Did you jump the PAC at WFFC? Thoughts?

[kai2k1 0]

I jumped the PAC at WFFC and found it to be a decent jumpship. Smaller than an otter but and a little tight especially if youre behind the pilot in the middle jumpseat where the crossmember was.


I thought the climb to altitude was better than average with a full load (and we were squeezed in there tight).

Gettin in the door was quite easy and the extra bars and handles made it more comfortable to hold on to.

There's my thoughts. What did you think?

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan

[Cacophony 0]

I liked it for doing hop'n pops out of. It has its flaws but for an airplane designed specifically for skydiving, I think they did a good job. I like all the handles inside. I didn't get a chance to check out the camera step, or any step for that matter, because I never rode it above 3,000'.

[Flyer2Diver 0]

I jumped it and liked it. As a step up from a Cessna, I think it's a winner.

I liked the seating setup, big windows, and low noise level. After the skyvan, the quiet was most welcome!

I don't think it compares favorably to an otter from a skydivers perspective, but if the choice is between the pac and a cessna, or the pac and an otter that won't fly because not enough people are around to make profitable loads, it makes a lot of sense.

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30005KT 10SM SKC 23/05 A3006

[VectorBoy 0]

How does it compare to a grand carravan?

[indyz 1]

It feels more cramped than a Grand Caravan to me. I think the cabin is smaller, as is the door. The straddle benches (which I hate in any aircraft) probably help make the cabin feel smaller. If I were jumping one regularly, I would prefer a padded floor and tobggan-style seating. With fifteen people, I was pretty squeezed in the floor seating section at the back. Getting into my wingsuit was a major PITA.

On the plus side, it does seem to climb quite a bit faster than a Caravan.

It should be noted that there are a whole lot of things that I have done out of the Grand Caravan that I didn't get a chance to try in the PAC: Climbing out to the camera step, floating from various positions, taking off a chunk, being a late diver on a 10+ way (one of the reasons I hate straddle benches), riding up near the cockpit on a crowded load, and so much more. Once I've done all of that, I can feel comfortable deciding which one is "better".

[ematteo 0]

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Once I've done all of that, I can feel comfortable deciding which one is "better".

Come out to Davis and jump it some more!

[diablopilot 2]

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How does it compare to a grand carravan?

It's cabin is a wee bit smaller in diameter, but it makes a lot more sense when you look at the cost. Less than 1 million for a brand new airplane that climbs faster is less expensive to maintain vs. a 1 to 1.2 million dollar 10 to 15 year old airplane.

I enjoyed the A/C, with a few jumps I was able to get used to most of it's peculiarities. I'd like to try taking tandems out of one, but I think it will be a fine A/C to add to the fleet of jump planes.

Of course opinions vary, but I like stradle style benches more than side benches, they are much more comfortable in the climb and WAY easier to hook up tandems on. As for sitting on the floor? I hate that. Way uncomfortable, sucks for getting a tandem to their feet, and I always end up with some ones rig crushing my "boys".

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[flyangel2 2]

As a LO for WFFC, I took a number of loads to the PAC. I wanted other jumpers to get a feel for it, and I also want to give my honest opinion to a DZO that is thinking about buying one.

It's the perfect plane for a DZ that doesn't have enough jumpers to fill a King Air, but too many for a smaller plane.

The loads that I put together, I had up to six people floating, and one time a gal that had never front floated. We tried all different kinds of exits, and they all came out great.

I sat in different places on the PAC every jump, and found I was comfortable no matter where I sat.

I think more and more smaller DZs should look into this aircraft.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[DaMan 0]

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...I would prefer a padded floor and tobggan-style seating. With fifteen people, I was pretty squeezed in the floor seating section at the back. Getting into my wingsuit was a major PITA.
...

I was thinking that when I did a freefly jump from it.

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...I didn't get a chance to try in the PAC: Climbing out to the camera step...

I flew camera for a two way sitfly - I don't think they ever cut the engine on the run and it made for some strong prop blast that rivals a Kingair. On the plus side, the grab bar extends all the way to the step; so, you don't have to change hands getting into position.
Another plus no one has mentioned is the passenger controlled air vents in the back - once it got moving, it was like having your own temperature controlled environment...almost didn't need to open the door!

Z-Flock 8
Discotec Rodriguez

Too bad weapons grade stupidity doesn't lead to sterility.

[riggerrob 558]

Of course opinions vary, but I like stradle style benches more than side benches, they are much more comfortable in the climb and WAY easier to hook up tandems on. As for sitting on the floor? I hate that. Way uncomfortable, sucks for getting a tandem to their feet, and I always end up with some ones rig crushing my "boys".

[Fast 0]

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How does it compare to a grand carravan?

I have to agree with comparing it to a grand caravan. I don't think its fair to compare it to an otter. They are not really in the same leauge.

Comparing it to a caravan, from a jumpers standpoint I like the caravan more. The extra room inside is nice as I really don't like being cramped in. I will take a slightly longer more comfortable ride over a cramped shorter ride.


From a $ standpoint the pac is better.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Peej 0]

I jumped it a couple times and i have to say i liked it. Coming from a home DZ that jumps a Porter i find it comparable and if not better in some ways. It climbed sweetly and was super comfy. Of course the door in the porter is awesome but the PAC wasn't bad either.

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[billvon 2,428]

Liked it overall. Cabin was great for 14 people, doable for 16; 17+ people is a mistake. It has the cabin of a King Air, the door of a Caravan and the climb rate of a Super Otter, which is nice. Pilot-operated door is nice. Have to lean way down to be able to see under the wing to check for traffic, but that's not a big deal (and some people ardently refuse to do so anyway, so it's a non-issue for them.) Usual issues with prop blast on exit. No problem exiting with a wingsuit, but it was a pain in the ass to suit up, and the exit got really strung out due to the cramped quarters.

It would be a great plane for a place like Alaska Skydiving, with the smaller loads and short strip. The lower cost (especially once used ones become available) will mean that it can fly economically with fewer people, thus being an effective aircraft for smaller DZ's.

[drakeshelby 0]

i jumped it and thought that it was a nice ride to altitude. A little slow but not bad! The A/C in it works really good. It was a comfortable ride to altitude, i thought. I am not sure what the capacity of jumpers it will hold but on my load it had 14.



drakeshelby

drakeshelby

[diablopilot 2]

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17+ people is a mistake.

Remember it still had the right hand seat in place. With that removed as operations permit, the is more room avaliable.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[FrogNog 1]

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17+ people is a mistake.

Remember it still had the right hand seat in place. With that removed as operations permit, the is more room avaliable.

That's one of the rules of skydiving: no matter what size the plane, they'll always put one more person in than will fit comfortably.

[diablopilot 2]

Always! I love the Otter loads I've been on where 4 people have been cramed into the "dog house"

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Problems: The three straddle benches in the back make life very uncomfortable on the way up and the cross-support for the wing that cuts across the bottom of the cabin is very easy to trip on. With 15 people on board gear checks are pretty much impossible. 17 people in that plane will be near impossible, and they admitted that at the convention. The benches are high enough that if you get up just a bit to much you wack your head and rig on the top of the cabin or on the two bars that run along the sides (I have a few new dents in my helmet from them). The plane is smaller inside than a Caravan and it feels more crampped than a King Air.

I'm used to the door of an otter, so it is wierd having to go under the inside floater bar to get out the short door (wierd that you can see across the top of the plane when you are floating), and on a quick exit its very easy to hit your head on that bar.

The prop blast is different than an otter of course, and it blows a burning smell into the cabin whenever the door is open.

The fuselage is rounded, so the plane could never compete with the caravan for hauling just cargo/boxes.

Good things: Huge outside floater bar, plenty of places to outside float (including the wing and the lower step), wide door, inside air vents to help cool off the jumpers, quiet inside, low windows so everyone can spot from their seat and have a view on the ride up (I was able to watch all of the WFFC traffic on the way up top), fairly quick ride up.

I was told that the plane is deceptive on the ground - the tail flies higher when airborne (and it is 22inches further back than a Caravans Tail). I noticed on jumprun that it seemed to go nose low/tail high on the cut...but the pilot told me that with flaps it flies that way without losing altitude (and I double checked myself - I exited last at almost the same altitutude as the first group).

It's not a bad plane - its just differnt than what I am used to.

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[kelpdiver 2]

I thought I would get a jump in yesterday, but Skydance stayed with the Caravan for their tandem loads, and I ended up on the 182 for the day. (good fun - hadn't been on one since a tandem in 1995)

I did do a plane intro with the Pac and the passenger area is a lot shallower than I'd have guessed and the curved ceiling looks a bit low. I think I'd be happier without the benches. I did like the lower step at the door. Not so crazy about the color scheme. The power door is great, and it looks to have a setting for 3-4 inches of ventilation. Davis is hot in the summer.

This morning they were planning to take some full loads (or 15 to do compares?) on both planes and do some real world benchmarking.

[diablopilot 2]

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The power door is great, and it looks to have a setting for 3-4 inches of ventilation.

I didn't see any power door on the USA plane. What I did see was a very nice roll up door that has a concealed cable attache. The Cable runs to the roof near the pilot, and once the door is fully open the pilot can pull on the handle at the end of the cable, thus shutting the door manualy.

It allows the VNE on the decent to top out around 170 KIAS instead of about 150 KIAS. That will make a large difference in tunaround time.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Kramer 0]

I'll tell you what I liked about the PAC: The windows. It was real easy to see outside from any seat...whereas some planes (Mullin's King Air...although he makes up for this problem in other areas. ), you can't see a damn thing until you're in the door.

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[Jethers203 0]

I liked it a lot and would love for my home DZ of 2 182's to get one.

About how much does one of those cost???

Clint D-24352

[skybytch 259]

I got one jump out of the PAC, and I liked it.

Our load was only 9 and I had the copilot seat so there was plenty of room and a great climb rate. I liked the large windows so everyone has a kick ass view. The grab handles are a nice touch. And the step(s) and outside bar kick ass.

I prefer side benches to straddle benches but that's not a diss on the aircraft. Felt like the door was about the same size (height and width) as a Caravan; interior space felt about like a Caravan too (maybe a bit "taller").

Overall I think it's a sweet aircraft - would be perfect for any dz that can support a Caravan/Porter but not an Otter.