Horny Guerilla on Non-Freefly gear

[Fireflyer 0]

I think I know the answer to this already, but I got conflicting remarks/comments from the following situation this afternoon:

Another jumper (300 or so jumps) approached me to do a "horny guerilla" this afternoon; myself with 60 or so jumps. For those not familiar, or if it is a local term (still a newbie here), it entails locking/docking via the feet and falling on your back.

The issue is I have a Vector II - not freefly-friendly. I got split answers on whether or not it was, well, "ok" or "relatively safe" to perform THIS PARTICULAR maneuver (I have NEVER considered freeflying with it) BUT: I got an "ok" from a 4000+ jump jumper but was later chastised from another 2000+ AFF instructor. It should be noted that I value both opinions and respect both of these persons immensely. Both were my teachers.

I simply want to open it to the board here: what are your thoughts? The guy I jumped with indicated that this was a simple maneuver, but admittedly, I know that wind up the ass-end of my Vector II is never a good idea. I DID ask for a second opinion before the dive, and the opinion I received stating "its ok" is from the person I trust most in skydiving.

Not that it matters, but we actually pulled it off, and held it from exit to 7K, broke, redocked on belly, and played a bit. Falling in that "lounging" position was awesome; I am looking for a new container for next spring right now!!

In any event, I'd appreciate comments from persons of experience, and any horror stories too (I got 1 or 2 at the DZ about this issue this afternoon..)

Thanks

[AggieDave 6]

FF type jumps in a Vector 2...

Is it smart?

Nope.

Is it safe?

Not really.

Can it be done?

Yup.

Have people done it without injury or incident?

Yup.

Have people been hurt jumping none-friendly FF gear?

Yup.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bob.dino 0]

Just a minor thing: it's a Horny Gorilla. That's why folks beat their chests while doing it.

[78RATS 0]

Asking for Trouble.
And the other jumpers will be placed in peril.

Just my .02.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Just a minor thing: it's a Horny Gorilla. That's why folks beat their chests while doing it.

What a Horny Gorilla started out as was a round with up to 6 jumpers. On the key, everyone throws their legs to the center and maintains the wrist grips. If everything is timed right it looks like a big bowl and gains speed really fast. Letting go of the wrist grips came sometime later and with the grab what you can leg grips is kink of tough to pull off.

As for your question, I would say you can wait awhile to try one. Get a little more air time and rig that is a little safer for that type of dive. The sky will always be there.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[wmw999 2,130]

When the horny gorilla was first done, freeflying had not been invented, never mind freefly-friendly gear.

It's not as bright as using freefly-friendly gear, and mongo funnels are very possible. But it's been done, probably a lot more often than with freefly-friendly gear...

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mccordia 73]

You'll be going down faster then you normaly would (on your belly)
Your gear will take wind on other angles as usual (angles that will have the wind try and open your main and/or reserve flap)

No matter what other people decide or tell you..

YOU should think about what is smart, and if you want to do this or not.
No matter what other people tell you, if you think it's not safe and you feel uncomfortable doing so...don't do it..

The chance to do a Horny gorrila will always be there...also 2 years down the line when you might have other/safer gear for instance...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[skyhighkiy 0]

Look at my jump #'s before listening to anything I have to say and taking any of it to heart.


I've been given lots of different opinions about ff w/ my rig (vector 2) I got a buddy w/ 200+ jumps freeflying a vector 2, never had any problems. However, I'm sure there are TONS of people w/ premes and probs ff'ing a vector 2. so I guess, if you want to put yourself in that jeopardy (i've been ff'ing, or attempting, since I got my gear...'bout 60 jumps) that's your perogitive.

my suggestion as far as doing a horny gorilla, or any group maneuver involving strange wind angles on your gear is to make sure you have a bridal cover and BOC, and that you've done a few jumps in head down to see how secure your velcro is. I know some is loser than others. then, make sure everyone in your group knows what you're jumping, that way if they take on the risk, they're not being surprised by your gear, they knew it was rather risky the whole time.

just my opinion

L8ER SKYDIIIIVE!

BE THE BUDDHA!

[steve1 5]

One of the funnest jumps that I made this summer was a horny guerrilla. We did a quick four way and then went to the horny guerrilla. This tumbled for about a 1,000 feet until we stabilized it out. It was flying great until we all decided it was time to give each other the bird. It then started tumbling again. At pull time I realized that one of my slow sleeves had completely inverted covering up my hand and was flopping in the wind. I had to yank it off before throwing out my pilot chute. So I guess the moral of the story is that slow sleeves aren't free fly friendly either.....Steve1

[Fireflyer 0]

Thank you all for your input... I plan to make that the last gorilla on jump for a while (until I get another container!)

[pajarito 0]

Just make sure you check your gear really good to make sure everything is secure and that your closing loop is tight. As WMW999 said, we've been doing horny gorillas for a long time before gear was tailored for free-fly. Is free-fly friendly gear better gear? Sure. I've got it now. However, it's kind of like the whole "kids need to wear helmets when they ride a bike these days" thing. I've never worn a helmet on a bicycle. Some people say that I turned out ok. Others say I didn’t. That’s beside the point. Is it a good idea. Sure. Gotta have one? I don't think so. Can you get hurt if you don't? Maybe.... Moral of the story is that it’s not gonna keep me from doing a horny gorilla if I don’t have a free-fly friendly rig. But then again, that’s just me.

[skybill 19]

Hi Flyer,
Like wendy said, Horney gorilla's have been around for longer than free flying or free flying gear. The classic gorilla dive is roll a tube out the door, when it goes over on its side, everone lets go of the high grip to a upside down donut, then let go-reform a round and do the horney gorilla! Get a copy of Norm Kent's video, "Freak Brothers Convention" and you will see a bunch of "Freak Flying!" in it. Like Roger Freak Flying with one leg crossed!! Oh yes, check out the "Tea Cup" dive too!! I was in on the 24-way "Tea Cup" at Freak Brothers '84, good fun! (not in that video though) No body had any freakin' freefly gear then, just good old Vectors and Racers and Wonder hogs and what-ever!
My Mirage touted the curl under of the side flaps to make it more "free-fly-friendly!!" (that seems to give the butt-to-earth gang more warm fuzzies) however, my old Vector and prior to that Wonder Hog didn't have that feature yet held together in any aerobatic gyration!! Now if you have a loose pack tray or a loose closing loop, freefly rig or not, you're asking for trouble no matter what body attitude you're in!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[Fireflyer 0]

Quote

Now if you have a loose pack tray or a loose closing loop, freefly rig or not, you're asking for trouble no matter what body attitude you're in!

my loop is so tight i question if the pin will ever come out!

i had received a few horror stories of the air grabbing the inch of exposed bridle and pulling the pin, but i have to say, i'd be amazed the air on the exposed portion of the bridle alone would pull my pin considering all the effort I have to put into putting it in!

but that's hubris, and I don't intend to find out just yet!

[skyhighkiy 0]

Quote

i had received a few horror stories of the air grabbing the inch of exposed bridle and pulling the pin,

if you've got a buddy that's a rigger, have thhem install a bridal cover, I"m gonna guess it's going to be a little while be 4 you switch to ff friendly gear (expensive!)

from what I've heard, this significantly reduces the chance of having a preme from air grabbing the bridal, should only cost you about the price of a jump?

BE THE BUDDHA!

[JohnMitchell 14]

A good rigger should be able to put a BOC (bottom of container) pouch on your existing rig for not too much $. That would safe up your rig quite a bit. Make sure you get some transition training and practice.

[Fireflyer 0]

i have a BOC and there is not much bridle exposed, but my pin cover has no velcro or anything, just a rigid tuck under flap

[JohnMitchell 14]

Thanks for the picture. Now I don't know what they were considering unsafe on your rig. Does your tuck-under tab stay closed? In that case, no velcro is needed. IMHO, velcro sucks compared to a well designed tuck tab. My rig, an Infinity, has no velcro on any closure, and it's bulletproof. Your 4 areas of concern are the main flap, reserve flap, the riser covers, and the pilot chute pouch. The two areas I could see on your rig looked okay to me. Make sure your closing loop is nice and tight. Anyone else got some input?

[skyhighkiy 0]

Just a quick suggestion, I know it probably doesn't matter much and everyone's got their own way of doing things, but I usually point the pin up, rather than the "smiley face" I'd like to think it gives the pin maybe just a tiny bit of a nudge to stay in the loop. I 'unno, try it if you want, just sharing throwing out a different idea

BE THE BUDDHA!

[Fireflyer 0]

Quote

but I usually point the pin up, rather than the "smiley face" I'd like to think it gives the pin maybe just a tiny bit of a nudge to stay in the loop.

i always point it up, i think it was just cocked a bit from me messing with it... i too agree. especially when you are leaning back on the rig...

[storm1977 0]

I am a newbie, and I wouldn't do freefly activity of any kind without equipment which is safe for that activity.

If you really want to play around, maybe the DZ would rent you FreeFly friendly gear ... Just a thought.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[skybill 19]

Hi Flyer,
Like tight within reason should be good enough. Remember it's the "Snatch force" (the grabbing power of the pilot chute at bridle stretch, NOT the all girl skydiving team!!!!!) that's extracting the pin.
If you want to get your rig a bit more freeflyfriendly, you can get a BOC pouch installed for not too much and as for the bottom corner curl under, here's a tip. Your rigger can sew a piece of T/XII webbing or the like to the bottom corners of the container in an "L" pattern from the bottom by the backpad and up the side then fair it in to the corner of the side flaps. Inastant curl under and then you can sit fly all you want without having to buy a new rig!! Tacking the bottom corners of the side flaps where they meet the bottom flap for about an inch would also do. These are just some ideas, each rig would require its own engineering. Have fun!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[Vertifly 0]

Quote

When the horny gorilla was first done, freeflying had not been invented, never mind freefly-friendly gear.

That thought crossed my mind when the question was raised, but I corrected the thought.

Less-safe-gear existing when a stunt was invented shouldn't mean that it's ok to continue neglect because there's more safe gear now. You know what I mean...

That's like saying it's ok to drive a car without a seatbelt because when cars were invented they didn't have them. Well, almost anyway...

• Quote

[wmw999 2,130]

Quote

Less-safe-gear existing when a stunt was invented shouldn't mean that it's ok to continue neglect because there's more safe gear now. You know what I mean...

I think that was the somewhat intention of the next (unquoted) sentence, where I say it's not as bright as using freefly-friendly gear.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)