Hard Openings Suck

[valcore 0]

Well If you can't tell by the title I had one hell of a hard opening sunday. After the canopy opened (saber 190, falling belly to earth about 120 or less around 3,000) my whole back cracked.

Needless to say it hurt like hell, got X-rays nothing broken (thank god) but the doc put me on percocet.

Anybody have any tips to help slow the canopy down when I pack. I did not pack this one but normally I tuck the nose and make sure the slider is good and quartered.

I have heard that sabers have a tendence to smack you every once in a while.

Hoping to hear a little advice on packing here.

Thanks Darin

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[BIGUN 1,075]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_type=AND&search_string=sabre+openings

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[mattjw916 2]

yeah... don't jump a Sabre...

With these threads being repeated time and time again it is just baffling to me why anyone would continue to jump those canopies. Granted I know a few people that jump them with no problems, but the risk seems to outweigh the benefit.

Dump the canopy and buy something used that is not so packing-sensitive. The cost of a new(er) canopy is a hell of a discount compared to medical bills for back surgery. Silhouette, Safire, Fusion, Lotus, etc are all good replacements. I'd even jump a Sabre 2 over that and I'm not a big fan of that one either.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[dragon2 0]

I know a couple skydivers with Sabre's that open just fine. Not EVERY Sabre opens hard. And ANY canopy CAN open hard, with or without packing errors. Just look at the threads on Spectre's opening hard!

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[valcore 0]

well, what type of main typically has slower openings?

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[billvon 2,435]

>well, what type of main typically has slower openings?

The Pilot and the Spectre are both known for their slower openings. The Spectre in particular has _very_ slow openings.

[mattjw916 2]

Read the incidents, there have been an inordinate number of injuries related to this canopy and hard openings. Do a search, this has been covered over and over and over and over again. People have been killed, broke femurs, crushed vertebrae, etc during deployment by this canopy, this is indisputable. Just because some people escape injury with modded Sabres, or are just plain lucky, doesn't mean it's "good" choice.

If my canopy had a 1 in 100 or even 1 in 500 chance of slamming the ever-loving crap out of me to the point I need to post about it on the internet and seek advice for packing, I'd trash it or sell it to the next person that believes that everything PD makes is solid gold.

When my life is on the line, I like to know the gear that is supposed to save my life, won't kill me randomly (obscure mals aside). I have dumped my Safire out of an 80% track and ~140mph and still wasn't even bruised by the opening...

Every canopy will NOT brake your femur during deployment... but ANY Sabre can. Plenty of people make lots of jumps in "gutter-gear" and live, that is, until they don't.

As far as the original poster is concerned I'd jump any of the following over a Sabre 1:

Precision Fusion (detuned Nitron, HMA lines won't go out of trim)
Big Air Lotus (airlocked, never heard a single bad word about it)
Icarus Safire2 (good all-around canopy, vectran lines rule =) )
PD Sabre2 (best flare out there, period IMO, good luck on the openings, a little searchy)
PD Silhouette (underrated canopy, easy to pack)
Aerodyne Pilot (heard slightly mixed reviews, most positive though)

Of course, you could always go 7 cell, but that's not my cup-o-tea.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[LearningTOfly 0]

I jump a Sabre- it has a larger slider on it, and usually opens nicely if I pull the slider to the front (shielding the nose) when packing.

This weekend I must have been doing something different in packing, because I got three brisk openings out of four, but none were painful... just fast.

The thing that worries me most about hard openings is the hurt that the harness feels.

[fallman 0]

I have put around 200 jumps on my pilot and it has always been kind to me. Except when u pull in a track
I would definitely recommend it if ur looking for softer openings.

woa....that was cool....

[fueler 0]

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And ANY canopy CAN open hard, with or without packing errors.

yup. im about to burn my sabre2. i havent been this sore since....shit, i dont think i ever have been this sore. getting whacked sucks donkey balls. there is nothing i would rather do than skydive, but right now the last thing i want to do is expearience an opening like i had on sunday

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what!?

[n23x 0]

I also had a Sabre190, and got whacked infrequently, though I can sympathize. Do not, however, listen to Matt, because most sabre's are not "gutter gear". They simply require more attention to packing.

Making sure the slider is really evenly quartered and all the way to the stops is critical. This seems often overlooked in the days of lazy, sloppy packing.

You will find a lot of different opinions about the Sabre online here. And, as above, you will see a lot of people trashing them who likely haven't jumped one.

Take the time to figure yours out and learn to control the pack, and it will become a great canopy.

The search link provided in an above post will also lead to other possible tricks to control the sabre opening.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[mattjw916 2]

...and you probably think the Nova is an acceptable canopy too.

The point is that there are faaaar better options than an old out-of-production canopy that has a well-documented history of beating its owners repeatedly until they quit, sell it, or get injured.

How many threads have there been on that stupid canopy? Do a search for "Sabre hard opening" and you will get 21 pages of carnage including lovely highlights such as a broken neck, torn aorta, broken femur, crushed vertebrae, the list goes on and on.

But of course, it must be the pack job or my favorite, body position... it can't possibly be the canopy...

Get a decent canopy and you won't stress over the pack job or have to waste time rolling the nose or whatever other packing tip-of-the-moment someone posts this week.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[phoenixlpr 0]

It can be a production fault too. Check it! If it was produced on Monday, you shouldn't be surprised.

Or was it Wednesday ?

[bodypilot90 0]

sell it and get a spectre, like Bill said. I know a someone who can no longer jump because of a saber opening.

I had a saber, now have a spectre wouldn't go back if you gave me a saber.

[UntamedDOG 0]

The guy who died at Cal City a few weeks back was jumping a Spectra 190. He had an opening that broke all the lines on his front riser. The rumor was that his packing technique wasn’t so good. This so called “soft opening” canopy still caused a fatality.

You need to accept that packing has a lot to do with the way that your parachute is introduced to that 120mph wind stream above your head.

Read the tips in all those Sabre threads. They will help your openings tremendously.

[Nutz 0]

My Safire2 gave me the hardest opening I ever had on the 13th jump. I haven't jumped since.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[billbooth 10]

It you really want to cut your chances of being injured on a hard opening, don't jump "no stretch" lines. Get Dacron instead. Read the current "gear and rigging" thread for more info.

[phoenixlpr 0]

What is the reason that some canopies with "no stretch" lines open just fine?

[valcore 0]

Hmm well thanks for all the advise I'll keep it all in consideration.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[popsjumper 2]

I love my Aerodyne Triathlon 190. It is so responsive to the amount of slider pulled out the nose...it's like a fine adjustment. An inch in or out makes a noticable difference. I can make it pop or I can make it snivel a long way. I can make it open instantaneously (tried it once, survived, and will never do that again!) or 1200 feet...I love it. I like it best in the 800-1000 position.

~330 jumps on it:
1 whack (intentional pack, see above)
2 line-twist jumps
2 long-ass snivels
335 beautiful, smooth, easy, on-heading openings.

Yeah, I'm proud of it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[phoenixlpr 0]

I think he needs a proper sized slider not a new or different canopy.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

I think he needs a proper sized slider not a new or different canopy.

Very possible....or pay more attention to slider placement, eh?

You know, you raise a good point. In my short career, I've seen several mis-sized sliders being replaced...it's funny to hear some say that there's not a big difference in slider size and/or material but when our rigger replaces one, it has always cured the problem.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[phoenixlpr 0]

I have not met this problem by myself. I had no Sabre, I had no jumps with Sabre.

Slider placement can be a good trick, but you don't need any special trick with a fine canopy.

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

I jump a 170 sabre. The only time this canopy really put me into my harness is when it was packed without the nose being pushed into the tail. I now roll the nose, bring the slider out infront of the nose to catch the air, and roll the tail for consitant openings.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[Marion 0]

Hey Darin. Between this and your sinus issues, you're not doing well dude. Have you been talking about Dave's mom?

My first canopy was a Sabre, which I flew for 75-ish jumps. It never slammed me, but 75 jumps is a really small sample size.

My Sabre was very sensitive to packing technique, so much that once I got my method figured out, I wouldn't want to jump someone else's pack job on it. If you pack it yourself, it's easier to adjust your method to give you the best openings possible, since you know exactly how it was packed and how the opening felt. Next time you're packing, just grab me and I'll show you how I used to pack mine. I got the best openings when I focused on keeping the slider tight against the stops (roll the center part of the tail tight and hold it there as you put the canopy on the floor so the slider doesn't move) and rolling each group of four outside cells in toward the center cell while keeping the center cell out.

Also- like someone said earlier... some canopies don't need packing tricks to open nicely. And it never hurts to say, "Dave's mom is a lovely lady" as you deploy.

See ya this weekend.

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