When is the right time to start sit flying???

[jasonRose 0]

I have heard a million things about when someone should start sit flying and it changes every time I ask. This is what I gathered thus far any input or links would be great.

1) After 50 jumps.

2) After 100 jumps

3) When you have mastered belly flying.

Here are my thoughts and I am sure I will get an ass reaming for this by someone in here.

Solo belly flying while fun gets kinda boring after a while. Two ways are great to work on skills for RW and the 3+ ways is where the learning really begins.
But sit flying looks kick ass and like a challenge many are trying to perfect which has really peaked my interest.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[hookncrater 0]

My $0.02 is that being good at RW and belly flying is not as important as the skills you learn along the way. To me, some of the most important are, in no particular order:

Proper break-off procedures
Proper tracking skills
Awareness of others in freefall around you
Maintaining altitude awareness while doing several things at once (maintaining fall rate, docking, etc)

edit: These skills are applicable regardless of the type of flying you are doing.

Good luck with the freeflying, get coaching...

________________________________________________________________________________
when in doubt... hook it!

[GTAVercetti 0]

Well, i know people with 1000's of jumps who have not yet mastered belly flying. In fact, a very excellent flyer just took out our 14 way not too many weeks ago. So you cannot wait till you have MASTERED it.

Having said that, I only started freeflying about 100 jumps ago. I think i was lucky to have a great RW organizer and a 4 way team right off student status so I have always found someone to jump with and found that RW is fun.

I will back up what was said. Doing group belly work allows you to get into good habits (break off, awareness, etc) in a more forgiving enviroment (speed change-wise, no corking, etc).

there is no set number. I just did it (and still do) until I felt I could do reasonably well on the RW dives I have been asked on..and THEN I started freeflying.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rendezvous 0]

Well eventually solo sit flying will get boring too. The point being it doesn't matter which discpline you take on, you have to keep exploring it for something new. I like to do RW but I'm also practicing sit flying. Going back and forth makes it both fun and challenging. Besides, you get a much broader perspective of body flight in all it's dimensions.

[Zep 0]

I would say it's not so much as how many jumps you have
It's how high is your awarness level
Untill you are able to notice every thing that is going on around you
and account for people not in your line of vision
don't do more than a two way. unless your with coaches


One of my biggest hates is when a low time sit flyer loses it an goes flat
That is a good example of not enough awareness

Gone fishing

[chaoskitty 0]

Its different for everyone. I do believe that basic belly flying skills will save your ass more than once, and for the average skydiver, 100 belly jumps is a good start.
I like belly flying so much that my first 200 were RW jumps, and then I started to dip my toe in to sit flying. Right now most of my jumps are sit flying, because I'm focusing on improving my skills there. But I also spent a lot of time and money on my belly skills.. so I still do RW as well.

My goal is to be a well-rounded skydiver. I want to be able to fly my slot in a 4-way as well as go play in a sit and head down with freefliers. I feel like I'm making decent progress towards that goal.. but I doubt that I would ever go back and focus on RW skills if my first 200 jumps had been freefly jumps.

Also, many "first rigs" are not good for freeflying. Make sure yours is good to go.

[Elisha 1]

What makes a rig (especially a "first rig") bad for freeflying?

[chaoskitty 0]

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What makes a rig (especially a "first rig") bad for freeflying?

A lot of people buy an older rig for their first rig. If it has velcro riser covers.. no bridle protection.. etc.
Just ask an instructor to check it out for you.

[jasonRose 0]

Quote

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What makes a rig (especially a "first rig") bad for freeflying?

A lot of people buy an older rig for their first rig. If it has velcro riser covers.. no bridle protection.. etc.
Just ask an instructor to check it out for you.

My first rig is a mirage G4 which should be safe for FF stuff. Although I did not get the double soft handles until I have more jumps. I cant wait until it gets here!!!!!

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[grue 1]

Achtung! Newbie post:

I talked with my instructors during our boogie, they said to go ahead and experiment. I got into a sit fly for the first time on my 28th (I think. Too lazy to check my log) jump, and kept working on it over the weekend. For my last jump of the weekend, I did a sit with one of my instructors, who seemed fairly surprised that I managed to hold it.

That having been said, I know I want to mostly do FF, but I jump at a mostly RW DZ, so I'll work on RW most of the time, but when there's only one slot left on a load and the others are doing something, bet your ass I'm going to work on my FF skills.

cavete terrae.

[BenediktDE 2]

I think the right time is when you have the feeling you should try something new and your instructor has the time to explain the risks and all the things to take into consideration.

Ask an instructor.
Enjoy!

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[cheneyneel 0]

Funny thing about freeflying.. You have to do it all the time to gain a level where you dont have to jump as much to be a good freeflyer.. Does that make sense. A lot of flat flyers dont want to freefly becasue they have to pay their dues again at something.

People make 200 jumps on their belly with a group and do so very well they dont want to go jump a two way with seperation. freelying you have to jump all weekend as a freeflyer and maybe the end of the day belly way. freeflying is a commitment if you want to do formations(feet or head) but that is where the shit happens too......SOOOOOOOO

Start freeflying now!!!!! it will be harder and harder the longer you wait.............

[livendive 8]

Quote

Doing group belly work allows you to get into good habits (break off, awareness, etc) in a more forgiving enviroment (speed change-wise, no corking, etc).

there is no set number. I just did it (and still do) until I felt I could do reasonably well on the RW dives I have been asked on..and THEN I started freeflying.

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I would say it's not so much as how many jumps you have It's how high is your awarness level

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Its different for everyone. I do believe that basic belly flying skills will save your ass more than once, and for the average skydiver, 100 belly jumps is a good start.

What they said. As I've told you, I don't think you need to become an expert RW guy before going to freeflying, I just think you should become competent.

Some of the things that you can learn belly-flying that will translate over to freeflying include air-awareness, the ability to get down to and stop next to a formation, recovery from going low without corking into people, the tendency to auto-adjust your fallrate to stay level, self-defense skills (knowing when you're about to take a hit and avoiding it), and more experience at knowing when to stop the skydive, track like mad, and open clear of others. In my opinion, it's better to learn these things at the slower speeds of belly flying. Additionally, RW can be fun...you just need to try harder at jumping with folks. If you do end up doing a solo, I have no problem with you sit-flying because you're not gaining any of those belly-flying skills on a solo anyhow. But if you have the opportunity to go up & do RW with someone(s), I'd take it.

This just my two cents though. You're a licensed skydiver and can go after whatever discipline you want (unless I believe it's seriously unsafe, and solo sitflying isn't).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[jasonRose 0]

Thanks Dave your opinion holds great weight to me.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[packerboy 3]

If you are going to sit fly, your rig should have decent riser protection (velcro is ok if it is well kept and will keep closed), stiff pin protector flaps that will keep closed (I'm sure mods can be done most if not all rigs to help this), superior bridle protection and a tight BOC pouch (also can be rigged on most older style rigs).

I have had a premature opening in sit fly by cause of worn out spandex on the BOC pouch, it sucked! I also know someone who had the same thing happen, but had the bridle wrap around her arm which also sucked.

Above all though, you need to know that your shit is going to stay in the container at high speeds while people may be above you (shouldn't be but may be) and also during hard docks which will happen as well.

My .02, but I am new.... talk to a rigger.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[bob.dino 0]

The APF's A Guide To Beginning Freeflying has a very good gear checklist on page 3.

[jasonRose 0]

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The APF's A Guide To Beginning Freeflying has a very good gear checklist on page 3.

Perfect this is what I was wanting thanks for the link!

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[kimemerson 7]

As long as you can pull at the proper altitude, and preferably on your belly -but only because that's how our equipment is designed - and if you can get away from others when you deploy, pull stable, then how you spend the time between exit & pull is strictly up to you. If you did AFF and did it in seven jumps, then start sitting at jump # 8 if you can pull on your belly everytime, pull at the right altitude and be clear of others and be stable when you do. As a former AFF Instructor, and S&TA, I say go for it. If you can't handle yourself safely while on your belly, or if you can't even get to your belly, you shouldn't even be off student supervisoin anyway. So in an ideal situation, the whole question is moot. There's no sound reason we can't actually take a complete novice and teach them to skydive in a sit position from the start. There would be several considerations in the design of the teaching method, but it's not as though it couldn't be done.

[skr 1]

Also remember, while you're figuring out what body
position you want to freefall in, to put some real and
systematic effort into learning the parachute jump skills.

That means gear and maintenance and weather and
spotting and exit separation and tracking and canopy
flying and stuff like that.

Maybe find a couple experienced jumpers who are
good at that stuff and ask them to help you learn it.

Skr

[Airman1270 0]

Shortly after exit.

Cheers,
Jon

[packerboy 3]

Before the plane gets to the end of the runway and into the cornfield.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[HydroGuy 0]

If you watch a video of freeflying and say to yourself "Holy shit...that is awesome! I want to do THAT!", then it is time to start freeflying. No matter how skilled the participants are, I NEVER said that to myself when watching belly flyers turn points.

I just started freeflying myself. I started somewhere around jump 50.

I should have learned to track on my back before I started sitting.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[packerboy 3]

I think that is a skill in itself that takes alot of jumps to learn... I personally practice a bit on every jump. Try doing a couple full skydives tracking on your back and get some tips and advice from seasoned freeflyers. Being aware of your altitude is crucial though, look down alot through your arms.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[RMURRAY 1]

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I NEVER said that to myself when watching belly flyers turn points.

I am the opposite. I started 4 way RW at 30 jumps and will never stop. When will I start sit??? When no one else will jump with me!!!

[jasonRose 0]

At this point in the game my sit flying looks more like someone screwing a chicken in FF. I am definatley better on my belly. I see coach jumps in my future.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!