Hook turns

[huka551 0]

What is a hook turn? Why wouldn't some dz's allow them?

Muff Brother 3723

[billvon 2,478]

> What is a hook turn? Why wouldn't some dz's allow them?

It varies. Some define a hook turn as any intentional low turn intended to build up speed for landing. Some define it as a toggle turn only. Some define it as any turn over a 90 or a 180 to set up for landing.

They are dangerous because if you initiate them too low, you may impact while your vertical speed is too high. Some DZ's outlaw specific kinds of hook turns, some relegate them to a specific area.

[huka551 0]

If it is dangerous to turn to low, because it can dive you into the ground, then why would they be allowed or designated to a certain area. "You can kill yourself over there in that feild" And what would be considered low?

Muff Brother 3723

[AggieDave 6]

What would be considered low is any turn in which the point of maneuver was too low to allow the canopy to recover from the majority of the dive through its natural recovery arc.

If you do a turn then have to pull your toggles to your normal staright in approach sweet spot for flare, then it was way too low. If you have to pull to your normal highspeed sweet spot to pull out of the dive then it was a bit too low. If you have to stab the toggles and hope, then it was much much much too low.

You can kill yourself doing many things in this sport, when done correctly, a high performance approach is an acceptible risk and is quite enjoyable.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[FrogNog 1]

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If it is dangerous to turn to low, because it can dive you into the ground, then why would they be allowed or designated to a certain area. "You can kill yourself over there in that feild" And what would be considered low?

Some people ("swoopers") do this when landing for fun. The ones who do it longest tend to learn it carefully and work at it so they don't actually kill themselves. But the drop zone may still require them to land in a different area to keep them separate from jumpers who land differently, to avoid conflicts. (Think fast lane and slow lane on freeway.)

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[2cmyzx 0]

I think on Fly like a pro, Kevin says, " A hook turn is the last thing you did before your ride to the hospital". I thought that was great!

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Should we make you quit skydiving? You can kill yourself doing that you know! If done properly, by seasoned pilots, the risk can be managed. Accepting the risks of doing hook turns or swooping is no different than you deciding that skydiving is worth risking your life for. Hook turns are some time only allowed in certain areas to help manage the risk involved, by having less congestion in the LZ.

[huka551 0]

As an inexperienced jumper, I would like to avoid doing things like low turns that cream me into the ground, until I gain the experience to swoop. I'm still trying to judge when is too low for me to be turning (as someone with little experience), and hopefully I wont take a roll in the dirt (as I have done with most my landings)

Muff Brother 3723

[Martini 0]

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As an inexperienced jumper, I would like to avoid doing things like low turns that cream me into the ground, until I gain the experience to swoop.

Even after you gain swoop experience it would still be a good idea to avoid creaming yourself into the ground on low turns.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[AggieDave 6]

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I would like to avoid doing things like low turns that cream me into the ground, until I gain the experience to swoop.

A large majority of folks that get hurt and killed due to a low turn aren't the swoopers. They're the people that swear they won't turn low. The problem is they don't work on learning how to turn low, how to do so safely (flat turns) then when they need to do a turn (off landing into obsticles) they screw up.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[andyflylife 0]

You can kill yourself doing many things in this sport, when done correctly, a high performance approach is an acceptable risk and is quite enjoyable.

[huka551 0]

I love watching people swoop, especially ponds! Its very cool, and as a newbie a total f*ckin mystery as it should be

Muff Brother 3723

[stevebabin 0]

As an aside...
I was checking in at a DZ I'd never been to before. I noticed a sign that read No Hook Turns. After filling out all the paperwork, the manifest girl checked my license, repack card and logbook. I asked her what a "Hook Turn" was. She looked at my jump numbers and main that I had listed on the paperwork and said:



"You know what a hookturn is..."


Funny how it seems everyone has their own definition. I am glad to see the trend away from keeping people ignorant.

Steve Babin

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[gkc1436 3]

A large majority of folks that get hurt and killed due to a low turn aren't the swoopers. They're the people that swear they won't turn low. The problem is they don't work on learning how to turn low, how to do so safely (flat turns) then when they need to do a turn (off landing into obsticles) they screw up.


Very well said.....

[huka551 0]

Where would one take a canopy control class, to learn how to do a flat turn saftley?

Muff Brother 3723

[Orange1 0]

Is a flat turn completely flat? Surely you lose some height?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[wmw999 2,181]

A flat turn doesn't mean you hang in the air without losing altitude; the "flat" means that the top of the canopy stays pretty flat while it turns, and the jumper stays suspended mostly under the canopy rather than swinging out.

Wings level is one way of looking at it. Skratch Garrison has a discussion of it here that makes sense.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Orange1 0]

thanks!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Amanduh 0]

"Hey guys, watch this".....

[AggieDave 6]

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Where would one take a canopy control class, to learn how to do a flat turn saftley?

Lots of places. The best coach out there is Scott Miller. His class is different then some other top coaches in that he's very hands on. He'll have the discussion, then he wants you to go do a jump and practice everything you just learned (above 1500ft) then go fly your landing pattern and land.

I just took his course again (advanced course) even though I have a decent amount of jumps, its just a good course.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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The best coach out there is Scott Miller. His class is different then some other top coaches in that he's very hands on. He'll have the discussion, then he wants you to go do a jump and practice everything you just learned

That's a pretty subjective statement. Without a doubt Mr Miller is a very good canopy coach (only met him once and not in the student/teacher setting). But there are some others out there who are equally knowledgeable, equally as passionate about canopy flight and who spend just as much time with their students.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[AggieDave 6]

Well, it is opinion since there isn't a test or ranking system out there...


Even if you disagree he's the best, I'm sure you'll admit he's very good and is worth the time and money to get coaching from.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Even if you disagree he's the best, I'm sure you'll admit he's very good and is worth the time and money to get coaching from.

No arguing that coaching is a good thing worth every penny and there is no arguing that Scott Miller is a very good qualified coach. I just don't think people should be saying that he's the best. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But without comparing his instruction with the other reputable coaches, it's hard to say if there is a best ... they're all good ... at least in the case of these elite PST type of coaches.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[AggieDave 6]

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I just don't think people should be saying that he's the best.

Why not? Its opinion. Just like folks say "the VX is the best diving canopy" or "the spectre has the best openings and is the best canopy for doing camera dives" or...well, you get my point. Its opinion. I'm sure you've talked to other PST types, ask them who the best coach is, they'll have their own opinion as well. Hell, some of them will say " I am!"

Nothing wrong with stating an opinion that he's the best out there.

Tell you what, go take his course then come back to this discussion.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[huka551 0]

So where would I take a course with Scott Miller, or any other canopy coach?

Muff Brother 3723