Do you want to see video of skydivers burning in?

[Vectracide 0]

In light of they most inappropriate post of a link that led to a skydiving fatality video, I was very surprised to see how many thought that it was a defendable action.

Personally I was appalled that someone that is a skydiver, albiet a low timer, would think that it was accepable to do so. Perhaps those in the sport for a period of time that allows them to see death have a different perspective than those that are fresh and unjaded.

Just in case you are wondering, I picked the top one. The posting of that video was totally wrong and had absolutely no educational value to us as skydivers what-so-ever.


Multiple answers allowed.

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Controlled and Deliberate.....

[jjiimmyyt 0]

I voted Yes, but only if I could learn from it. (even the impact).

I'd really not rather watch but if I can gain knowledge and improve mine and others safety from the 'mistakes' of others then I think it is worthwile. Definatly not pleasant though.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[Scoop 0]

I think if it has an educational purpose and you dont see the ultimate conclusion then its OK. But still should only be used with families permission.

[artistcalledian 0]

can i ask...

what do people think they can learn from it?

do they think they will learn if people die or not from the impact?

do they think they will learn what to do in an emergency from watching it?

do they think they will lean how to hit the ground from watching it?

do they think it will teach them about some kind of new danger?

just exactly what do you think a skydiver will learn from watching that kind of thing?

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[bdbrown 0]

Quote

can i ask...

what do people think they can learn from it?

do they think they will learn if people die or not from the impact?

do they think they will learn what to do in an emergency from watching it?

do they think they will lean how to hit the ground from watching it?

do they think it will teach them about some kind of new danger?

just exactly what do you think a skydiver will learn from watching that kind of thing?

my thoughts exactly

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[ladyskydiver 0]

Some people learn by doing - i.e. intentionally inducing a mal and performing a cut-a-way.

Some people learn by talking - aka lectures, classes, pictures showing what a mal would look like, etc.

Others learn by watching - aka videos (showing mals, cut-a-ways, etc.).

Some, it takes a combination of all of the above.


I voted - if I can learn something from it (both ones showing impact and ones not showing).

I'd probably be the first to hide my face into the nearest person's shoulder when the impact came , but I, also, know that other people learn in other ways and can accept that fact.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[NWFlyer 2]

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just exactly what do you think a skydiver will learn from watching that kind of thing?

That this sport can be merciless and unforgiving.

However, I think that can be learned by reading incident reports. I think the vast majority of us will know someone who dies while participating in this sport, some sooner than later in their tenure in this sport. I'm not sure we need what basically amounts to snuff films to get the message across. But that's me.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Vectracide 0]

Bravo....

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Controlled and Deliberate.....

[bdbrown 0]

I would like to know just what you are learning from seeing someone bounce? How high a rebound a body gets? How messy it can be? BS nobody should have to see that.....Now the events that led to the bounce can be educational but not the the bounce itself

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[artistcalledian 0]

pleae don't think i'm trying to preach to any of you, because i'm not (15 jumps )

but i don't see what anybody can learn from watching an 11 boy simply falling to his death with no parachute opening at all, no malfunction to observe and learn what to do if you have the same, no incorrect EP's to teach you what order you really should do things in, no pulling too low to teach you to be alti aware... just a body falling and going "thud"

i can't learn anything from that

unless this topic is about other people going in, in which case i'll go and put my dunce cap on and sit in the corner

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[billvon 2,478]

>what do people think they can learn from it?

Depends on the incident. Chris Martin? That tiny canopies can kill you even before you hit the ground. Michele Spray? That a) you should always have a canopy out before impact and b) you should arm your cypres at the DZ, not at home. Tom Piras? That a) getting kicked in freefall should be avoided at all costs and b) a cypres doesn't work when it's off.

>do they think they will learn if people die or not from the impact?

Nope, more about avoiding said impact.

>do they think they will learn what to do in an emergency from watching it?

Again, depends on the scenario. In the cases listed above - yes.

>do they think they will lean how to hit the ground from watching it?

Dumb question.

>do they think it will teach them about some kind of new danger?

For some skydivers - yes. They will learn that they really can die, something that some skydivers have not internalized.

[Floats18 0]

I think we can learn a lot from malfuction videos, especially ones from the jumper's point of view. They teach us what malfunctions look like and show us how the jumper solved his/her problem.

The posted video was not a malfunction video you can learn from. You could clearly learn something from the story behind the video, but watching the video itself will not teach any new skydiving skills.

In this sport is is extremely important to learn from those who came before us, including ones that made mistakes, so that we can enjoy it safely.

I personally believe that no sport parachutist has anything to gain from watching the posted video. (Not a flame for the poster)

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[peregrinerose 0]

I have no desire to witness a fatality/injury or a video showing the same. I can learn from video of the mal itself (ending prior to the impact), or from incident reports, or seeing video of similar mals that were non fatal.

I can learn how to drive safely without seeing "Faces of Death" or related videos, this is no different.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Orange1 0]

I agree re the bits you can learn from (ie the mal) - kinda like reading incidents - but I do NOT want to see the end of it. Exactly the same as I know I can die driving my car, but I don't rubberneck at accident scenes to see the aftermath.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[vt1977 0]

First point - I'm an adult and as a matter of principle I really don't see why the thought police should be moderating my viewing.

I don't particularly want to watch anyone go in - whether on video or for real - but in this sport it happens and if we can learn something from a video then I can't see that watching it is a bad thing.

My final point, if watching a video of somebody impacting makes just one person think twice before going to their local DZ and doing something stupid then that's not a bad thing either.

Vicki

[WILDBILLAQR 0]

If there is something that can be learned by watching then yes. For some people it can be a wake-up that the ground is hard. On vidio its better than watching it live.I hope nobody ever has to actually see a friend go in.
I'll never forget the sound

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"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

[flyangel2 2]

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First point - I'm an adult and as a matter of principle I really don't see why the thought police should be moderating my viewing.

Where the hell is that hand clapping icon. Good on you.

Vectracide, if you are talking about the video of the 11 year old kid that went it, it really didn't show him hitting the ground.

~He was too far away
~He went behind a hill of some kind

Also, if a video like that is given the option to be shown to a group of first time students, I believe that they will learn how fast things will happen if you don't get some thing over your head.

I've been around for a long time now, and have seen my share of bounces. I've been the first to the body in all of them but a few. Death is part of this sport, and if you haven't figured that out, you are living in a dream world.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[artistcalledian 0]

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First point - I'm an adult and as a matter of principle I really don't see why the thought police should be moderating my viewing.

as an adult, do you believe you should be allowed to watch anything as long as you want to?

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[BillyVance 34]

I've seen one... on a McGowan video compilation. Some dude got hung up on another jumper under canopy and waited too long to cut away, impacted at line stretch under reserve. Thankfully beyond the rise so I didn't see the actual impact.

I have seen real impacts personally. They really really suck...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kelpdiver 2]

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as an adult, do you believe you should be allowed to watch anything as long as you want to?

Yes, but that's a very different question from 'should you provide anything on video that you have.'

Most burn in videos don't need to show impact. Canopy crashes are probably the exception.

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

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First point - I'm an adult and as a matter of principle I really don't see why the thought police should be moderating my viewing.

as an adult, do you believe you should be allowed to watch anything as long as you want to?

Yes. I can make my own decisions. Last time I looked there were no police in my house telling me what I could or couldn't watch on T.V. on the Internet or DVDs that I make.

And don't take this to the level of porn with kids. I'm not talking about that.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[namgrunt 0]

when I was in sheriff dept. I went to a 3 day training program. It made a lasting impact on me.
We were shown actual police death videos and then discussed what caused this incident.We heard audio tapes of officers shot,and passeing away.

it makes you concous of the fact it CAN happon to you.

yes they were VERY hard to take ,and many ruff/tuff cops were crying but you went back to work whith this info and thus made you a safer officer.

if those jumpers that we suspect (buy there actions) are likely to burn in it may be a good thing to set them dowm and turn on the tape.

there is a popular mag. that has a standing offer of $10,000 for high quality death pictures of skydivers. this offer was made to me ..I reported him to the DZO who kicked him off the dz..what slime

if you want to watch these videos for a thril ..you need help

I for 1 do not want to see them..ever

..

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[vt1977 0]

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as an adult, do you believe you should be allowed to watch anything as long as you want to?

Short answer - yes. I am capable of making a decision for myself about what does and does not constitute appropriate viewing. I can just about see some logic in not allowing viewing of certain illegal activities, but this discussion perhaps belongs elsewhere...

BUT when a video relates directly to the safety of my weekend activities I feel I should be able to view it if I feel I want to. This is not because I want to watch someone bounce - I've seen that for real and, trust me, those images are imprinted in my brain forever - it's because I feel I may learn something.

Vicki

Edited to clarify...

[brits17 0]

I think its absolutely appropriate. There are several things that can be learned through watching instead of simply reading.

When I had 10 BASE jumps, I was shown a video of many different jumpers going in. You could never really see blood and guts but it presented many different situations and the events that went wrong. I had heard of several of them, but it didn't really hit me until I actually watched it. I read the fatality list, I was a gung-ho jumper and although I always knew 'it could happen to me' I didn't catch the full impact (seriously no pun intended) until after seeing it for myself.

Initially, I learned what I just stated. It made me think twice about the endeavor I am pursuing and if its worth the risk of continuing. Many new jumpers (skydivers included) are so excited that they never really catch all the things that CAN go wrong.

I saw wall strikes, skydives gone wrong, impacts with nothing out and canopy malfunctions to name a few. What was the series of events leading up to a fatality? Sometimes it was wind conditions, sometimes it was a different rig configuration, sometimes it was complacency and sometimes it was a packing error.

I could hear about these situations all day long, but seeing it helped me personally assess the conditions leading to a death and how to avoid them.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[Vectracide 0]

BINGO!

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Controlled and Deliberate.....