billvon 2,425
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Laurel 0
QuoteQuote>This is an unnecessary risk that could injure or kill someone.
The above is an example of how using a helmet could have injured or killed someone.
You have taken my response out of context. I was responding to your idea of making people jump without helmets to prove to themselves that they can do it and I think that is ludicrous. It disturbs me that you would recommend people to remove safety equipment just to prove that you can live without it. You never know what could happen to someone in freefall or on landing. It is akin to asking someone to remove their seatbelt to prove to themselves that they can drive to the store without getting into a wreck.
>QuoteIn the case above, I would have tried to take my helmet off and
>prop it on top of my head to see.
No problem at all! Make a jump or two to practice that and you're good to go. It means landing without a helmet, but the benefits of learning to do that outweigh the risks on those (few) jumps.
Please read my entire reply. It does not necessarily mean landing without a helmet.
.....................................................................
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
billvon 2,425
>I was responding to your idea of making people jump without
>helmets to prove to themselves that they can do it and I think that
>is ludicrous.
Personally I think it's important to be able to do. You should be able to jump without anything but a rig and land safely. If you cannot do that, then it's critical that you learn to.
>It disturbs me that you would recommend people to remove safety
>equipment just to prove that you can live without it.
It is an important thing to prove. You must prove that you can recover from being unstable during the student program, even though going unstable is somewhat risky. You must prove that you can land without a radio, even though landing without a radio is more risky than landing with one. Once you become an experienced jumper, that continues. You can't learn to handle a two-out situation unless you do a little CRW, even though that can be dangerous. You can't learn to visually judge altitude unless you jump without a visual altimeter (or with it covered or something.)
>You never know what could happen to someone in freefall or on
> landing. It is akin to asking someone to remove their seatbelt to
> prove to themselves that they can drive to the store without getting
> into a wreck.
Seatbelts don't cause accidents. Fogged up helmets do. Therefore you have to learn to take them off and land without them if required.
>Please read my entire reply. It does not necessarily mean landing
>without a helmet.
If you can't land without a helmet you can't land without a helmet. And the next time that guy's helmet fogs up the outcome may not be so benign.
>helmets to prove to themselves that they can do it and I think that
>is ludicrous.
Personally I think it's important to be able to do. You should be able to jump without anything but a rig and land safely. If you cannot do that, then it's critical that you learn to.
>It disturbs me that you would recommend people to remove safety
>equipment just to prove that you can live without it.
It is an important thing to prove. You must prove that you can recover from being unstable during the student program, even though going unstable is somewhat risky. You must prove that you can land without a radio, even though landing without a radio is more risky than landing with one. Once you become an experienced jumper, that continues. You can't learn to handle a two-out situation unless you do a little CRW, even though that can be dangerous. You can't learn to visually judge altitude unless you jump without a visual altimeter (or with it covered or something.)
>You never know what could happen to someone in freefall or on
> landing. It is akin to asking someone to remove their seatbelt to
> prove to themselves that they can drive to the store without getting
> into a wreck.
Seatbelts don't cause accidents. Fogged up helmets do. Therefore you have to learn to take them off and land without them if required.
>Please read my entire reply. It does not necessarily mean landing
>without a helmet.
If you can't land without a helmet you can't land without a helmet. And the next time that guy's helmet fogs up the outcome may not be so benign.
Laurel 0
First of all - thanks for telling me you moved this posting rather than leading me to believe it had been deleted from the other forum's thread.
As for the topic - I still disagree. I bought a Cypres because it is an added safety feature. I would not practice jumping without it just to prove I can save myself without one. I can land safely without a helmet just fine, but there again, I am not taking any chances. I can fly a Dolphin container just fine, but I choose to fly a Mirage because the safety features are more condusive to the type of flying I do. I just don't believe in stacking up unnecessary risks upon myself, but to lessen the risk as much as possible.
As for the topic - I still disagree. I bought a Cypres because it is an added safety feature. I would not practice jumping without it just to prove I can save myself without one. I can land safely without a helmet just fine, but there again, I am not taking any chances. I can fly a Dolphin container just fine, but I choose to fly a Mirage because the safety features are more condusive to the type of flying I do. I just don't believe in stacking up unnecessary risks upon myself, but to lessen the risk as much as possible.
.....................................................................
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
billvon 2,425
>I would not practice jumping without it just to prove I can save myself without one.
Did you jump without one at one point? If so, then you've shown you can do it. If you would never, ever even consider a jump without a cypres, then I believe you are relying on it to do more than it can do. People have died because they depended on their cypreses to do more than they could.
> I just don't believe in stacking up unnecessary risks upon myself,
> but to lessen the risk as much as possible.
The best way, hands down, to increase your odds of surviving in this sport is through education, training and experience. Sometimes you have to _increase_ the risk on a jump to learn something new. Afterwards you are a safer jumper. A jumper who never goes unstable, never jumps anything but a Manta, never does RW etc is not a safe jumper, even though he is using equipment and doing things we consider safe.
Did you jump without one at one point? If so, then you've shown you can do it. If you would never, ever even consider a jump without a cypres, then I believe you are relying on it to do more than it can do. People have died because they depended on their cypreses to do more than they could.
> I just don't believe in stacking up unnecessary risks upon myself,
> but to lessen the risk as much as possible.
The best way, hands down, to increase your odds of surviving in this sport is through education, training and experience. Sometimes you have to _increase_ the risk on a jump to learn something new. Afterwards you are a safer jumper. A jumper who never goes unstable, never jumps anything but a Manta, never does RW etc is not a safe jumper, even though he is using equipment and doing things we consider safe.
sdctlc 0
QuoteI would have tried to take my helmet off and prop it on top of my head to see. Knowing that the exposure to the surounding air would clear the fog, I may (not sure of timing) tried to push it back on my head for landing to protect my noggin just in case I had an off landing.
If your helmet fogs up you can prop it up! That is a very viable option and there is a chance it will clear BUT the problem I have with your statment is that sometime during the process of findig an place to make the off field landing you have to take time to get the helmet back in place.
Just being propped up on your head does not guarantee you can just slap it back down with one hand for landing.... How many people just slap the helmet on in the plane and it is correct?? Sometimes it requires both hands to get the helmet on and situated so you can see. You will be taking part of your attention away from fully trying to land in a strange place at some point. Even if you can slap it back down, what do you do now if you find its still fogged. Your probably much lower at this point??? Now you have to try and remove it again just before landing, not good......
Being able to land w/o a helmet is a good thing to know you can do... Does a helmet help protect the noggin, yes and in many ways.. I will not argue that point but if you think you can just pop the helmet back in place for landing you might be suprised that it is not that easy all of the time. You also can introduce a number of steps distracting you from you goal of making a successful off field landing. If I had my choice between an off field landing with a fogged lens OR a propped up or completely removed helmet, I will take my chances with the latter choice. The lower amount of distractions by not messig around with gettingg the helmet back on will let you concentrate on the landing and landing spot.
If you can have a nce stand up with a helmet on you can have a nice stand up w/o a helmet.... It is a level of added safety that you gain. When your outside of hte normal jumping permameters that you normally jumpwith the lowest amount of distraction you have the better..
Scott C.
"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"
Laurel 0
I have jumped without a Cypres before but I would not do it again unless something safer came out on the market. I also do not depend on it at all - it is strictly an emergency safety device only to be used as it was intended.
And I do take risks, hence the fact that I jump in the first place, but I see nothing wrong with working with technology, my past and others' experiences, and the education that has come about from those to lessen my risk. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have learned a lot about another viewpoint; don't think that I am not mulling it over, too.
And I do take risks, hence the fact that I jump in the first place, but I see nothing wrong with working with technology, my past and others' experiences, and the education that has come about from those to lessen my risk. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have learned a lot about another viewpoint; don't think that I am not mulling it over, too.
.....................................................................
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
Laurel 0
I agree with you. Nice point.
.....................................................................
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
DanG 1
QuoteYou can't learn to visually judge altitude unless you jump without a visual altimeter (or with it covered or something.)
I have to disagree as well, especially to this part. In my opinion, you don't learn to visually judge your altitude by jumping without an altimeter, you learn by jumping with an altimeter and comparing its reading to your visual cues. And you have to do it many, many times to become proficient. (By the way, I've done dozens of jumps without an altimeter, so don't reply that I can't know until I try it.)
A helmet is the same thing. You don't need to learn how to jump without a helmet. There is nothing like OJT for this type of emergency. If you can't see, and you can't clear the fog, rip off the visor or remove the helmet and land normally. If people want o get the feel of jumping without a helmet, fine, but they shouldn't be forced to. (Also done dozens of jumps without a helmet.)
It's akin to saying, "You need to learn what a cutaway and reserve ride is like, so everyone should be forced to cutaway a perfectly good canopy and land their reserve." Not so smart.
- Dan G
billvon 2,425
>In my opinion, you don't learn to visually judge your altitude by
> jumping without an altimeter, you learn by jumping with an altimeter
> and comparing its reading to your visual cues. And you have to do it
> many, many times to become proficient. (By the way, I've done
> dozens of jumps without an altimeter, so don't reply that I can't
> know until I try it.)
Oh, I definitely agree. You have to start out with an altimeter. But you can't judge altitude visually until you can go through an entire skydive either without one or without looking at one. An easy way to try this is to use an altimeter you're not used to (like a chest mount) jump and try to open at 3000 feet. Use a dytter as a backup just in case. As soon as you pull take a peek at the altimeter. When I do this, I end up breaking off and pulling about 500 feet higher than normal, which I like because it gives me a little margin.
(BTW you have to use a covered altimeter or one you're not used to because the habit of looking at the altimeter is really hard to break in some people. Some people actually do it without realizing they're doing it, as anyone who's watched camera flyers making their first jumps has seen.)
>If you can't see, and you can't clear the fog, rip off the visor
>or remove the helmet and land normally.
Are you 100% sure that a person who has _never_ felt the wind on their face or heard it whistling past their ears will have no problems judging speed or altitude on landing? I think some people would be suprised at how much the wind makes your eyes water under a 1.8 to 1 loaded canopy.
The best way to practice something is to do it. If you are afraid to do it in the air, do it in a hanging harness (the risers do get in the way.) Not quite as good but close.
>It's akin to saying, "You need to learn what a cutaway and reserve
> ride is like, so everyone should be forced to cutaway a perfectly
> good canopy and land their reserve." Not so smart.
You should do that! (with a three-canopy system of course.) It used to be required for the Strong tandem rating, because actual experience is important.
> jumping without an altimeter, you learn by jumping with an altimeter
> and comparing its reading to your visual cues. And you have to do it
> many, many times to become proficient. (By the way, I've done
> dozens of jumps without an altimeter, so don't reply that I can't
> know until I try it.)
Oh, I definitely agree. You have to start out with an altimeter. But you can't judge altitude visually until you can go through an entire skydive either without one or without looking at one. An easy way to try this is to use an altimeter you're not used to (like a chest mount) jump and try to open at 3000 feet. Use a dytter as a backup just in case. As soon as you pull take a peek at the altimeter. When I do this, I end up breaking off and pulling about 500 feet higher than normal, which I like because it gives me a little margin.
(BTW you have to use a covered altimeter or one you're not used to because the habit of looking at the altimeter is really hard to break in some people. Some people actually do it without realizing they're doing it, as anyone who's watched camera flyers making their first jumps has seen.)
>If you can't see, and you can't clear the fog, rip off the visor
>or remove the helmet and land normally.
Are you 100% sure that a person who has _never_ felt the wind on their face or heard it whistling past their ears will have no problems judging speed or altitude on landing? I think some people would be suprised at how much the wind makes your eyes water under a 1.8 to 1 loaded canopy.
The best way to practice something is to do it. If you are afraid to do it in the air, do it in a hanging harness (the risers do get in the way.) Not quite as good but close.
>It's akin to saying, "You need to learn what a cutaway and reserve
> ride is like, so everyone should be forced to cutaway a perfectly
> good canopy and land their reserve." Not so smart.
You should do that! (with a three-canopy system of course.) It used to be required for the Strong tandem rating, because actual experience is important.
Ron 7
Bill, some people are just never gonna get it.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
elfanie 0
Quote
It is an important thing to prove.
Except that when I'm participating in this sport..I have nothing to prove. I will jump every single jump as safely and cautiously as I can...
If my jump requires me to take my helmet off...I would (if taking off my helmet became safer for me than leaving it on). However, I would NEVER jump without my helmet just to prove something. I would never intentionally remove a safety measure just to prove to myself that for THAT JUMP I could survive not having that safety precaution.
One of my JMs that I respect made a comment to me when I broke my leg that I agree with..
I was staring my #100 in the face...jumped on Saturday, but grounded myself on Sunday because of winds. So I figured I'd go to a new DZ and jump the 4-5 jumps I would have jumped on Sunday - and that would put me back on schedule for jumping my #100 on the sunset load that next Saturday! His comment to me? That you jump each jump thinking about THAT JUMP...not 5, 10, or 50 jumps in the future.
True true. So I would never intentionally make any jump more dangerous for me just for the sake of saying I did it. I make every single jump as safe as it can possibly be....
--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings
Laurel 0
QuoteBill, some people are just never gonna get it.
If you have something constructive to say that will add value to this thread, post away - but if this is all you can bring to the table, take it to Bonfire.
.....................................................................
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
Ron 7
QuoteIn Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill, some people are just never gonna get it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have something constructive to say that will add value to this thread, post away - but if this is all you can bring to the table, take it to Bonfire.
Yes moderator lady....
Actually it is in response to how some people (You) will never understand that you are gear dependant.
And also how that is bad.
Now when you turn green I will gladly do what you want in reguards to this place until then you should quit acting like you are.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
QuoteQuote
It is an important thing to prove.
Except that when I'm participating in this sport..I have nothing to prove.
I think that Bill means...it is an important thing to prove to YOURSELF. It is like when you learn to scuba dive, and they take off your mask. It is to make sure that if your mask somehow comes off during the dive, you will react well and stay calm. You are preparing/training yourself to react well under unforeseen problems.
I had a friend whose helmet came off during her deployment. She was just off AFF and doing her solos. She landed just fine. I also had my helmet almost come off during a skydive when I was new. I was able to finish my skydive and deployed stable while holding on to it with one hand.
I jumped a 4-way in Eloy during the holiday boogie without a helmet. I set it down by the mock up to practice an exit and left it behind...oh no! I was able to fly fine and was able to land on my feet without hurting myself at all. It is not my preference to skydive without a helmet, but I did it. I know that I can do it, again, if my helmet comes off or whatever.
I also jumped without my altimeter (yet, with my audible) on another 4-way, and I was told by an Arizona Airspeed member the same thing that Bill is saying. I was worried about my landing pattern, but it was just fine without staring at my altimeter the whole time. As a newbie, I think that I sometimes rely on my altimeter when under canopy too much. I am working on that.
Think carefully about what Bill is saying in his posts. He knows what he is talking about.
Laurel 0
QuoteActually it is in response to how some people (You) will never understand that you are gear dependant.
And also how that is bad.
Nice - That's a constructive opinion I can appreciate.
QuoteNow when you turn green I will gladly do what you want in reguards to this place until then you should quit acting like you are.
Wow - that's about as bad as a "you're not the boss of me" comment. Oy vay!
.....................................................................
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M
headoverheels 291
I don't see the purpose of this person jumping without a helmet. They should, however, understand that it is no big deal. They should be able to remove their helmet under canopy (or in freefall) if necessary. Helmets of the type most skydivers wear are good for light incidental hits, like someones foot in your face in 4-way, and not much else.
QuoteI politely disagree about making people jump without helmets so they can prove to themselves they can land without one.
QuoteI was responding to your idea of making people jump without helmets to prove to themselves that they can do it
QuoteIf this guy were at my DZ I'd recommend he do a few jumps without a helmet to prove to himself that he can safely land without one.
I don't believe Bill ever said he would make anybody do anything. He said he would recommend he do a few jumps without a helmet. As such, the jumper would be free to make up his own mind and if in doubt ask the opinions of others, which may or may not match your own.
_______________
D28695 PoPs #9237
"Mix ignorance with arrogance at low altitude and the results are almost guaranteed to be spectacular"
— Bruce Landsberg
D28695 PoPs #9237
"Mix ignorance with arrogance at low altitude and the results are almost guaranteed to be spectacular"
— Bruce Landsberg
elfanie 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
It is an important thing to prove.
Except that when I'm participating in this sport..I have nothing to prove.
I think that Bill means...it is an important thing to prove to YOURSELF. It is like when you learn to scuba dive, and they take off your mask. It is to make sure that if your mask somehow comes off during the dive, you will react well and stay calm. You are preparing/training yourself to react well under unforeseen problems.
Ah yes! Now preparing for emergencies (like your mask coming off) I can see! but you don't "practice" your mask coming off and staying calm while you're 75' under water...you do it in a swimming pool. You don't intentionally increase your risk...you practice in a manner that is safer...
if he suggested that people mentally prepare for having to take their helmet off by visualization or by putting on gear and doing a mock of landing without the helmet...that I could see. What I can't see is increasing your risk just to practice something...
I practice my EPs on the ground and the plane...I don't intentionally create a malfunction just to see if I will respond correctly. (that's an exagerrated example, I know...but still)
Quote
Think carefully about what Bill is saying in his posts. He knows what he is talking about.
I respect Bill very very much...and I think (hope?) bill knows that. But that doesn't mean he's infallable...or that I can't disagree.
--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings
billvon 2,425
>I will jump every single jump as safely and cautiously as I can...
I would suggest that if you never push any limits at all you will end up an unsafe skydiver. If you never land with rear risers you will never learn how to, and a broken brake line at 100 feet could seriously injure you. If you never go unstable you may have to deploy on your back when you do go unstable and can't recover. If you never jump without looking at your altimeter, and it fails one day, you may well end up either deploying dangerously high or having a dual deployment.
>So I would never intentionally make any jump more dangerous for
>me just for the sake of saying I did it.
Would you do it for the sake of learning? Would you go to a big-way camp (which is surely making a jump intentionally more dangerous) to learn to do bigger formations safely?
I would suggest that if you never push any limits at all you will end up an unsafe skydiver. If you never land with rear risers you will never learn how to, and a broken brake line at 100 feet could seriously injure you. If you never go unstable you may have to deploy on your back when you do go unstable and can't recover. If you never jump without looking at your altimeter, and it fails one day, you may well end up either deploying dangerously high or having a dual deployment.
>So I would never intentionally make any jump more dangerous for
>me just for the sake of saying I did it.
Would you do it for the sake of learning? Would you go to a big-way camp (which is surely making a jump intentionally more dangerous) to learn to do bigger formations safely?
billvon 2,425
> but you don't "practice" your mask coming off and staying calm
> while you're 75' under water...you do it in a swimming pool. You
> don't intentionally increase your risk...you practice in a manner that
> is safer..
That's exactly right! For example - if you want to practice landing with rear risers you pick the perfect day before you try it, a day with moderate winds and soft ground. If you want to practice landing without a helmet, wait until you are sure you are going to land safely and then push it up on your head. Or do a hop and pop without one. Or get a little tiny motorcycle helmet that doesn't cover your ears and try it with that; the sensation will be similar. But it is my firm belief that you have to actually _do_ it in a similar environment to learn.
That mask example is a good one. Would practicing taking your mask off, putting it back on and clearing it above water help you? Why not? Being in a pool (or a shallow lake or whatever) is a perfect place to practice, because you can take the (small) risk of aspirating water without having to worry about a million other things, like dealing with a BC or free-flowing regulator. Is it risky? Sure, there's a small risk; people have gotten pneumonia from aspirating water. But the benefits far outweigh the risks.
> while you're 75' under water...you do it in a swimming pool. You
> don't intentionally increase your risk...you practice in a manner that
> is safer..
That's exactly right! For example - if you want to practice landing with rear risers you pick the perfect day before you try it, a day with moderate winds and soft ground. If you want to practice landing without a helmet, wait until you are sure you are going to land safely and then push it up on your head. Or do a hop and pop without one. Or get a little tiny motorcycle helmet that doesn't cover your ears and try it with that; the sensation will be similar. But it is my firm belief that you have to actually _do_ it in a similar environment to learn.
That mask example is a good one. Would practicing taking your mask off, putting it back on and clearing it above water help you? Why not? Being in a pool (or a shallow lake or whatever) is a perfect place to practice, because you can take the (small) risk of aspirating water without having to worry about a million other things, like dealing with a BC or free-flowing regulator. Is it risky? Sure, there's a small risk; people have gotten pneumonia from aspirating water. But the benefits far outweigh the risks.
elfanie 0
Quote
>So I would never intentionally make any jump more dangerous for
>me just for the sake of saying I did it.
Would you do it for the sake of learning? Would you go to a big-way camp (which is surely making a jump intentionally more dangerous) to learn to do bigger formations safely?
Ok...I sat here staring at my computer, trying to figure out how to respond to this in a way that adaquately expresses my thoughts/feelings.
You're right in that if I thought that going without my helmet was going to teach me something necessary that I probably would do it..yes. I just don't see it that way.
Lets look at altimeters....I think it's a good idea to be mentally prepared for what to do if you look at your altimeter and it's at 8K...and you look at your altimeter and it's at 8K 10 seconds later....what would you do? you shoudl already have an answer to that. However, I don't think it's necessary to have jumped without an altimeter in order to answer that question.
You should have the answer to "what would you do if your goggles/helmet fogged up and you couldn't see..."
I just don't think you have to jump without your goggles/helmet in order to find that answer out...or to proceed with that answer should your goggles/helmet fog.
I can see having an answer to, "What would you do if your brake line broke at 100 feet and your left holding a toggle dangling in your hand?" And I can see practicing the answer (rear riser flare) up in altitude over and over again...but I don't think that I can see doing an intentional rear riser landing without 'reason'.
I can see your point..I just think I disagree with taking risk for learning that I don't see as necessary as you do. You seem to think that it's necessary to do the deed almost as much for confidence as for the actual practice of performance...and I don't need that. I will practice as much as possible...but also be as safe as I can be.
--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings
jakee 1,257
QuoteI don't see the purpose of this person jumping without a helmet. They should, however, understand that it is no big deal. They should be able to remove their helmet under canopy (or in freefall) if necessary
I think thats bills point (is it?). This person was so reliant on the helmet as a psychological crutch that he was unwilling to remove it even when it was much more dangerous to keep it on.
Jumping without one or tipping it back whilst under canopy is maybe something he should do to get used to the feeling so that next time he can't see he can solve the problem.
(course i'm in the UK so no-one can jump without a helmet)
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
relyon 0
QuotePersonally I think it's important to be able to do. You should be able to jump without anything but a rig and land safely. If you cannot do that, then it's critical that you learn to.
I'm curious, do you include clothes and/or corrective lenses in "without anything"? (seriously)
Quote... You have to start out with an altimeter. ...
Kapowsin has a waiver to put out S/L students without one.
Quote... But you can't judge altitude visually until you can go through an entire skydive either without one or without looking at one. ... As soon as you pull take a peek at the altimeter. ...
This seems to contradict. I assume by skydive you mean from the exit to the pull, not from the exit to the ground. For CReW the skydive doesn't really start until the pull.
Bob
The above is an example of how using a helmet could have injured or killed someone.
>In the case above, I would have tried to take my helmet off and
>prop it on top of my head to see.
No problem at all! Make a jump or two to practice that and you're good to go. It means landing without a helmet, but the benefits of learning to do that outweigh the risks on those (few) jumps.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites