 I heard that Cark In The UK is getting one next year....anyone know this for sure? Bx------------------------------------------------------------ "This isn't flying...it's falling with style!" Buzz Lightyear - Toystory 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZL60 0 #14 December 22, 2003 cool cool.. like it says below: Who said Kiwis can't fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #15 December 22, 2003 I wonder about the tail, too. But it makes sense why the tail is like that; from what I saw on their website, this plane isn't all that new; it's an adjustment on an existing aggie plane that is itself an update to an older version they did. Perhaps the most special thing is that it comes configured for skydiving right from the factory. I don't mean to insult this plane; I think it's gorgeous, I can't wait to jump one, and I was impressed with the claims of the aggie version (cycle speed, takeoff roll, payload, payload loading speed ). I can't remember the pricing details, but this plane didn't seem to blow other skydiving aircraft in its size range out of the water. The mfgr gives some charts showing how this plane is significantly more profitable than a Caravan, Twin Otter, or King Air when purchase price, maintenance, insurance, and operational costs are all computed, but when operation doesn't go perfectly I suspect the profit difference will narrow. (It was interesting to see that the thing that killed the King Air was the insurance; near as I could tell, the King Air's retractable gear doubled the insurance cost.) That being said, the Caravan has a wider body and there are a bunch of them available used. (Twin otters are available even more used.) Didn't seem like anything had the pilot visibility of the 750 XL from the pictures I saw. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pubwoof 0 #16 December 22, 2003 QuoteLINK Quote The aircraft can take 17 fully kitted skydivers to 11,811ft in 12 minutes. How long does it take for this plane to reach full altitude (13,000 to 14,000 ft)? Or, I wonder how enthusiastic upjumpers are going to be about this plane if its service ceiling is only 2,000 higher than a Cessna's. Tandems aren't likely to notice the difference, but I'm sure your local RW team will. The glass isn't always half-full OR half-empty. Sometimes, the glass is just too damn big. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #17 December 22, 2003 I'm pretty certain the number 11,811 isn't the service ceiling of the aircraft but a wacky translation of what had been said. 11,811 feet = about 3600 meters If a plane loaded at max gross can climb at about 1,000 feet per minute up to 11,811 feet, it's probably not going to slow down to less than 100 feet per minute at 11,812 feet. Since this is a turbine aircraft, my guess is that its service ceiling is well above altitudes that would require oxygen. They claim an Absolute Ceiling of 30,000 feet. (Service Ceiling is where the aircraft can no long maintain a climb rate over 100 feet per minute. Absolute Ceiling is the highest the aircraft can climb at all.)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #18 December 22, 2003 Actually... RW teams only have to train for 35 seconds and thats easy to do from 10500. The Nationals are ran at 10k just for this reason. BTW, I've jumped a Cessna at 13500 before.. it just took a while to get there Perris only goes to 12500 and I don't here people complaining much that their Twin Otters only go to that height. I think the design of the PAC is solid, I just wish the tail had been moved up higher then an Otters.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #19 December 23, 2003 The altitude was only in reference to a "12 minute benchmark".There are no problems going higher to what ever is allowed in your part of the world. My DZ does all lifts to 14 K and I have been told that they expect a total "turnaround time", i.e. time from take off to landing to be 15 minutes for 14 K with the XL. Note that the 12 minutes at 11.8 K was related to a fully loaded plane with 17 jumpers. Most lifts at my DZ do not go with the last spot "squeezed" in - typical you would have 14/15 jumpers on a load. Thats why I they think it is 15 minutes turnaround (probably based on talking to DZ's in NZ who already have the XL in service).--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #20 December 23, 2003 The 750XL's door size is only 50x45. Our Otter's door is 56x50. Those few inches can mean alot in launching a better 4-way exit...or chunking a 16-way. Still don't like the look of the tail's stabilizer's height and distance from the door. There've been many a cameraflyer who's hit a Caravan's tail. And remember Raoul and his camera helmet slap? Cracked it, didn't it? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #21 December 23, 2003 The XL will do 14k easily as do the older Cresco's and Fletchers. I don't think the tail will be a problem as I have not heard about close calls or similar with what is in use at the moment here in Australia. If it is a little close then like the Navajo jumpers will have to be wary. This sort of aircraft is suited well to Australia as we do not have the jumpers required to have King Airs or Otters at a lot of dz's like in the US for instance , and with fewer jumpers it can still go up and not lose money. BSBD -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #22 December 23, 2003 QuoteThere've been many a cameraflyer who's hit a Caravan's tail. I don't think so. QuoteAnd remember Raoul and his camera helmet slap? Cracked it, didn't it? Shit happens. I've got better than 2000 jumps from caravans. Good airplane, not one close call. The PAC will be a fine bird...---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #23 December 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteThere've been many a cameraflyer who's hit a Caravan's tail. I don't think so. QuoteAnd remember Raoul and his camera helmet slap? Cracked it, didn't it? Shit happens. I've got better than 2000 jumps from caravans. Good airplane, not one close call. The PAC will be a fine bird... I know of 5 Caravan tail hits by cameraflyers. That's 5 too many IMO. I'm sure that the 750XL will be fine for most skydiving adventures. I'd like to get input from experienced RW -teams- as to what they experience with the bird, though. It'll take some time to get that info, though. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #24 December 24, 2003 >I know of 5 Caravan tail hits by cameraflyers. That's 5 too many IMO. I know of an Otter Tail hit... Any plane with a stabilizer can be hit. Some are easier then others. Solution? We all need to jump tailgates! Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #25 December 24, 2003 Quote>I know of 5 Caravan tail hits by cameraflyers. That's 5 too many IMO. I know of an Otter Tail hit... Any plane with a stabilizer can be hit. Some are easier then others. Solution? We all need to jump tailgates! An Otter hit, huh. That must have been one large leap up by a tall person with springs on their legs...and perhaps some big ass harry wings! (or are you referring to the BirdMan tail/stabilizer hit at Perris last year?) ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
