Ron 7 #1 February 18, 2003 OK....So with the big "Night jump debate" that always goes on here, and everywhere else... Have you ever been on an accidental night jump? That is a jump that took off with daylight, but you ended up landing in darkness? It could have required someone to turn on headlights....Or hanger lights.... For me, Yes several times. About 12 or so accidental night jumps. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #2 February 18, 2003 well, yes i have landed when it was dark, or not very much light from when we took off in the daylight. but it's not a real night jump until 1 full hour after sun-set. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #3 February 18, 2003 I need to be able to check both boxes for the same jump. I did not do it by accident, but it wasn't exactly day, either. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 February 18, 2003 Quote but it's not a real night jump until 1 full hour after sun-set. I guess it depends on your definition of "real". Certainly the FAA would not agree with the one hour rule as far as determining what is a "real" night jump or not. The FAA does agree with the USPA as far as what counts as a night jump for rating and qualification purposes and that it must take place at least one hour after sunset. That said, night is the period from sunset to sunrise and any operations between those two times are night operations that require proper training and lighting. See FAR 105quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #5 February 18, 2003 Don't count official night jumps....Only jumps where you landed in "Dark conditions" This does not have to be 1 hr after dark.... Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #6 February 18, 2003 Quote Don't count official night jumps....Only jumps where you landed in "Dark conditions" This does not have to be 1 hr after dark.... i'm not. i was just saying it to put it out there if someone didn't know.later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #7 February 18, 2003 QuoteHave you ever been on an accidental night jump? No...........--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #8 February 18, 2003 I've done a few sunset loads that got a little late of a departure. By the time we hit the ground, it was pretty much dusk. Not night, but not daylight either.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #9 February 19, 2003 Lot's of jumps after sunset but I've never accidentally fell out of the plane. Always decided to jump so to answer your question. NO. Ever notice how the sun works? Goes down at a constant rate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #10 February 19, 2003 >Have you ever been on an accidental night jump? No, I've been on some that weren't planned as night jumps, but I always knew it was dark out there before I jumped out, so they weren't accidental. I can't decide whether they should be required. I think an intentional cutaway should be required, it seems more relevant. I think the real answer is to have 2 or 3 basic levels of license and then add various ratings for demos, boards, night jumps, and so on. The world has gotten too complicated for a single, monotonic license structure to address the needs. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 February 19, 2003 Yup. And those dusk jumps have sometimes been harder to judge landing then my night jumps. It has to do with the depth perception change from light to dark in the sky.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #12 February 19, 2003 QuoteFor me, Yes several times. About 12 or so accidental night jumps. You couldn't tell is was getting dark out and just stay in the plane? Was there an aircraft emergency and the pilot made you leave? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #13 February 19, 2003 I have never accidently got out of the plane when it was dark. Woops... I accidentelly left the aircraft !I've certainly been on loads that ended up in darkness. I was certain that was going to happen as well. I also intentionally left the air craft even though it wasn't planned as a dark dive. When the sun goes down and you get on the plane, you know then and there it will get dark. It's never an accident to jump at night ---- My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #14 February 19, 2003 Quote I can't decide whether they should be required. I think an intentional cutaway should be required, it seems more relevant. Night jumps are only required for a D license. If someone doesn't want to do one, fine just don't get a D license. I agree the cutaway would be very useful training, and would like to see it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #15 February 19, 2003 Circular arguement... It has no answer - -My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #16 February 19, 2003 Actually, Opie, I've noticed on "sunset loads" I can get 2 for 1. Our runway lights illuminate at "official sunset" and the rule is the plane needs to be rolling before the lights are on. We can then complete a standard skydive "within 30 minutes of official sunset". Under those conditions there is just a bit of sun left on the prairie and if there are low clouds far out on the horizon we are treated to a breathtaking orangy red glow. As we climb it seems the sun rises again - albeit just a bit but on the ground it becomes pitch dark FAST. The runway and hangar lights leave our bowl in twilight but I landed out (waay out) on one of those jumps and it was most deifnately NIGHT no matter what the technical definition of the jumps was. It also happened to be my century jump. 3 of the 4 on the load were owed pie (myself included). Apparently my landing out ruined the planned ambush ... but it also gave the posse time to arm while they tried to find me in the farmer's field. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #17 February 19, 2003 QuoteYup. And those dusk jumps have sometimes been harder to judge landing then my night jumps. It has to do with the depth perception change from light to dark in the sky. Spot on, Dave. the dusk jumps made me nervous about the night jumps, I found out that the night jumps were more fun and a lot easier to land. My log book has several entries that read "Love sunset jumps hate sunset landings." Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #18 February 19, 2003 >Night jumps are only required for a D license. >If someone doesn't want to do one, fine just don't get a D license. Well, but the requirements aren't laws of nature, we made them up, and we made up what the licenses let you do. I think part of the problem is that the purpose of the licenses and their requirements needs to be better analyzed in the light of today's more complex world. Two or three levels of basic license plus specialized ratings for demos and wingsuits and boards and CRW and whatever would probably work better than today's structure of 4 monotonic licenses. >cutaway would be very useful training Yes, even though it's not the same as a malfunction it would take some of the mystery and fear out of it. I've tried off and on over the years to generate some interest. I don't know whether it's my lack of sales ability, or inertia, or some other reason but nobody has ever picked up on it. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkpbxman 0 #19 February 19, 2003 Absolutely not.......and I always pull by 2 grand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #20 February 19, 2003 Quote Ever notice how the sun works? Goes down at a constant rate Don't know about that. Seems to go down faster in freefall. But then, that's what they say about skydivers in general: "Skydivers go down faster."Peter (>o|-If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skip 0 #21 February 19, 2003 Though as many have pointed out it wasn’t an accident I left the plane, however that “sunset jump” scared the shit out of me; bar none the scariest jump I have been on in my thus short skydiving career. Dive plan: solo sit, we held at altitude for a bit for an unknown reason to me; you could feel the excitement (ree tension) in the plane as day became night. Green light I hear somebody in a group way in front of me say “find the gas station”, which is across the street from the LZ. I got to the door, thought twice about jumping and jumped. Now in retrospect I maybe should have rode the plane down, I have few jumps as it stands now and this jump was like 30 ago. However it had been a kick ass day of jumping and being the “indestructible” little fucker that I thought I was I jumped. Last out, nice exit, for the first time felt myself transition off the hill into a stable up right sit, got comfy and looked around, “damn it’s dark. Freaked a little went to belly, found the gas station and pulled at pre-defined altitude. Hmm that actually wasn’t that bad, I know where I’m at, everything looks good, I can spot the rest of the load. Time to land, ground, horizon, ground, horizon, flare, ugh way to high, SMACK, crawl back to the hanger. No broken bones but I twisted up my ankle really bad, ripped open my “jumping jeans” and ripped open my knee, didn’t go back up for 3 weeks. Hell yeah it was fun but these days I definitely look at the sun’s position before I hop on those “sunset loads” .:skip Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #22 February 19, 2003 Quote"Love sunset jumps hate sunset landings." While I haven't written that in my log book, I concur. The one and only sunset jump I did (and it was sunset, not night) was jump #13, and resulted in me making several mistakes which contributed to a downwinder which hurt very much and broke two toes, scraped my chin, and shattered my goggles. Not fun. I'm gonna wait for a long time before I do those again, and beautiful as it was to be in the melting sun...and frankly, night jumps scare me to pieces. Not like I'm not scared to pieces anyway...it just makes it worse. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #23 February 19, 2003 You know what I am saying. "hey lets get on the last load" My sorry ass says "OK" By the time the A/C takes off its alittle after it should, and by the time the A/C gets to altitude its dark, lights are on downstairs, cars are driving with headlights. AKA an accidental night jump.... Do I still jump? Yep...I have enough night jumps that they don't bother me... But I am trying to show people by this poll, that night training, and night jumps can be good training...when this sort of thing happens.... Damn it, I know there are no fucking Accidental jumps....but there are unplanned dark jumps....Why do you people always need to nit pick the shit out of things???? Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coconutmonkey 0 #24 February 19, 2003 Ron, I can neither confirm, nor deny any 'night jump' incident ever took place. If such a 'night jump' did take place, I can not recall if one JM, let's call him 'Ron', would have taken the time to orient less experienced jumpers of the situation and their option to remain in the AC if they felt uncomfortable. And if said incident ever occurred, said pseudonym JM may or may not have given a quick 'night jump' brief to said jumpers so everyone who chose to continue would land safely. But I can neither confirm, nor deny, said incident ever took place. Hearts & Minds 2 to the Heart- 1 to the Mind- Home of the Coconut Lounge, Spa, & Artillery Range Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #25 February 19, 2003 QuoteBut I am trying to show people by this poll, that night training, and night jumps can be good training... I don't disagree with this, not one bit. QuoteDamn it, I know there are no fucking Accidental jumps....but there are unplanned dark jumps....Why do you people always need to nit pick the shit out of things???? It's not nitpicking - if you're not comfortable jumping in less than ideal light conditions (for whatever reason) then don't get out of the plane. Unless there is an aircraft emergency none of us are ever forced to get out of the airplane. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
