Skydiving without an Altimeter

[billvon 2,426]

>So, let's say you exit at 10,000 feet instead of the 13,500' to which
>your internal timer is set. What's your internal timer going to do now?

Yeah, I recall the last time Dom did that. He died, needless to say.

[dgskydive 0]

I'm dead? Damn it!! I thought something was wrong.

Dom

[billvon 2,426]

>I'm dead? Damn it!! I thought something was wrong.

No wonder you've been comparing yourself to a box of rocks!

[JohnRich 4]

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>So, let's say you exit at 10,000 feet instead of the 13,500' to which
>your internal timer is set. What's your internal timer going to do now?

Yeah, I recall the last time Dom did that. He died, needless to say.

Okay, go ahead and be flippant, and encourage the new guys to emulate dgskydive and jump without altimeters.

While your at it, why don't you tell them that helmets and AAD's are a waste of good money too.

I have no doubt that dgskydive can do this safely - he has experience. But I don't think you want new jumpers to start out this way.

[dgskydive 0]

John, read all of my posts in this thread.

I stated for the record I am not encouraging anyone to jump without one. It is a comfort thing.

This post was started because I found it amusing that some people will not jump without an AAD. I don't think they are a waste of money at all. I just find it amusing that they need to have one to jump. WHat ever makes them feel safe is fine with me. I have nothing against them. I love hard helmets and think that people that jump without them are asking for trouble.

Plus anyone trying to emulate me is looking up to the wrong person. There are many skydivers out there that deserve to have people look up to them. Me, I am just a jump bum that will sell his socks for jump money.

I honestly don't think our responses will encourage anyone to not jump with one if they don't feel comfortable doing so.

I thought Bill's was a funny smart ass comment. He is poking fun at the obvious. I have done that and all is good.

Dom

[billvon 2,426]

>and encourage the new guys to emulate dgskydive and jump without
> altimeters.

I think jumpers _should_ be able to jump without an altimeter, and a no-altimeter jump is a good way to do that. It's a good backup though - I usually use one.

>I have no doubt that dgskydive can do this safely - he has
> experience. But I don't think you want new jumpers to start out
>this way.

Of course not! It's like a demo - something that's good experience when you are ready for it, but you have to be ready for it.

[SkyDane 0]

I'm not thinking of jumping without an altimeter....I'm just getting scared of jumping.....
How often does it happen that an altimeter doesn't work?

[dgskydive 0]

Very rarely does that happen. Usually you will be able to tell it isn't working on the plane before you get out.

Dom

[Deuce 1]

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I'm not thinking of jumping without an altimeter....I'm just getting scared of jumping.....
How often does it happen that an altimeter doesn't work?

When it happens on a tandem, the camere flier gives up the altimeter to the TM.

When it happens on other non solo skydives, the retard is expected to track and pull with the rest of the troupe.

[dgskydive 0]

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When it happens on a tandem, the camere flier gives up the altimeter to the TM.

Hta happened to me once. I was shooting a tandem video and the TI reaces over and takes mine off anout 2 minutes before we got out. I onlyhad 150 jumps at the time (yes, I know I shouldn't have been shooting tandems at that point).

I looked at him like he was nuts!!! He told me wait till we pull then count to 5 and pull. I think I made it to the "th" of three. That is when I started thinging. "What would happen if mine broke and I didn't realize it until I got out of the plane? What would I do?

I got real interested at that point as to what the ground looked like at 4000 ft.

Dom

[jedeisurf 0]

Hi did about a 100 jumps without not a problem .

[jsaxton 0]

On a 50 way it's usually not much of a problem.
Although I would not reccomend messing around with a bad canopy for long ;)

[Cloudi 0]

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I did over 1000 dives with nothing but a jumpsuit and goggles.

Hey Tonto, I knew you were a bad-ass, but no rig!? Dang dude!!

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[frost 1]

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Look at this months cover of Parachutist. Can you find the altimeters? I only see two and one of those is on the camera flier.

Do we really need to go into how many times the cover depicted something that generated a bunch of "you promote unsafe activites" letters to Parachutst?

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[teason 0]

*sniff*.

This thread is starting to smell

*sniff* *sniff*

What is that?

*sniff*

is that hubris?

Seriously, it's not "jumping without an alti" that is bugging me here, it's the attitude. Saw it before, along with the godlike veneration that the jumper in question received for doing so.

One day an junior jumper did a two-way with him. The junior jumper noticed his alti was broken in the plane but jumped anyway, seeing that the other jumper had 5000 jumps and never wore an alti.

Long story short, the junior jumper hit the runway at line stretch and the experienced jumper and his DZ were crucified at the inquiry.

But, hey, if it's a comfort thing...

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[frost 1]

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>So, let's say you exit at 10,000 feet instead of the 13,500' to which
>your internal timer is set. What's your internal timer going to do now?

Yeah, I recall the last time Dom did that. He died, needless to say.

Okay, go ahead and be flippant, and encourage the new guys to emulate dgskydive and jump without altimeters.

While your at it, why don't you tell them that helmets and AAD's are a waste of good money too.

I have no doubt that dgskydive can do this safely - he has experience. But I don't think you want new jumpers to start out this way.

Couldnt agree more. Coolness is only in the eye of the beholder. When i see a guy with no shoes, no helmet, no alti... i dont see "cool" i see "dumb". Especially when he has 250 jumps (or 300 or 400 or 500... or 2000)

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[skybytch 259]

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When i see a guy with no shoes, no helmet, no alti... i dont see "cool" i see "dumb".

It's that personal risk vs reward assessment thing again. You choose to jump a highly loaded main canopy, even though highly loaded main canopies have injured and killed many skydivers. Some people might consider your choice of main canopy type and size to be "dumb."

There will always be someone out there who is willing to take more and/or different risks than you, and there will also always be someone out there who takes fewer risks than you do as well. Doesn't make those who take more risks than you do "dumb" (or "cool" for that matter), it just means they assess the risk factors differently than you do.

[popsjumper 2]

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..."What would happen if mine broke and I didn't realize it until I got out of the plane? What would I do?

I got real interested at that point as to what the ground looked like at 4000 ft.

Yep...that's the whole point of it all. Depend on a gadget and sooner or later you will probably pay - hopefully not dearly....(flamers, note I said probably)

Friends, friends, dear friends, it's all in the eyes. The ground is not inside that little window, it is beneath you...look and be saved. Use the alti to help you learn what different altitudes look like.

Yeah, yeah...it's good to have one but it's no substitute for knowing what altitude looks like....

Someone said (and I paraphrase) "but what about jumping at a new DZ?". Believe me guys...4k here is the same 4k there and it looks very much the same. Even over water if you have that "over water" experience to draw on.

I personally like a working alti on my wrist so that when I need to clear lines, I can see it right above my face while I'm looking up and it's not in the way when I'm looking down.

How's that for a 300-jump wonder?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[frost 1]

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It's that personal risk vs reward assessment thing again. You choose to jump a highly loaded main canopy, even though highly loaded main canopies have injured and killed many skydivers. Some people might consider your choice of main canopy type and size to be "dumb."

BUT! You miss the point - absense of equipment is NOT equal to DIFFERENT equipment. I chose to jump whatever i jump, at least i chose to have a canopy :)

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There will always be someone out there who is willing to take more and/or different risks than you, and there will also always be someone out there who takes fewer risks than you do as well. Doesn't make those who take more risks than you do "dumb" (or "cool" for that matter), it just means they assess the risk factors differently than you do.

That is PRECISELY why i said "in the eye if the beholder" ;)

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[slug 1]

Hi Dom

Who needs a altimeter or AAD in a tunnel. Save the money for 2 hr's of tunnel time

R.I.P.

[billvon 2,426]

>How often does it happen that an altimeter doesn't work?

In 4500 jumps or so my (visual) altimeter has failed completely twice, and been close but not close enough once. My audible has failed about 3 times due to low batteries, and twice for no reason I could determine. Never pulled too low as a result though (knock on wood.)

[Zenister 0]

i guess there a 'wuffos' internal to skydiving as well.. 'wuffo' you jump without a perfectly good altimeter??

because you dont HAVE to have it....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[frost 1]

Of course. Just like anywhere else, there are all kinds of people. Stupid people are no exception.

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[skybytch 259]

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BUT! You miss the point - absense of equipment is NOT equal to DIFFERENT equipment. I chose to jump whatever i jump, at least i chose to have a canopy :)

Sure it is. You have to have a main to leave the airplane (at most dz's anyway). You don't have to have an altimeter, an AAD (at most dz's anyway), an RSL, an audible, goggles, a jumpsuit, a helmet or shoes - sure, they are recommended (and I generally choose to jump with all of them) but once you're a licensed skydiver you can make your own equipment desicions.

Just as you are confident that you can safely land your main and that you can properly deal with a nasty spinning diving mal on it, others are confident that they can figure out when break off, pull time and decision altitude are using their primary altitude reference device - their eyes.

Put it this way. If you were on the plane at your home dz and someone with 30 jumps realized their altimeter was broken, would you offer them yours and proceed to do your jump without it? I would, no problem. If you wouldn't that doesn't mean you are smarter than I am or that I'm a better skydiver than you are - just means that we assess the risk factor of not having a visual altimeter differently.

It's not a matter of who's smart and who's stupid. It's a personal risk management decision.

[EvilLurker 2]

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It's not a matter of who's smart and who's stupid. It's a personal risk management decision.

Exactly. Somehow, I just don't see myself cratering because I can't recognize pull altitude, if anything, I probably tend to pull a little higher when not wearing an alti. It was quite a few jumps (100+, I didn't log it) before I felt I had a good enough "eye" to not need one, but if you're from a Cessna DZ, have thrown wind-drift indicators, been on a lot of IAD/SL student loads and been involved in spotting, you end up with a pretty good idea of what 2500 and 3500 feet look like, and that's really the only thing that counts. I wear an alti. because when I tell someone I'll be throwing a PC at 3 grand, I want to be precise, not becaue I'll crater without a device to tell me I'm getting low. My eyes do that just fine.
Until you're SURE you know what pull altitude looks like, wear and use an altimeter, but use it to train your eyes/brain, too, just in case it malfunctions on you. Oh, and I have a Cypres, not that that's any guarantee I won't impact, but the "no alti" jumps weren't because I'm a cheap SOB.
Anybody that chooses not to jump because they don't have a functioning altimeter, I can respect that. I've never jumped without a helmet, for example.