Griff69 0 #1 August 14, 2005 As I'm reading through posts here, I see people with many more jumps than I who are, shall we say, extremely averse to landing off. As I thought about it, I caught myself doing something I think is very unhealthy: thinking to myself, "landing off isn't so bad." I've had two off-field landings, one just barely off and one way out there. A lot of us on that load landed off, which makes me think I wasn't the only one who screwed up by not checking the spot. So, while I fix my mindset, I thought I'd open up the discussion here. Chris "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is two wolves attempting to have a sheep for dinner and finding a well-informed, well-armed sheep." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 August 14, 2005 Landing off, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. It may be the best decision you make, that decision that will break the chain of events that could lead to a nasty outcome. Reasons to avoid landing off: as good as a landing area may look, you don't usually know for sure where its obstacles may lie. (To give an absurd example, there is a huge, open field across from the landing area at my DZ. In the middle of it are some stone geese, posed in various poses to look like real geese. Were I heading towards them, I might assume that they would move, believing them to be real geese. They wouldn't, and I imagine kicking one on landing might hurt like hell). Okay, that's a weird example, but off areas can have all kinds of unforeseen hazards that your normal landing area doesn't... rocks. Holes. Slight (or not so slight) inclines that don't make themselves apparent. Barbed wire. Animals. Etc. Etc. Etc. So, given the choice between an off landing and a landing in my normal, "known" landing area, I'll choose the normal landing area. The key is to balance that with "get-back-itis," which has injured or killed far too many people; those people who decide they have to get back to the landing area NO MATTER WHAT. They will bypass good (or at least tolerable) outs because "I have to get back." They are compounding one mistake (some sort of error/miscalculation in spotting) with another, one that may prove to be fatal. There is no shame in choosing a safe alternate landing area and landing there. If you find yourself trying to "get back" from a spot, ask yourself "could I land there?" as you pass over areas. Consider the approach you might use, try to identify the hazards. It's great practice and you might just need to use it some day."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #3 August 14, 2005 Landing off isn't so bad. One of the golden rules: "Land safe, not close". If that means a long walk through Farmer McNasty's field, so be it. Talk to your instructors so that you know the neighborhood. Know what fields are good choices, and have a basic understanding of the terrain at those locations. GetBackItis has been the source of FAR too many injuries. Jumpers fall into a train of thought where they think they have to make it back. Don't do that. Doing that can put you in a corner where by the time you realise you won't make it, you're too low to avoid obstacles, or too low to turn into the wind. Avoid the corner, take the long walk. On every skydive, by 1000 feet you should pick an appropriate field to land in that you're sure you can reach. Once you pick that field, fly the pattern for that field, and try your best to land in that field. Sometimes newer jumpers screw up their pattern and miss the landing area. That's always going to happen, and generally isn't a major issue. The more important problem is on those days when the spot is long and the winds are calm, the minute you open you see that you won't make it back. Pick a safe alternate landing area ASAP. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #4 August 14, 2005 Sometimes having a good spot is a little out of my control and I am relying on the person in the door. Most of the time I'm diving to the formation so I dont get a look at the spot until I'm out. All you can do in that situation is try to be as prepared as possible by looking for outs as soon as you open if you know your gonna have an off DZ landing. But if your doing 2 ways and landing off all the time you need to look in the mirror as the problem. Happy landingsIf you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #5 August 14, 2005 QuoteAs I'm reading through posts here, I see people with many more jumps than I who are, shall we say, extremely averse to landing off. As I thought about it, I caught myself doing something I think is very unhealthy: thinking to myself, "landing off isn't so bad." I've had two off-field landings, one just barely off and one way out there. A lot of us on that load landed off, which makes me think I wasn't the only one who screwed up by not checking the spot. So, while I fix my mindset, I thought I'd open up the discussion here. Good question. My first point is that we can all check the spot on every skydive. I like to start the spotting process when the airplane turns onto jumprun, or about 2 minutes prior to exit. By using the windows all around me I am able to see where we are, what the ground track is, and what the ground speed is like. That helps me understand how much time to leave between groups and where I will likely be when it is my turn to get out. Checking early and often also gives me a great chance to check for airplanes. Too many people either don't check the spot, or wait until they are at the door for a quick look. Landing off the airport can be a good thing if it prevents get-back-itis, but a recent review of injury data at my drop zone (The Ranch) showed that roughly 25% of our ambulance calls are for off airport landings, while just a tiny percentage of our landings are off the field. I covered the topic in a Safety and Training article on our web site at: http://theblueskyranch.com/STA.php. It is article 16 "Survival Strategies Off Airport Landings." NW Flyer also had some great points in his post above. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #6 August 14, 2005 As a paraglider pilot, I dont have a "landing on" attitude. We dont always have the luxury of a flat well groomed airfield to land on. You need to constantly reaccess ALL of your options, look for obsticles... where can I reach (use the Accuracy jumpers technique - look at a spot, is it going up or down in your field of view... If it is dropping, you'll fly past it etc...). When flying across country, I cannt always see where I want to land, so I need to be aware of my altitude and if I'm low and cannt get any more lift, I look for (but dont commit to) landing options - free of obsticles and close to a road or track. The biggest problem is power lines, cuz they're soo difficult to see.. Look instead for the pylons or poles and then "join the dots". If you get too close, there is only one rule... DONT HIT THEM, take a down wind and PLF, but DO NOT HIT POWER LINES (a mate of mine failed to observe this rule and is currently (pun intended) in a LOT of hurt. When I'm jumping .. I can always see the place that I'm going to land (even if I dont know it at the time!!) it might not be where you want to land but you can always see it!! - You just need to learn to recognise it). I reaccess my landing options as soon as I'm under canopy (dont we all?). Landing is inevitable, you just need to make sure it's not your last!! . Oh just remembered.... you also need to learn how to work out the wind direction without the aid of a windsock..... look at smoke/dust, trees/grass and you relative ground speed during a slow 360 turn. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #7 August 14, 2005 QuoteNW Flyer also had some great points in his post above. *ahem* Her post above. And thanks for the compliment. Means a lot coming from someone with your experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 26 #8 August 14, 2005 A couple of points Tom: QuoteMy first point is that we can all check the spot on every skydive Not really. If you are late diver is a group, it may be hard to see straight below. Also, in formation loads, allthough you can check the spot, its hard to change it since the pilots are more in control then the jumpers. QuoteLanding off the airport can be a good thing if it prevents get-back-itis, but a recent review of injury data at my drop zone (The Ranch) showed that roughly 25% of our ambulance calls are for off airport landings, while just a tiny percentage of our landings are off the field. Well, The Ranch is a great DZ, but its also one with very few outs outside of the airport itself. Maybe that data is very specific to that DZ. EDIT: oops, I was forgetting: Krisanne, maybe thats because you dont post like a girl! Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #9 August 14, 2005 Quote If you are late diver is a group, it may be hard to see straight below. Also, in formation loads, allthough you can check the spot, its hard to change it since the pilots are more in control then the jumpers. You don't need to see directly below if you can place yourself based on things you can see such as roads, houses, land features. I've never been to a DZ that doesn't have things that can be used as position fixes along the jumprun. Think about how you would spot if there were lots of puffy clouds and you couldn't see directly down, but you intended to jump anyway...you would probably spot relative to other features, right? Find those features on jumprun and you will know where you are before you ever get to the door. I start spotting well before we turn on jumprun and always know pretty much where I am without looking on the climbout, then I can sneak a look in freefall to confirm position. You are correct that on formation loads, and even in regular group skydiving, you often get what the spotter gives you, but you should at least know about it before you climb out. If the spot is really bad you can refuse to jump and force a go around, or choose to break high if the group configuration allows for that (CAUTION! Too much tracking to get back in freefall can conflict with other groups...different topic, but worth mentioning here). The only time I was ever seriously injured skydiving was on a night jump when I knew the spot was bad, but played follow-the-leader anyway. Boy was I a dumbass. Landing out can be a problem in the daylight, but at night it's a whole different story! Know the spot, and know where you are in relation to the spot, always! QuoteWell, The Ranch is a great DZ, but its also one with very few outs outside of the airport itself. Maybe that data is very specific to that DZ. I disagree. We have plenty of outs on three sides, it's just one side that is obstructed, and there are lots of out's in the distance on that side. Most of the off-airport injuries are from turning to avoid things that were not identified high enough, flaring too high given the tall grass, landing on an incline, and not selecting a good field far enough away and getting stuck in a backyard instead. Those issues factor into an off airport landing at most DZ's. Landing out is not a cake-walk. Sometimes it's the best option, but it needs to be planned and approached with caution no matter what DZ you are at.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,478 #10 August 14, 2005 >I disagree. We have plenty of outs on three sides, it's just one side that is obstructed . . . I think your definition of 'plenty of outs' may differ from that of a jumper from California, Arizona, the Midwest, Montana . . . the Ranch isn't as bad as, say, a Thai military base but it's still fairly unforgiving for people who don't make their decisions early. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #11 August 15, 2005 Quote As I thought about it, I caught myself doing something I think is very unhealthy: thinking to myself, "landing off isn't so bad." I've had two off-field landings, one just barely off and one way out there. what is the out situation like at your DZ, esp for a short spot? If your DZ is surrounded by lots of flat farmfields (Skydance, CA), it's not bad. I managed to land out on my first night dive (just one field over) and it was fine. During the daytime you can definitely get away with a bad spot. But at Hollister, there's a pretty big development just long past the LZ. About a mile past, there are again lots of fields. But you need to know you'll make it back, or stay long. To the sides are hills that are decently steep - winds may be trickier there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #12 August 15, 2005 I came about 100 feet from learning the hard way that visiting outs before landing there is not a bad idea at all. There's ONE damn wire inside the Veterans' cemetery and if I hadn't set up to land as short as possible, I would have found it the hard way. (The really experienced jumpers told me later, when I asked, that the other end of the cemetery is better because although it has lots of plaques, it has no wire.) -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HydroGuy 0 #13 August 15, 2005 QuoteLanding off the airport can be a good thing if it prevents get-back-itis, but a recent review of injury data at my drop zone (The Ranch) showed that roughly 25% of our ambulance calls are for off airport landings, while just a tiny percentage of our landings are off the field. Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 26 #14 August 15, 2005 QuoteYou don't need to see directly below if you can place yourself based on things you can see such as roads, houses, land features I dont know Tom... Yes, you can get a general idea of where you are like this, but IMO its about as accurate as rellying blindly on GPS. Quote Well, The Ranch is a great DZ, but its also one with very few outs outside of the airport itself. Maybe that data is very specific to that DZ. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I disagree. Fair enough... I disagree with you! Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #15 August 15, 2005 QuoteAs I'm reading through posts here, I see people with many more jumps than I who are, shall we say, extremely averse to landing off. As I thought about it, I caught myself doing something I think is very unhealthy: thinking to myself, "landing off isn't so bad." I've had two off-field landings, one just barely off and one way out there. A lot of us on that load landed off, which makes me think I wasn't the only one who screwed up by not checking the spot. So, while I fix my mindset, I thought I'd open up the discussion here. I have landed off a few times, some of which were due to Eloy running a really long jump run to empty the plane of jumpers in one pass... the other times (at the ranch) I landed off due to one of two things... A.) a 360 degree turn/dive on my canopy that left me a little disoriented and I started flying the wrong way. B.) letting go of the plane jsut as I felt the tail wiggle signal for a 180 turn from the plane. both times I made a decision by about 1500 feet and landed safely in a field. Making your decision when you are not sure you can make it back is very important because then you can start to assess the issues with your alternate landing area (some at the ranch have very irritable emus apparently, others have very irritable farmers) so make your decision high and prepar to PLF brother Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,181 #16 August 15, 2005 I've got a LOT of out landings. The idea if you're going to land out is just to keep in mind what's on your line of landing -- if you don't like it, change your line of landing as early as possible. What's your line of landing? What the long-as-possible line is that you can aim for when you're actually landing. In other words, instead of landing facing the road at the end of a narrow field, maybe you're better off doing a crosswind to land the long way. Or, if it's not a busy road, maybe landing on the road is better because then you have plenty of time to set up. Not fun, but maybe better than hitting wires or houses or trees. Or maybe not. Just keep thinking and maximizing your chances of having a big, long space to aim for. Preferably going up or cross wind, obviously. Your judgement of which particular spot you're going to land on probably isn't very accurate, but you can definitely aim for a line and plan to touch down somewhere in that line. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jeth 0 #17 August 16, 2005 Wendy, I like this method a lot. I am getting better at my accuracy now, but sometimes I am still not sure where I'm going to end up. So I will always look out ahead of me and steer myself to the area that gives me the longest "runway" to land on. I learned that one the hard way when I over-shot my target and landed on the runway. I have landed off 3 times and every time thats what I did. Even when I'm landing on my home field, if I'm not sure where I'm gonna end up, I just set myself up with the longest clear area out in front of me. Oh, and I ALWAYS PLF an off landing! "At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #18 August 16, 2005 If you're going to land on a road, be aware that the majority of power/telephone lines and fences are running down a road. Look for poles and fence posts, and if you see them, abort the attempt and land parallel, even if it's crosswind or downwind. It's awful hard to see the wires or cables, but you can see the posts from quite a distance. I always considered roads to be pretty dangerous due to this factor, even though they look good from higher up. I'd shoot for the middle of the biggest field I was SURE I could reach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,181 #19 August 16, 2005 QuoteIf you're going to land on a road, be aware that the majority of power/telephone lines and fences are running down a road. That's why you land the long way on the road. I'd do a whole lot to avoid landing on a road -- the fields alongside it would be an infinitely better choice. But I do draw the lines at power lines and fences. Power lines generally don't run across roads except at crossroads. Hopefully there's a visual hint if otherwise. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Remster 26 #8 August 14, 2005 A couple of points Tom: QuoteMy first point is that we can all check the spot on every skydive Not really. If you are late diver is a group, it may be hard to see straight below. Also, in formation loads, allthough you can check the spot, its hard to change it since the pilots are more in control then the jumpers. QuoteLanding off the airport can be a good thing if it prevents get-back-itis, but a recent review of injury data at my drop zone (The Ranch) showed that roughly 25% of our ambulance calls are for off airport landings, while just a tiny percentage of our landings are off the field. Well, The Ranch is a great DZ, but its also one with very few outs outside of the airport itself. Maybe that data is very specific to that DZ. EDIT: oops, I was forgetting: Krisanne, maybe thats because you dont post like a girl! Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #9 August 14, 2005 Quote If you are late diver is a group, it may be hard to see straight below. Also, in formation loads, allthough you can check the spot, its hard to change it since the pilots are more in control then the jumpers. You don't need to see directly below if you can place yourself based on things you can see such as roads, houses, land features. I've never been to a DZ that doesn't have things that can be used as position fixes along the jumprun. Think about how you would spot if there were lots of puffy clouds and you couldn't see directly down, but you intended to jump anyway...you would probably spot relative to other features, right? Find those features on jumprun and you will know where you are before you ever get to the door. I start spotting well before we turn on jumprun and always know pretty much where I am without looking on the climbout, then I can sneak a look in freefall to confirm position. You are correct that on formation loads, and even in regular group skydiving, you often get what the spotter gives you, but you should at least know about it before you climb out. If the spot is really bad you can refuse to jump and force a go around, or choose to break high if the group configuration allows for that (CAUTION! Too much tracking to get back in freefall can conflict with other groups...different topic, but worth mentioning here). The only time I was ever seriously injured skydiving was on a night jump when I knew the spot was bad, but played follow-the-leader anyway. Boy was I a dumbass. Landing out can be a problem in the daylight, but at night it's a whole different story! Know the spot, and know where you are in relation to the spot, always! QuoteWell, The Ranch is a great DZ, but its also one with very few outs outside of the airport itself. Maybe that data is very specific to that DZ. I disagree. We have plenty of outs on three sides, it's just one side that is obstructed, and there are lots of out's in the distance on that side. Most of the off-airport injuries are from turning to avoid things that were not identified high enough, flaring too high given the tall grass, landing on an incline, and not selecting a good field far enough away and getting stuck in a backyard instead. Those issues factor into an off airport landing at most DZ's. Landing out is not a cake-walk. Sometimes it's the best option, but it needs to be planned and approached with caution no matter what DZ you are at.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,478 #10 August 14, 2005 >I disagree. We have plenty of outs on three sides, it's just one side that is obstructed . . . I think your definition of 'plenty of outs' may differ from that of a jumper from California, Arizona, the Midwest, Montana . . . the Ranch isn't as bad as, say, a Thai military base but it's still fairly unforgiving for people who don't make their decisions early. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 August 15, 2005 Quote As I thought about it, I caught myself doing something I think is very unhealthy: thinking to myself, "landing off isn't so bad." I've had two off-field landings, one just barely off and one way out there. what is the out situation like at your DZ, esp for a short spot? If your DZ is surrounded by lots of flat farmfields (Skydance, CA), it's not bad. I managed to land out on my first night dive (just one field over) and it was fine. During the daytime you can definitely get away with a bad spot. But at Hollister, there's a pretty big development just long past the LZ. About a mile past, there are again lots of fields. But you need to know you'll make it back, or stay long. To the sides are hills that are decently steep - winds may be trickier there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #12 August 15, 2005 I came about 100 feet from learning the hard way that visiting outs before landing there is not a bad idea at all. There's ONE damn wire inside the Veterans' cemetery and if I hadn't set up to land as short as possible, I would have found it the hard way. (The really experienced jumpers told me later, when I asked, that the other end of the cemetery is better because although it has lots of plaques, it has no wire.) -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #13 August 15, 2005 QuoteLanding off the airport can be a good thing if it prevents get-back-itis, but a recent review of injury data at my drop zone (The Ranch) showed that roughly 25% of our ambulance calls are for off airport landings, while just a tiny percentage of our landings are off the field. Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #14 August 15, 2005 QuoteYou don't need to see directly below if you can place yourself based on things you can see such as roads, houses, land features I dont know Tom... Yes, you can get a general idea of where you are like this, but IMO its about as accurate as rellying blindly on GPS. Quote Well, The Ranch is a great DZ, but its also one with very few outs outside of the airport itself. Maybe that data is very specific to that DZ. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I disagree. Fair enough... I disagree with you! Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #15 August 15, 2005 QuoteAs I'm reading through posts here, I see people with many more jumps than I who are, shall we say, extremely averse to landing off. As I thought about it, I caught myself doing something I think is very unhealthy: thinking to myself, "landing off isn't so bad." I've had two off-field landings, one just barely off and one way out there. A lot of us on that load landed off, which makes me think I wasn't the only one who screwed up by not checking the spot. So, while I fix my mindset, I thought I'd open up the discussion here. I have landed off a few times, some of which were due to Eloy running a really long jump run to empty the plane of jumpers in one pass... the other times (at the ranch) I landed off due to one of two things... A.) a 360 degree turn/dive on my canopy that left me a little disoriented and I started flying the wrong way. B.) letting go of the plane jsut as I felt the tail wiggle signal for a 180 turn from the plane. both times I made a decision by about 1500 feet and landed safely in a field. Making your decision when you are not sure you can make it back is very important because then you can start to assess the issues with your alternate landing area (some at the ranch have very irritable emus apparently, others have very irritable farmers) so make your decision high and prepar to PLF brother Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,181 #16 August 15, 2005 I've got a LOT of out landings. The idea if you're going to land out is just to keep in mind what's on your line of landing -- if you don't like it, change your line of landing as early as possible. What's your line of landing? What the long-as-possible line is that you can aim for when you're actually landing. In other words, instead of landing facing the road at the end of a narrow field, maybe you're better off doing a crosswind to land the long way. Or, if it's not a busy road, maybe landing on the road is better because then you have plenty of time to set up. Not fun, but maybe better than hitting wires or houses or trees. Or maybe not. Just keep thinking and maximizing your chances of having a big, long space to aim for. Preferably going up or cross wind, obviously. Your judgement of which particular spot you're going to land on probably isn't very accurate, but you can definitely aim for a line and plan to touch down somewhere in that line. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeth 0 #17 August 16, 2005 Wendy, I like this method a lot. I am getting better at my accuracy now, but sometimes I am still not sure where I'm going to end up. So I will always look out ahead of me and steer myself to the area that gives me the longest "runway" to land on. I learned that one the hard way when I over-shot my target and landed on the runway. I have landed off 3 times and every time thats what I did. Even when I'm landing on my home field, if I'm not sure where I'm gonna end up, I just set myself up with the longest clear area out in front of me. Oh, and I ALWAYS PLF an off landing! "At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #18 August 16, 2005 If you're going to land on a road, be aware that the majority of power/telephone lines and fences are running down a road. Look for poles and fence posts, and if you see them, abort the attempt and land parallel, even if it's crosswind or downwind. It's awful hard to see the wires or cables, but you can see the posts from quite a distance. I always considered roads to be pretty dangerous due to this factor, even though they look good from higher up. I'd shoot for the middle of the biggest field I was SURE I could reach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,181 #19 August 16, 2005 QuoteIf you're going to land on a road, be aware that the majority of power/telephone lines and fences are running down a road. That's why you land the long way on the road. I'd do a whole lot to avoid landing on a road -- the fields alongside it would be an infinitely better choice. But I do draw the lines at power lines and fences. Power lines generally don't run across roads except at crossroads. Hopefully there's a visual hint if otherwise. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
