looking for simple answers for general questions

[srsand1960 0]

a) To obtain an A license there are several criteria. A lot of the prerequisites appear to be what I am executing through AFF training. Shouldn’t I be getting sign off on the Proficiency Card and Application while going through the excercises? Or do I prove proficiency after I go through the 8 levels.

b) What is a flat altitude turn?

c) If I want to learn to back-fly and sit-fly is it easier to learn in a wind-tunnel or in the air?

d) Is this a correct thought? I should be able to execute everything under canopy using the rear risers.

e) If I stall my chute while at a high altitude can it collapse to the point of malfunction?

f) If your canopy descends quicker in warm air and reacts to toggle movements with lethargy should you come to ¼ breaks about 100 ft?
Would that help the reaction time of a full flare?

g) Shouldn’t spotting a jump be done in the cone of maneuverability?

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[skymedic 0]

A) Yes you should be being signed off as long as you have PROVEN proficiency...not just have completed them.

B) also known as a flat turn....it is a minimal loss of altitude turn. using both toggles to turn in one direction. Do a search for flat turns...we have several threads on the subject.

C) Tunnel...but that's just my opinion. and you know what they say about opinions.

D) as in??? flaring? yes Turns? yes

E) Yes...this is why you practice stalls above your hard deck

F) No...it would not. stay at full flight untill it is time to flare

G) yes...but then again...if you have a ram air parachute...you can really land anywhere...as long as it's safe.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[srsand1960 0]

Thank you for answering all the questions.

I will look up flat turn threads.

As far as question f) goes; I read that if there are thermals present or you are landing within 1000 ft of a deep tree line it can create turbulence and you should come in at ¼ to ½ breaks to combat potential partial collapse. Do you agree with this?

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[MB38 0]

I would talk to your instructors about all of your questions. It's great to get information on here, but always confirm it.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[srsand1960 0]

I don't have one

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[kelpdiver 2]

what do you mean, you don't have one? You can't be learning this stuff here. My profile says I'm not qualified, and even it if did, how do you know?

Most (all?) would not suggest brakes for flying in turbulence.

[srsand1960 0]

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what do you mean, you don't have one? You can't be learning this stuff here. My profile says I'm not qualified, and even it if did, how do you know?

Most (all?) would not suggest brakes for flying in turbulence.

What I mean is that my instructor was killed the day before my 10th jump and they closed the DZ to student jumpers. I picked up 2 jumps at some other DZ outside of Chicago, and another jump at Z-hills. I go back to Z-hills next Weds and will do 6 more jumps out there and do more tunnel time to learn the dynamics of back-flying. As far as learning stuff on this site goes scubadude, I have 13 jumps... I can learn anywhere. If the answers seem logical and safe, I take what I want and leave the rest. Besides, there are enough experienced divers with Instructor ratings monitoring this site that if someone gives an answer that is incorrect, they are all over the answer. It starts quite the thread I have seen it here... my opinion of this place is that it is a wealth of information. Are you telling me that you have not learned on this site? If I couldn’t learn here I wouldn’t waiste my time at all? The giving, sharing and genuine concern for safety on this site is demonstrated throughout the words written on its virtual pages.

It was suggested to me that I read Poynter’s and Turoff’s “The Skydiver’s Handbook”. Good idea… GREAT idea! I’ve spent the last month really studying it. A lot of the information that I am reading in the USPA SIM coincides with references somewhere in that book.

First paragraph on page 158 states the following; Turbulence. As mentioned earlier, bumpy air may be encountered at any altitude and it has been known to close end cells and upset canopies. Jumpers have been robbed of their wings to be left back in freefall at 75 feet. Bumpy air may occur on windy days and on hot, no-wind days. Keep your canopy inflated during turbulence by flying at one-quarter to one-half brakes and make gentle turns. If turbulence causes a partial canopy collapse of your canopy, bring the steering lines down to half to three-quarters brakes to help the canopy reinflate. This is a statement that I question… and what a better place to do then here. Where you have experienced jumpers (like Samuri136, Bigun, RiggerRob, Billvon, AFFI, and even Skymedic with his 1 jump but a class C license
Thanks for your answers

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[monkycndo 0]

Per the SIM, you can expect turbulence down wind from the obstruction a distance that is 10 to 20 times the height of an obstruction(building-trees) . This is just a general rule of thumb. As the others have said before, always rely on your local instructor for information because they should know the local conditions and your skills.

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[srsand1960 0]

Thanks... I just got my SIM last week.... haven't put it down yet

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[mark 102]

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e) If I stall my chute while at a high altitude can it collapse to the point of malfunction?

On every student chute I've jumped, the answer would be: unlikely.

If you pull the tail down far enough that it is below the nose lines, you reverse the airflow and the canopy attempts to fly backwards. In addition to pulling the brake lines down, you are also pulling them toward the center, so the ends meet -- looks a bit like a line-over. This configuration is rarely symmetrical, so it usually spins. The pilot chute trails in front of the nose. You shouldn't try to land the canopy this way, but there's nothing tangled, so I wouldn't call it a malfunction.

When you let up on the brakes, the canopy surges forward as it recovers to normal flight. One side of the canopy usually recovers (inflates) before the other, resulting in a turn, spin, or violent spin until the other side inflates. The surge could possibly result in a pilot chute under the nose, and depending on how far under the nose it is it may be a malfunction, but I haven't had a pilot chute under on any student canopy stall recovery I've done. Whether you get a turn, spin, or violent spin depends a lot on wing loading. Under light loadings typical of student canopies, it's rare to get line twists. What you finish up with is a likely to be a normally flying canopy after a really fun ride.

Mark

[riggerrob 558]

a) You have to prove proficiency, then ask your instructor to sign your card during the de-brief. Ask him/her to sign your card while the dive is still fresh in his mind.

b) Flat turns are done by pulling 1/4 brakes on one side and half brakes on the other. This causes slow turns with minimal lose in altitude. There are several variations on flat turns, some including as much as 7/8 brakes. Flat turns are best practiced - several times above 2,000' - before you try them in the landing pattern (i.e. near the target and below 1,000'.).

c) Achieve competence and confidence at belly-flying before trying any other orientation.
Note, the better sit-flying coaches recommend mastering fall-rate, tracking, etc. on your belly before attempting them in a sit.
Once you have mastered those skills on your belly, THEN go try sitting in a tunnel.

d) You should be able to do MOST canopy manuvers using only rear risers. Again, practice them up high several times before doing them near landing.
The only exceptions are harness turns (only relevant on smaller canopies) and front riser turns.

e) You can stall most student canopies without fear of them malfunctioning.
Furthermore, most student canopies are de-tuned with extra-long steering lines to prevent students from stalling them.
To learn the finer points of stalling student canopies, ask your instructor.
However all this changes when you transition to smaller canopies, which can dive and twist up and become unlandable. Every time you jump a new canopy, you get to repeat all the canopy exercises taught by your AFF instructors, plus a couple of new exercises specific to the new class of canopy.
It may take you a half dozen jumps or a half a hundred jumps to master a new canopy, but they key point is that every new canopy requires you to explore the corners of its envelope and learn new skills.
While exploring the corners of a canopy's envelope, use the tricks of old, grey test pilots: sneak up on the limits a little bit more each jump.

f) Flying final approach in 1/4 brakes will only slow the flare. You see, flaring is all about converting forward speed into lift. The slower you fly, the less forward energy you have to convert into lift.

g) Yes! If you want to land on the DZ.
If you don't care about landing on the DZ, then spot anywhere, but off-landing skills are best learned after you have 50 or more jumps and have decent accuracy skills.

[srsand1960 0]

Thanks great answer mark!

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[srsand1960 0]

Again... excellent advice Riggerrob! I think Thursday when I go to Orlando I'll work on my belly fly in the tunnel and spend most of my time at Z-hills talking, jumping and debriefing Thanks again!

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[OSOK 0]

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As far as learning stuff on this site goes scubadude, I have 13 jumps... I can learn anywhere. If the answers seem logical and safe, I take what I want and leave the rest. Besides, there are enough experienced divers with Instructor ratings monitoring this site that if someone gives an answer that is incorrect, they are all over the answer. It starts quite the thread I have seen it here... my opinion of this place is that it is a wealth of information. Are you telling me that you have not learned on this site? If I couldn’t learn here I wouldn’t waiste my time at all? The giving, sharing and genuine concern for safety on this site is demonstrated throughout the words written on its virtual pages.

That you think so highly of this is place is very cute, but what we're trying to tell you is that nothing comes second to a person that has seen you fly and knows your abilities.

There are alot of skygods here, but I think the "ask your instructor first" mentality is a common thing in here.

Take it as you want, but if something happens, when asked why it happened dont say "I read it at dropzone.com"

And about the people jumping on others when giving bad advice... don't count on it to happen all the time.


Edit: I don't want to bash you for wanting to learn so much, but becareful. When one is so hungry for information things can sneak inside one's mind before you realize they should've never done that.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "It was suggested to me that I read Poynter’s "
.............................

Yep agree..nice idea . there are quite a few semi-historical info books available, They are all pretty good basic knowledge resources. New stuff is often the same old thing just rehashed.

Our pioneering skydivers learnt the hard way and many lessons were often accompanied by their friends deaths or injuries.

Some things have changed a bit eg ZP HP canopies can have different characteristics to the older f111 7 cells. Some handle turbulence better at full drive than with half brakes.

Most of the basic info has not changed at all just been refined a bit.

New folk sometimes think that the old fogies didn't know what they were doing. Nothing could be further from the truth. The pioneers were often struggling with difficult gear that made everything much more extreme than present day relatively refined equipment.

It's a very good idea to show these pioneers the respect they deserve otherwise we all risk repeating the lessons they learnt the hard way.

PS shutting down a f111 7cell by extreme stalling it was a fun way to lose altitude quickly if the situation called for it. Don't try it on a modern ZP elliptical though or it is most likely you will give yourself a malfunction.

have fun learning AND sharing what you learn

[srsand1960 0]

I reserve the right to learn the way that I am learning and from who I want to learn it from. Reading what I can from USPA and other sources, watching videos that are out and asking questions and analyzing the answer is how I'm doing it for I do not have an instructor!!! Point out to me in this chain where skygawdism is being demonstrated (other than from the one calling my belief and/or learning cute)... get off my cloud!

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[srsand1960 0]

I asked Bigun in a personal message and his reply was close to what you are stating surrounding the f111. Thanks

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[OSOK 0]

I never refered to you as a skygod, if that's what you understood. Read my post again. If you still don't get it, then I don't see how you plan on taking advice from people here.

[srsand1960 0]

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I never refered to you as a skygod, if that's what you understood. Read my post again. If you still don't get it, then I don't see how you plan on taking advice from people here.

I do understand what you were stating. I understand that you had safety and the best way to get acclimated with the sport in mind. Perhaps I was brash in jumping on the offence. The direction that I am taking regarding my education is the only logical one to take, given the circumstances surrounding my situation. Rather then contributing to solution or offering resolution, you provide opinion that is painted with a condescending undertone. Very much like the last statement on your message here. Fact is I know that there are people on here that do monitor the answers provided and I do regard these instructors as experts on the subject matter. I believe, no, I know.. that Ken (Samurai) and the others I mentioned in the thread above, review my questions. If there is an answer that is off base they will step in and provide the correct answer. In fact the answers that were provided first were ample and yet RiggerRob still expounded.
Happy tracking

It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours!

[TrickyDicky 0]

Theres only so much you can learn from reading on here. Most of the stuff you want to know you can only really learn and understand from actually doing it. Anyone could tell you how to do turns/backfly/sit/headdown on here, but its pretty worthless information compared to flying and being coached at the time.

Also, Im not an instructor or tunnel rat and neither do I work at a tunnel, but Id be very surprised if they would teach you to backfly in the tunnel until you are fully controlled on your front.

and in reply to: " I reserve the right to learn the way that I am learning and from who I want to learn it from."

That could be a very dangerous attitude. Always do what you asked/told to from a qualified instructor. If you go around selectivly ignoring people, especially instructors, you could end up missing very important advice. Dont be another statistic.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[kelpdiver 2]

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As far as learning stuff on this site goes scubadude, I have 13 jumps... I can learn anywhere.

Sure, you can. But might not be the safest course of action. Esp given some of these postings you've written here. Scary stuff.

Part of it comes to whether or not you believe in too much information or not. Some situations have multiple answers, or answers that depend on your locality. Your instructors simplify these matters by giving you a single answer during the student process. If you have a mal 20 seconds above the ground, you don't have to run through a decision matrix based on what he said, what 15 people here wrote, and what you read in a couple books. Information overload is a valid concern.