Check your kill lines

[christoofar 0]

Had an unpleasant jump this morning.

Head down, played around, I banana peel out. It's 3. I pull.

Nada.

Wait........... wait............... wait............

Nada.

Hmm.


Alti now says 2,000. This isn't fun. I'm looking at other people opening underneath me. Crap. Quickly picked an open hole and turned that way so I could continue working the mal. I grab the reserve handle and just when I start to put pressure on it to peel it out I got hit with the snatch force. In the siddle by 1,400.

What I'm thinking happened was that the kill line must have been kinked up just enough so that I didn't notice it when I tested the pilot chute before I started my s-folds.

This could have turned out to be worse and probably would have resulted in a two squares out (main deployes after the reserve because the container has shifted around and the pin knocks out)... or if I had actually pulled my reserve handle at just the moment my main finally started to dump I could have got a main/reserve entanglement.

Needless to say after I got back on the ground I reinked my kill line, had a rigger check it and now I'm watching it like a hawk.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[drenaline 0]

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This could have turned out to be worse and probably would have resulted in a two squares out (main deployes after the reserve because the container has shifted around and the pin knocks out)... or if I had actually pulled my reserve handle at just the moment my main finally started to dump I could have got a main/reserve entanglement.

Not to flame or give you a hard time but aren't you supposed to pull red before pulling silver? or at least pull them both at the same time? good think everything turned out fine. Blue ones bro, now go have a beer

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[PhreeZone 15]

PC in tow has multiple solutions and is just like a RSL/no RSL argument.. its a personal decision.

Chopping it only does sometihng if the PC is able to pull the pinn and cause tension on the 3 rings and cause them to release. Leaveing it can cause a double out instead of having everything fall off if the PC ever does release. Cutting away burns time and there fore altitude in a high speed mal, not cutting away has its ball of problems too.... its all personal calls.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[quade 3]

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What I'm thinking happened was that the kill line must have been kinked up just enough so that I didn't notice it when I tested the pilot chute before I started my s-folds.

Lot's of stuff can cause a pilot-chute hesitation. Did you see anything -specifically- that makes you believe this was kill-line related?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[christoofar 0]

The PC looked fine. It's still new.

Everyone who looked at it agreed that the kill line must not have been completely cocked.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[AggieDave 6]

How tight is your closing loop? Very tight? Also, are there any snags around the grommets that would cause the closing pin to catch on anything?

Although it is hard to have a main closing loop tight enough to actually cause a hesitation like the one you described (with out some rigging tools to cinch the container down and get the loop out), it could have been tight enough that if the PC wasn't fully cocked (only 3/4 of the way, etc), it would cause a hesitation.

Just something else to consider.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Remster 24]

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How tight is your closing loop? Very tight?

I wouldnt buy that as any reason is the PC was working properly.

You say the PC is new? Still could be made incorectly (we had a chat about this very issue about 3 to 6 months ago) and I think it was Bill Booth who enligntened us. I beleive he has a section on the RWS website that shows pictures and text of what to look for (mesh on the bias, general shape of the PC, etc). Well worth the time to go and check it out on your rig.

Remster

[skycat 0]

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Still could be made incorrectly

Exactly...we have been noticing quite a few brand new monkey fists at the DZ that are made incorrectly. White tapes to long, and the bridle had stretched which cause the kill line to be way out of calibration. Have a rigger look at it.

Fly it like you stole it!

[Remster 24]

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Have a rigger look at it.

Its not that I want to disagree with ya , and I'm not, but check it yourself too first! Best way to know how your equipement works is to look at it!

Remster

[kallend 1,672]

A friend had pilot chute hesitation on a brand new PC earlier this year. Turned out it was made with the incorrect mesh orientation (see Bill Booth's note about this in the archives).

My current PC has about 400 jumps on it and the kill line had shrunk enough to start causing hesitations, so I had it reset by a rigger about a month ago, cost $10.

[skycat 0]

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Its not that I want to disagree with ya , and I'm not, but check it yourself too first! Best way to know how your equipement works is to look at it!

The reason I said have a rigger look at it was because he may not know what to look for. Hopefully he will be standing right there when the rigger looks at it though, personally I would be.

Fly it like you stole it!

[docjohn 0]

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Not to flame or give you a hard time but aren't you supposed to pull red before pulling silver? or at least pull them both at the same time?

Going thru 2000 with pilot chute in tow, I wouldn't waste valuable time pulling a cutaway pillow. Flat and stable, pull your reserve. If you end up with 2 canopies out, then deal with them.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[LearningTOfly 0]

Question from a 27 jump wonder:

Is there any advice against reaching around and pulling the pin by hand? I've heard that uncocked PC's supposedly have enough pull force to unstow lines fairly well...

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Question from a 27 jump wonder:

Is there any advice against reaching around and pulling the pin by hand? I've heard that uncocked PC's supposedly have enough pull force to unstow lines fairly well...

Although I'm sure it's been done, if there is not enough drag to pull the pin, then it will be a long. slow deployment on your main. If you hucked the PC at a normal altitude, you're getting pretty low by the time you're reaching around, trying to pop the pin.

[Kbone 0]

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What I'm thinking happened was that the kill line must have been kinked up just enough so that I didn't notice it when I tested the pilot chute before I started my s-folds.

You should test your pilot chute AFTER YOU GET THE CANOPY IN THE D-BAG.

While you were getting the canopy in the bag, you probably pulled your kill line out a couple of inches which is why you should always check the P/C afterwards (just before closing your container).

If the kill line was shrinking, you would have known this ahead of time, had you tossed the pilot chute into the air (for testing) it would have remained collapsed.

[bodypilot1 0]

It's obvious you throw out and look straight at the ground.

Try looking over your shoulder and watching what you PC does from now on, you might have known what the cause was, if it wasn't cocked......

And with "people opening under you", you might also want to learn how to give more seperation in between jumpers, or not to cork if they were the ones on the jump with you.....
When you say "I banana peel out", I assume you meant track?
Opening over someone is not something you want to get in the habit of, as you might have exactly what happened to you again and this time go through the other jumpers canopy.
So, learn how to track for good seperation horizontaly with no one under you or over you.

Incidents like this are totaly avoidable with some forthought on SAFETY before you got on the plane.

Glad it worked out ok for you this time.



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[RedassSkychic 0]

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Question from a 27 jump wonder:

Is there any advice against reaching around and pulling the pin by hand? I've heard that uncocked PC's supposedly have enough pull force to unstow lines fairly well...

This can be done; I've heard of people getting the container open that way. The problem is time, the reason you learn to only try three times (hard pull) or to count to three is so you can stay aware of altitude during a high speed malfunction.

[tbrown 26]

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Question from a 27 jump wonder:

Is there any advice against reaching around and pulling the pin by hand? I've heard that uncocked PC's supposedly have enough pull force to unstow lines fairly well...

This can be done; I've heard of people getting the container open that way. The problem is time, the reason you learn to only try three times (hard pull) or to count to three is so you can stay aware of altitude during a high speed malfunction.

Trying to "fix" a pilot chute in tow is a bad way to spend the rest of your life. I knew somebody who died trying to mess with one. A high speed malfunction is no time for amateur rigging ! Whether or not you pull your cutaway handle is up to you, but get your reserve out and do it quick.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[beezyshaw 0]

I just want to re-emphasize what Ed said about LOOKING at your pilot chute as you let it go. I always look at my pc as it leaves my hand, watch my bag lift off, so that if there is any sort of hesitation I know of the problem immediately. As I've said in these forums before, I assume a malfunction on every jump until it's proven otherwise. That mindset will prevent you from wasting time that can make a big difference in how long you live.

[bodypilot1 0]

Exactly what I meant Beezy, thanks.





Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[billbooth 10]

As I've posted before, hand deploy pilot chute release to line stretch should take just over one half of one second. Any longer or shorter, and you've got problems.

[bodypilot1 0]

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As I've posted before, hand deploy pilot chute release to line stretch should take just over one half of one second. Any longer or shorter, and you've got problems.

Maybe abit longer in a wingsuit, but it's no reason to freak.


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Casurf1978 0]

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Trying to "fix" a pilot chute in tow is a bad way to spend the rest of your life. I knew somebody who died trying to mess with one. A high speed malfunction is no time for amateur rigging ! Whether or not you pull your cutaway handle is up to you, but get your reserve out and do it quick.

I would never try to manualy fix a PC in tow I would go straight to my EPs. But thinking about this reaching around, I would never do it, couldn't it lead to a myriad of problems besides the obvious one of eating up altitude at terminal. Could you possibly get entangled with any parts of the deploying main, if you extracted the pin, also how about poor body position while it deploys.

[mouth 0]

That is so true...I KNEW as soon as I released my hackey on my last high speed I had a problem because I always look out of the corner of my eye as I release it. I took a second or two to try and pull the bridle because I knew I had the time but when that didn't work I went straight for my emergency procedures....no questions asked. I was under a fully flying reserve by 1500 with a hard deck of 2000...not to say I didn't have problems after the reserve got open but I handled them as best I could and landed out ok. So 6-7 seconds from wave at 3000 to reserve pull around 1800.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[Designer 0]

Humm,this why I have been "Trained" to pack the way I do!Cock 1 after laying it down.Check 2 before putting in bag."Cock 1(3 total) more time" after parachute is in bag!No reason for a good pilot chute(good working order)not to work.