mikieB 0 #1 February 15, 2005 Having some large issues with our regional director (wont say which region) and I was wondering how a USPA member like myself can hold a regional director responsible for unjust actions they have taken against individuals? I voted for this person and his been very disapointed with the results. I thought they were working for us, not the other way around. Any Ideas, or am I out of line? any advice on this would be a great help. Blue Skiesconfucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #2 February 15, 2005 I'm guessing Colorado Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikieB 0 #3 February 15, 2005 was it that obvious or did you just look at my profile? but you're right, so now that the cat is out of the bag...confucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #4 February 15, 2005 You may want to be careful how you play this out. The actions of one can definitely mislead the masses. The investigation into the alleged incidents at your DZ and the individual you make reference to will yield a decision from USPA and the actions will either be reversed or be made permanent. Make sure you have all your facts though before making your mind up on exactly which way you want to throw your support to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropzonefool 0 #5 February 15, 2005 What did the executive board member/s of the USPA say when you contacted them about this subject? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #6 February 15, 2005 Stand up like a man and make your accusations or shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikieB 0 #7 February 15, 2005 In a forum such as this, where everyone knows oh so well that rumors are as good as truth in many peoples eyes its best not to make accusations but to ask for advice. If contacting the uspa higher ups is the best way then thats what i will do. Im not going to make accusations because what good will that do... ill say it again advice is all im looking forconfucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikieB 0 #8 February 15, 2005 Sidenote, the alleged incidents, or the one most people seem to be buzing about is only a small fraction of the problem. The investigation into that has already been dropped. The only reason there was an investigation in the first place was because of rumors from people who havn't jumped at the dz for years.confucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #9 February 15, 2005 MikeyB, are you talking about the farmer near your dz, who calls the local sheriff every time a jumper lands out? And the fact that a criminal trespass ticket MUST be issued and fought, weekly, in county court? I was also wondering why the USPA Regional Director has NEVER attempted to contact the city, county, or local law enforcement to prevent and eliminate the constant harassment and legal issuances, including the farmer threatening to shoot at skydivers, in the air and on the ground. Seems like just last month (oh wait, it was) that I had to go to county court with a friend to fight and win without USPA assistance... And this has gone on for years and years, with a blind, or overlooking, eye...--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #10 February 15, 2005 >and I was wondering how a USPA member like myself can hold a > regional director responsible for unjust actions they have taken > against individuals? Easy. Vote for someone else next time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikieB 0 #11 February 15, 2005 PeterK, I was more concerned about the fact that this person is yanking ratings and licenses for no reason, starting investigations based solely on rumors, attacking and threatening those who refuse to talk to her and all around sticking her nose in people business where it doesn't belong... so there, those are my grievances. Im not a fan of just posting to bitch, but this is becoming a very large problem for us. Personally I think the regional director should be helping those drop zones in need and not trying to burn them just because they heard something may have happened or that their actions are motivated by alliances and politics.confucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #12 February 15, 2005 Wow, MikeyB, Please PM me! This sounds ridiculous, and doesn't sound like the way a USPA senior representative should be conducting herself... Even the President of the United States can get impeached, am I correct?--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #13 February 15, 2005 >the fact that this person is yanking ratings and licenses for no > reason, starting investigations based solely on rumors, attacking > and threatening those who refuse to talk to her and all around > sticking her nose in people business where it doesn't belong... I have known DJan for about ten years now. She has not done those things in the past nor is she doing them now. If you feel USPA has no business investigating serious violations of FAR's reported to them, then get the BSR's changed. If you feel USPA should have nothing to say about your skydiving, then the answer is simple - give up your group membership. It's not required for any DZ to operate. >Personally I think the regional director should be helping those drop > zones in need and not trying to burn them . . . You should get the details on the incident report before you make assumptions like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikieB 0 #14 February 15, 2005 im sure you would have a differnt view if it were you in the situation. Nobody is happy when they are accused of doing something that they or anyone else did not do. >You should get the details on the incident report before you make assumptions like that.< I don't need the details on what was alleged to have happened... I was thereconfucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #15 February 15, 2005 http://www.chutinggallery.com/services/safety/far105.htm#105.17 Are some FAR/BSR's more serious than others? What was that saying about throwing the first stone??? http://www.chutinggallery.com/services/safety/far105.htm#105.17--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #16 February 15, 2005 When incidents get reported to the USPA they investigate. Sometimes its determines to suspend a rating until the investigation is complete. I know of a few Group memberships being suspended until details were able to be researched and confirmed. Sounds like the right thing to do. If its reported that DZ X is say allowing unrated people to do tandems then they should suspend the GM and any ratings the people that were reported to doing the action have to act as liability for both the USPA and its members. They can complete a timely investigation then go before the board and ask to have the memberships and ratings permnantly revoked, or they can reinstitute it right on the spot if they determine nothing to be wrong. By doing nothing after having reports of an issue, it adds a HUGE liability to the USPA and its members if something goes wrong before they can investigate and a lawsuit is launched. If the USPA gets the above report about tandems and says "OK, we'll start to look into it next weekend" and then an unrated tandem bounces at DZ X before they can investigate... thats BAD NEWS for the USPA and its members in the lawsuit. As for a RD, you can go before the board and ask them to impeach. You generally have to provide a list of reasons thats enough to convince the board that they should override the voice of the voters in that district and impeach the person. More practical... Run for the position yourself.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #17 February 15, 2005 MikieB, To answer your question, (in caps because I cut and paste) ARTICLE III—BOARD OF DIRECTORS - SECTION 4: IMPEACHMENT – says: “Any USPA Director may be removed for cause by a two-thirds vote of the members present at any BOD meeting, provided that such action was contained in the proposed agenda of the meeting.” I found that by downloading the USPA GOVERNANCE MANUAL, found at http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.pdf/Gov.Man.Sept04.pdf But, I honestly don’t think that is why you asked the question – because looking up the document would have taken less time than all the posts you made here. I think you want a change, and I have to respect the fact you care about the issue(s) at hand. Trying very hard not to make a personal attack, I will say in the most P.C. way I know… I don’t agree with the way in which you are attempting to solve whatever problems you have with the director in question. I don’t know anything about the politics at hand. And, whatever is your beef is not the point of my post here… But I do care that our community (skydivers + dropzones + USPA + mass media + wuffos + angry farmers + FAA) all play well with others. I have some experience in this – as I used to paraglide at a mountain that was closed down to paragliders when the club + city + instructor all got in a pissing match. Ratings were revoked, clubs split in two, angry threads were posted in the discussion forum, rumors flew more than canopies, and Romeo and Juliet were stuck in the middle. It sucked, and for those who used to fly off a few launches that are still off limits - it still sucks. I have kept the e-mail I got from someone on the other side of the fence that stated I was going to die because I learned from the wrong instructor. I am happy to report I turned 30 today – and I am not dead yet. It is amazing how angry people can get – and guess what – we all lost. Anyway, that is my two and a half cents – which you can buy nothing with these days except for a ride on the little electric horses at the entrance to the local Wal-Mart… Perhaps you should goto the next board meeting, or send a letter to all the board members if you can’t make it, expressing your concerns so they can be handled within the governance systems already in place? But getting us all worked up here is not gonna solve the problem, or at least I don’t think so. It did not work the last time I ducked for cover but got shot anyway. I hate to be the kid who rings the door bell and runs – but I am leaving to a place with no internet for a week. So, please don’t expect me to reply until I return. But, I think I have said what I need to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #18 February 15, 2005 QuotePeterK, I was more concerned about the fact that this person is yanking ratings and licenses for no reason, starting investigations based solely on rumors, attacking and threatening those who refuse to talk to her and all around sticking her nose in people business where it doesn't belong... so there, those are my grievances. Im not a fan of just posting to bitch, but this is becoming a very large problem for us. Personally I think the regional director should be helping those drop zones in need and not trying to burn them just because they heard something may have happened or that their actions are motivated by alliances and politics. I don't know the particulars of your situation or complaints but that sure doesn't sound like the DJan I know from when I lived and jumped in Colorado. Based on your comments, I'm not convinced you are bringing this issue to this forum to soley get some generic advice either. USPA governance questions can easily be answered by reading the USPA regs or you could always contact headquarters or another director. What else do you have for an agenda? I talk with Colorado skydivers at least weekly...and sometimes daily. I can tell you the folks I talk with don't really seem to share your opinion of your regional director. pms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #19 February 15, 2005 >I don't need the details on what was alleged to have happened... I >was there What about the incident report DJan submitted do you disagree with, then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #20 February 15, 2005 Quote starting investigations based solely on rumors, attacking and threatening those who refuse to talk to her and all around sticking her nose in people business where it doesn't belong... so there, those are my grievances. I do NOT know anything about this specific problem, but will comment generally about how a USPA Regional Director should interact with the local skydiving community. If a problem is brought to the attention of a Regional Director, then he/she SHOULD investigate, even if it is just a rumor. An investigation of a rumor could be as simple as the RD calling the DZO and saying "hey, I got a call from a couple of jumpers (or local whuffos) saying....." A quick rehash of the complaint will often yield a reasonable answer and determination that nothing really happened, and no further action should be taken. That phone call also alerts the DZO that there may be a perception of a problem, so the DZO can work on improving overall relations and perceptions. Sometimes that initial phone call establishes that there may be a serious or continuing violation, and the problem does need to be addressed directly. A Regional Director should be able to do that. It would be very wrong for a Regional Director to ignore a reported problem just because the local DZO or jumpers don't want to discuss it. BSR and FAR violations are serious, and USPA should be taking a more aggressive approach to management of these issues. With that said, if the DZO is really out of line, contact another board member (perhaps a National Director from outside the region) and ask that person to speak with the RD. If that doesn't work, then take the matter to the full board.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #21 February 15, 2005 QuoteHaving some large issues with our regional director (wont say which region) and I was wondering how a USPA member like myself can hold a regional director responsible for unjust actions they have taken against individuals? I voted for this person and his been very disapointed with the results. I thought they were working for us, not the other way around. Any Ideas, or am I out of line? What, specifically, are you referring to? Without details, we can't decide if you are justified in feeling the way you do or are "out of line". Are the Instructors in question violating the FAR's/BSR's? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #22 February 15, 2005 QuoteI have known DJan for about ten years now. She has not done those things in the past nor is she doing them now. You know everything she has done? Wow, you must not have time for much else."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #23 February 15, 2005 QuoteMikeyB, are you talking about the farmer near your dz, who calls the local sheriff every time a jumper lands out? And the fact that a criminal trespass ticket MUST be issued and fought, weekly, in county court? I was also wondering why the USPA Regional Director has NEVER attempted to contact the city, county, or local law enforcement to prevent and eliminate the constant harassment and legal issuances, including the farmer threatening to shoot at skydivers, in the air and on the ground. Seems like just last month (oh wait, it was) that I had to go to county court with a friend to fight and win without USPA assistance... And this has gone on for years and years, with a blind, or overlooking, eye... If you don't want to go to court and fight a "criminal trespass ticket" don't land on the farmers property. If you do land on his property, it is not "constant harassment" it is "criminal trespass". Of course that is unless he invited you to land there. You would probably not like it if he parked his tractor in your garage. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #24 February 15, 2005 The Farmer McNasty in question here is one of the worst kind any skydiving community has ever experienced. It doesn't matter if it is a student, a low timer, someone with a mal or an experienced CReW dawg coming off of down plane. This Farmer McNasty just can not be reasoned with. There is a good vibe at this DZ, but this Farmer McNasty has always been a cancer to the operation. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #25 February 15, 2005 Note to posters - I deleted a post that contained a particularly nasty personal attack both against DJan and Skratch (her husband) and have banned the person responsible. Both DJan and Skratch are members of this board; the rules against personal attacks hold with them as with any other member. Note to scdrnr - claiming that "it's all politics" then launching into a personal attack is somewhat counterproductive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
