jlmiracle 7 #26 January 14, 2006 QuoteI've never heard of anyone using it, its scope is very limited (only works at USPA GM DZ's, won't pay out to other USPA members, or aircraft involved in jump ops), the amount of coverage isn't really that much. Besides, more often then not it is redundant, since a lot of airplanes (especially Gulfstreams) are insured for non-movement damage. Not true at all. It covers incidents at Non GM DZ's. I've seen it used a few times. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #27 January 14, 2006 QuoteWell everyone has a right to a goverment airport. Why is mike being kicked off. They won't tell him why. I thought it was a landlord/tenant dispute was why they are trying to kick him off. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #28 January 16, 2006 I kinda have a beef with USPA right now. They mailed me my renewal in plenty of time. I filled it out and wrote a check write away. But I couldn't send it in right away because I needed a signature for my instructional rating. I don't jump much in the winter, so I didn't go the DZ every weekend and try to get sign-off. I figured I was going to be out in Eloy with skr and mustard for the Holiday Boogie anyway, so I took it out there, had mustard sign it and I mailed it right then, from Eloy on Dec 29th. On Saturday, Jan 7th, I was back at my home DZ and ready to jump. But they wouldn't let me jump because the UPSA membership expired at the end of the year, and USPA didn't have the renewal in yet. I was OK with that because I mailed it in only a few days before the expiration, and this was only about 10 days later. So I had to fill out another USPA form, this time with a credit card for $69, and let the DZ fax it to them. That was OK with me, because the DZ is just protecting themselves. mustard was standing right there to sign the form again, which was pretty darn convenient The problem I have with USPA is that when I got home, I found out that my original $69 check that I sent in on the 29th cleared my bank on Thursday the 5th. Which means it was probably cashed on the Tuesday, the 3rd. But on Saturday, the 7th, the renewal still wasn't complete. So how come they can cash the check right away and wait a week to process the paperwork? I own a business, and I don't charge my customers until the work is complete. I don't know this for a fact, but my guess is that they have people at USPA that do nothing but process orders. To me it seems like the right thing to enter the paperwork first and cash the check when you're done. Now I just hope they don't also charge my credit card the additional $69 Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #29 January 16, 2006 QuoteI kinda have a beef with USPA right now. They mailed me my renewal in plenty of time. I filled it out and wrote a check write away. But I couldn't send it in right away because I needed a signature for my instructional rating. I don't jump much in the winter, so I didn't go the DZ every weekend and try to get sign-off. I figured I was going to be out in Eloy with skr and mustard for the Holiday Boogie anyway, so I took it out there, had mustard sign it and I mailed it right then, from Eloy on Dec 29th. On Saturday, Jan 7th, I was back at my home DZ and ready to jump. But they wouldn't let me jump because the UPSA membership expired at the end of the year, and USPA didn't have the renewal in yet. My reply is for the benefit of anyone in the same position as you were. Two solutions: 1. Forward your renewal and payment to someone who can sign off your instructional rating currency requirements, and have them sign, and forwrd to USPA HQ. (I do this for about 10-15 people a year. If they send it with a stamped and addressed to USPA HQ envelope it is a piece of cake.) 2. Send your renewal to USPA HQ on time with the membership payment only, and without the instructional rating requirements signed off. You will then be a current member. Get another renewal form and have the instructional rating renewal requirements signed whenever you can, and send it and the instructional rating renewal fee to USPA HQ with an explanation. You will then be a current instructor. #2 means more work for USPA HQ because they might wind up issuing 2 membership cards, but use it if you need to. Neither of these two options are difficult enough to be irritated with USPA as an organization are they? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #30 January 16, 2006 Does any one have the current update on " Gold Coast"? Was it an access issue or something different?smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YISkyDive 0 #31 January 17, 2006 I dont know about USPA as an orgonazation, it really bothers me, in a sense that it even exsits. Skydiving is a messed up sport in which we need extensive governing.. but some times USPA just puts its self out of the line of fire and lets the jumper take the bullet. Plus, at least one director persoanlly offended me in a discussion and I understand that people have diffrences- but posting internet access information attmepting to prove certain things totally shoots what they preach. Even if their point was proved(which is wasnt)- its down right sad too see them stoop to that level publically. The insurance bothers me- at 50 dollars a year -I guess- its a deal. The obvious cutaway, lost helmet, or other weird situation tht could cause damage, it could come in hady. But i mean -more than likely- i will damage skydivers property. Plus USPA bothers me on their training platforms. I think they are two weak at the price. Stuff costs money, i get that, but our students dont get everything need even with the new training platform and it costs them way too much money. I just don't believe in it whole heartedly- and more than likely i am wrong, on many points, but still. It bothers me that i personally could 'write' a training manual to at least help maybe 5 open canopy accidents a year- but USPA hasnt touched the subject. Since I have 332 jumps though- what does it matter if I say I could write a basic canopy training manual/ patform program. USPA really down right pisses me off about it. Plus the wingloading recommendations bother me and its showing uspa might be taking the 'easy way' out of a complicated problem. I see USPA doing nothing for me. I think the BSRs where great- but thats where I see me liking them stop. I hate our training programs, I hate the insurance (but understand why things are the way they are) and I totally totally fault USPA for not forcing canopy training from jump one. Just theres some- but not enough. not enough by any strech of imagination. I pay 50 dollars because im forced too. I pay 50 dollars so I get to jump at USPA DZs- I pay 50 dollars so I get to expeirence free fall- I pay 50 dollars soI get to enjoy skydiving. That botheres me that an orgonazation can hindge my fun, my enjoyment, my life on a stupid 50 dollar bill that they have no direct invovlment with. But I openly admit I dont understand every part of what USPA does- but from what I have seen in almost 2 full years directly jumping and an additional 4 years just 'watching' the sport from the ground.. it has done absolutely nothing. That bothers me. Some people say go to a meeting. Its not that easy. Plus- writing a letter is a joke when obviously multiple memebers have found that simply proccessing your membership to be a challange. I dont have a 'screw USPA' mentallity but it needs a HECK of a lot of reformation to be a 'Usefull' org. Just my opinion. Im not trying to start a flame fest. Just my honest opinion. Dave. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #32 January 17, 2006 QuoteSome people say go to a meeting. Its not that easy. Really? Why? Not a US jumper, so I'm curious as to what obstacles prevent you taking a more active role in reforming a system that doesn't appear to meet your needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DontPanic 0 #33 January 17, 2006 QuoteDoes any one have the current update on " Gold Coast"? Was it an access issue or something different? Despite being weathered out Saterday by high winds, we had a really good day of jumping on Sunday. We found a sympathetic gentleman (I think his name is Ronnie Smith) just outside of Lucedale (about 20-30 miles north of Moss Point) to loan us the use of his airstrip (South Mississippi Light Aircraft or SMLA). He has a grass runway on his property, and has a business supporting small kit-built aircraft and ultralights. We had the busiest day of jumping since Mike upgraded the Otter's engines last fall. I was really surprised by the turn-out. We even had a good number of Tandems track us down to our temporary location, which ain't bad for the middle of January. I had a chance to talk with Mike about the current status. Mike hasn't given up on Moss Point yet, and even mentioned that we may be able to return to there soon (but you'll just have to stay tuned to find out if that pans out). Mike continues to fight for the Moss Point facility. This issue is apparently a common issue to skydiving. The operators of the airport have come to the conclusion that skydiving operations interfer with the growth of the airport, even though only a handful of airplanes land and take off on weekends. As I understand it, the use of the SMLA airport was something Mike and Ronnie put together fairly quickly in order to continue operations while we fight for access to the facilities at Moss Point. It's not that the SMLA airport wouldn't be a nice place for a DZ, I just don't think they've talked about anything long term yet. So that's the current news for Gold Coast. Stay tuned, because I'm sure there'll be more fun to come. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites YISkyDive 0 #34 January 17, 2006 College. Work. Responisbilities. Scheduals. Appointments. and many other events that fall under that umprell of life. Plus Arizona is completly unaccesiable by my current standard of living. It isnt a small country. 4 days drive or thousands of dollars in travel expenses is not worth being shut down by an orginazation that for one reason or another will not listen to one person. Im not saying there arnt good reasons. But that fact stands. That doesnt mean I wont take things into my own hands- currently I am considering getting a research program at school opened to prove some of my theories. It would involve lots of times but could cover many costs to USPA- but I can't get into till next semster- meaning I must delay longer than I like. It aint a perfect world. They wouldnt want me at a meeting anyway.. Im not 'conservative' enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites azureriders 0 #35 January 17, 2006 A wonderful day of jumping it was. Lea Anne told me later that they put up 24 tandems and I can count 10 or more AFF jumps, one of which was my wife, not to mention that every load was slammed. It was good to see Mike with a smile on his face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #36 January 17, 2006 Yes, but you are, as a member, represented by regional directors. Try working through your RD as an alternative to attending the meetings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripcord4 0 #37 January 17, 2006 The USPA is a lot like the NRA. Neither organization is perfect, but both are the only voices working for us in Washington, DC. Both do way more good than harm for their members. The insurance offered (good at ALL dz's by the way) alone is worth the price. That $15,000 estimate on the repair cost to the Gulfstream is ridiculously low. Ding up some hydraulic lines, maybe an actuator or worse, puncture a fuel tank and you will quickly be into 6 figures. Besides, it gives us a convenient subject to vent about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #38 January 18, 2006 QuoteMy reply is for the benefit of anyone in the same position as you were. Oh, it gets better, Gary My bank shows the check cleared on January 5th. Today, my back shows that I have, not one, but TWO charges to my credit card. One for $69 and one for $49. I called USPA to find out what happened. Apparently, they ignored the request on both sides of the application, and processed the credit card again for $69. Then, according to them, my dropzone only faxed one side of the application form. The instructional rating side was not faxed. So, USPA decided to charge my credit card AGAIN for $49, just for the membership renewal, not for the instructional rating renewal. Now, according to the person I just spoke with, I should get a refund for all these charges in about a month. So, I'm out $187 for what should have been a $69 charge. And hopefully, I'll get the remainder back in a month. 1. USPA should process paperwork before they cash checks. 2. USPA should be able to determine if a payment has already been sent, and not charge for it a second time. 3. USPA should never, ever, charge a third time for something that should have been caught the first and second time. How many parachutes do you wear? Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,462 #39 January 18, 2006 >The USPA is a lot like the NRA. Neither organization is perfect, but > both are the only voices working for us in Washington, DC. Both do > way more good than harm for their members. Although to be fair, AOPA has done far more for us lately than USPA. Not to diss USPA, but if you want to support an organization that will keep our planes in the air, AOPA might be a good one to join as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #40 January 18, 2006 QuoteAOPA might be a good one to join as well. Good advice, Bill. And I like the fact that it's cheaper than USPA - only $39. Maybe I'll do that when I get my refund from USPA.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 20 #41 January 18, 2006 OK, that's enough to get irritated at USPA over! Oh, well, sometimes administrative issues go from bad to worse. Sorry it happened to you. Definitely send the Membership Services department (and BOD committee) a nasty-gram (well, not too nasty). They need to know when things get that screwed up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #42 January 18, 2006 QuoteThere's all kinds of damages, major and minor, that our activities can cause. I wonder how easy (and affordable) it would be to get insurance on my own? The liability clause on your homeowner's policy is almost assuredly bigger and better. USPA's insurance is for $50,000 and, while I haven't gotten a definitive answer on the deductible amount, I've heard it's pretty significant. Your homeowner's liability clause is likely for *at least* $100,000, probably alot more, and I've never had a deductible over $500. Same with renters insurance. Note - Some insurance policies might require that the liability be incurred on the insured property, but I don't think that's all that common. Ask your agent. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #43 January 18, 2006 Nice reminder, Dave... at least for those of us who are homeowners. I'll have to check out my paperwork when I'm at home. But, I'm willing to bet that there are more renters *without* renters' insurance than with. Maybe I can dig up my old renters' policies to see if it was included, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #44 January 18, 2006 QuoteNice reminder, Dave... at least for those of us who are homeowners. I'll have to check out my paperwork when I'm at home. But, I'm willing to bet that there are more renters *without* renters' insurance than with. Maybe I can dig up my old renters' policies to see if it was included, though. I'm pretty sure all renter policies include liability coverage, plus there's an additional benefit. A friend of mine once had a cutaway over a forest. She lost her main with all attached components, reserve PC/freebag, and cutaway and reserve handles. She saw where she was, several people spent some significant time looking there, and nobody found it. I suggested she turn it in on her renter policy, so she called her agent. He said that if she knew where she was, and it wasn't there when she got there, it would be covered by her theft policy if she filed a police report. She called the cops, made the generic report, and received a check from her insurance for full replacement value (retail, no depreciation for being used), minus a $250 deductible. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #45 January 18, 2006 So let's turn this argument on its head ... I'm going to make an assumption that a DZO in the U.S. would require jumpers at its DZ to carry third-party liability insurance (if this assumption is false... well, ignore the rest of my post here). Does one of the ways USPA' adds value then come in making "USPA Membership" a simple, straightforward way to know that a jumper has that insurance? The alternative, then, is that every time I show up at a DZ, I bring 1) a copy of my homeowner's/renter's policy and a phone number of my agent so you can verify that it's current or 2) a copy of my third-party liability policy that I obtained independently or 3) buy temporary third-party liability insurance from the DZ (not even sure if that's possible). Sounds like a logistical hassle to me..."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #46 January 18, 2006 Your assumption is false. Too bad we couldn't make a jump at Lodi that day last year. In my experience, DZOs either require USPA membership or they don't. You are correct that the 3rd party liability insurance adds value to USPA membership, but I have yet to jump at a non-GM dz where they expected any proof of liability coverage. If *you* get sued, that's not their problem, and if *they* get sued, your insurance won't cover them. That said, you having coverage does make you an attractive target, and you not having coverage makes them a more attractive target, but I haven't personally seen this play much of a factor in the real world. In most cases, it's either sue nobody, or sue everybody. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #47 January 18, 2006 I've jumped at Lodi since. I know how "extensive" the waiver process is there. I'd be curious if the liability insurance is considered of any value to DZOs at USPA group member DZs, or if they wouldn't care if that went away. I suspect where it makes a difference is not in the "sue everyone" situation, but in the "Hey, I've got a $1000 repair that I'd like someone to pay" and it gets settled quietly and outside of the legal system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #48 January 19, 2006 Just thought that I'd pipe in on this thread and say that I dont think the USPA is such a bad thing. Paying some little fee like we do every year is not that big of a deal, especially when you look at the costs of the rest of our sport. I agree that the magazine could use some improvements, however I do still enjoy seeing it in the mail every month. The insurance, well, it's just a good idea. Many of us may have our own insurance policies that cover what we may do, but I think alot more of us dont. If you dont like the way things are run, we do have the ability to vote out the current board. (kinda like the US Gov't, people bitch, but they rarely vote, I doubt its much different here) ... I think it's great that we have a voice which deals with the Gov't ... Although they probably could help us with a few more issues than they do, I'm sure they still do us a fair bit of good. Ohh yea, it is bullshit that they let the skyride folks back in. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NelKel 0 #49 January 19, 2006 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My reply is for the benefit of anyone in the same position as you were. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, it gets better, Gary My bank shows the check cleared on January 5th. Today, my back shows that I have, not one, but TWO charges to my credit card. One for $69 and one for $49. I called USPA to find out what happened. Apparently, they ignored the request on both sides of the application, and processed the credit card again for $69. Then, according to them, my dropzone only faxed one side of the application form. The instructional rating side was not faxed. So, USPA decided to charge my credit card AGAIN for $49, just for the membership renewal, not for the instructional rating renewal. Now, according to the person I just spoke with, I should get a refund for all these charges in about a month. So, I'm out $187 for what should have been a $69 charge. And hopefully, I'll get the remainder back in a month. 1. USPA should process paperwork before they cash checks. 2. USPA should be able to determine if a payment has already been sent, and not charge for it a second time. 3. USPA should never, ever, charge a third time for something that should have been caught the first and second time <<<< --------------------------------------------- You know when your toilet backs up, and your not really good friend with a plumber you have no choice but to go to the phone book. You open the yellow pages under plumbing contractors, and you will find the big adds. Whole page pictures, or half page adds. You call, some woman answers the phone and tries to handle your question, but ultimately says I'll have Mr. so in so call you right back. Basically, this plumber has one helper who works side by side with him. He hired an answer service to answer his calls and page him. His add gives the illusion he is BIGGER than he really is. WHY? cause it makes people feel like they are getting what they pay for, or that they are hiring a repuable, licensed contractor. It makes the customer believe there is some elaborate operation, with dozens of trucks and qualified employess. When in reality it is some poor guy who has to put on heirs to just to compete for your business, and put his hand in your shit. Why? Cause that is what you expect when you call for a Plumber. You sent your info in, incomplete, more than once. Some poor temp at the USPA, probably charged you thrice by mistake. DO you understand?Of course the USPA is going to clear your check first, any smart business would. NSF charges do no good once they have mailed your new card. Ofcourse they will charge your card first, they have no way other than that to tell if it is a good card. Have you ever ordered gear? Did you see the disclamer that states there is a 2 week waiting period for your check to clear? Dude you went to a different DZ with out even a copy of your first renewal, knowing the DZ would not let you jump. YOU filled out a new renewal form complete with putting your CC number on the form and watched the maninfest girl FAX it in. Now you gonna complane that they charged more that once. Come on?_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites patworks 5 #50 January 20, 2006 Dude, Because you are a skydiver, renew. Quitting the air but love the sport? Renew. Support our team? Renew Low I.Q. and 'me first!' ? Renew Dying tomorrow of disease? Cancel Infant bitch-master? Renew (join us). love, 44 year member, previous outlaw skydiver, 4-term BODPat Works nee Madden Travis Works, Jr .B1575, C1798, D1813, Star Crest Solo#1, USPA#189, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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YISkyDive 0 #34 January 17, 2006 College. Work. Responisbilities. Scheduals. Appointments. and many other events that fall under that umprell of life. Plus Arizona is completly unaccesiable by my current standard of living. It isnt a small country. 4 days drive or thousands of dollars in travel expenses is not worth being shut down by an orginazation that for one reason or another will not listen to one person. Im not saying there arnt good reasons. But that fact stands. That doesnt mean I wont take things into my own hands- currently I am considering getting a research program at school opened to prove some of my theories. It would involve lots of times but could cover many costs to USPA- but I can't get into till next semster- meaning I must delay longer than I like. It aint a perfect world. They wouldnt want me at a meeting anyway.. Im not 'conservative' enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #35 January 17, 2006 A wonderful day of jumping it was. Lea Anne told me later that they put up 24 tandems and I can count 10 or more AFF jumps, one of which was my wife, not to mention that every load was slammed. It was good to see Mike with a smile on his face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #36 January 17, 2006 Yes, but you are, as a member, represented by regional directors. Try working through your RD as an alternative to attending the meetings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ripcord4 0 #37 January 17, 2006 The USPA is a lot like the NRA. Neither organization is perfect, but both are the only voices working for us in Washington, DC. Both do way more good than harm for their members. The insurance offered (good at ALL dz's by the way) alone is worth the price. That $15,000 estimate on the repair cost to the Gulfstream is ridiculously low. Ding up some hydraulic lines, maybe an actuator or worse, puncture a fuel tank and you will quickly be into 6 figures. Besides, it gives us a convenient subject to vent about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #38 January 18, 2006 QuoteMy reply is for the benefit of anyone in the same position as you were. Oh, it gets better, Gary My bank shows the check cleared on January 5th. Today, my back shows that I have, not one, but TWO charges to my credit card. One for $69 and one for $49. I called USPA to find out what happened. Apparently, they ignored the request on both sides of the application, and processed the credit card again for $69. Then, according to them, my dropzone only faxed one side of the application form. The instructional rating side was not faxed. So, USPA decided to charge my credit card AGAIN for $49, just for the membership renewal, not for the instructional rating renewal. Now, according to the person I just spoke with, I should get a refund for all these charges in about a month. So, I'm out $187 for what should have been a $69 charge. And hopefully, I'll get the remainder back in a month. 1. USPA should process paperwork before they cash checks. 2. USPA should be able to determine if a payment has already been sent, and not charge for it a second time. 3. USPA should never, ever, charge a third time for something that should have been caught the first and second time. How many parachutes do you wear? Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,462 #39 January 18, 2006 >The USPA is a lot like the NRA. Neither organization is perfect, but > both are the only voices working for us in Washington, DC. Both do > way more good than harm for their members. Although to be fair, AOPA has done far more for us lately than USPA. Not to diss USPA, but if you want to support an organization that will keep our planes in the air, AOPA might be a good one to join as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #40 January 18, 2006 QuoteAOPA might be a good one to join as well. Good advice, Bill. And I like the fact that it's cheaper than USPA - only $39. Maybe I'll do that when I get my refund from USPA.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #41 January 18, 2006 OK, that's enough to get irritated at USPA over! Oh, well, sometimes administrative issues go from bad to worse. Sorry it happened to you. Definitely send the Membership Services department (and BOD committee) a nasty-gram (well, not too nasty). They need to know when things get that screwed up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #42 January 18, 2006 QuoteThere's all kinds of damages, major and minor, that our activities can cause. I wonder how easy (and affordable) it would be to get insurance on my own? The liability clause on your homeowner's policy is almost assuredly bigger and better. USPA's insurance is for $50,000 and, while I haven't gotten a definitive answer on the deductible amount, I've heard it's pretty significant. Your homeowner's liability clause is likely for *at least* $100,000, probably alot more, and I've never had a deductible over $500. Same with renters insurance. Note - Some insurance policies might require that the liability be incurred on the insured property, but I don't think that's all that common. Ask your agent. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #43 January 18, 2006 Nice reminder, Dave... at least for those of us who are homeowners. I'll have to check out my paperwork when I'm at home. But, I'm willing to bet that there are more renters *without* renters' insurance than with. Maybe I can dig up my old renters' policies to see if it was included, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #44 January 18, 2006 QuoteNice reminder, Dave... at least for those of us who are homeowners. I'll have to check out my paperwork when I'm at home. But, I'm willing to bet that there are more renters *without* renters' insurance than with. Maybe I can dig up my old renters' policies to see if it was included, though. I'm pretty sure all renter policies include liability coverage, plus there's an additional benefit. A friend of mine once had a cutaway over a forest. She lost her main with all attached components, reserve PC/freebag, and cutaway and reserve handles. She saw where she was, several people spent some significant time looking there, and nobody found it. I suggested she turn it in on her renter policy, so she called her agent. He said that if she knew where she was, and it wasn't there when she got there, it would be covered by her theft policy if she filed a police report. She called the cops, made the generic report, and received a check from her insurance for full replacement value (retail, no depreciation for being used), minus a $250 deductible. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #45 January 18, 2006 So let's turn this argument on its head ... I'm going to make an assumption that a DZO in the U.S. would require jumpers at its DZ to carry third-party liability insurance (if this assumption is false... well, ignore the rest of my post here). Does one of the ways USPA' adds value then come in making "USPA Membership" a simple, straightforward way to know that a jumper has that insurance? The alternative, then, is that every time I show up at a DZ, I bring 1) a copy of my homeowner's/renter's policy and a phone number of my agent so you can verify that it's current or 2) a copy of my third-party liability policy that I obtained independently or 3) buy temporary third-party liability insurance from the DZ (not even sure if that's possible). Sounds like a logistical hassle to me..."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #46 January 18, 2006 Your assumption is false. Too bad we couldn't make a jump at Lodi that day last year. In my experience, DZOs either require USPA membership or they don't. You are correct that the 3rd party liability insurance adds value to USPA membership, but I have yet to jump at a non-GM dz where they expected any proof of liability coverage. If *you* get sued, that's not their problem, and if *they* get sued, your insurance won't cover them. That said, you having coverage does make you an attractive target, and you not having coverage makes them a more attractive target, but I haven't personally seen this play much of a factor in the real world. In most cases, it's either sue nobody, or sue everybody. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #47 January 18, 2006 I've jumped at Lodi since. I know how "extensive" the waiver process is there. I'd be curious if the liability insurance is considered of any value to DZOs at USPA group member DZs, or if they wouldn't care if that went away. I suspect where it makes a difference is not in the "sue everyone" situation, but in the "Hey, I've got a $1000 repair that I'd like someone to pay" and it gets settled quietly and outside of the legal system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #48 January 19, 2006 Just thought that I'd pipe in on this thread and say that I dont think the USPA is such a bad thing. Paying some little fee like we do every year is not that big of a deal, especially when you look at the costs of the rest of our sport. I agree that the magazine could use some improvements, however I do still enjoy seeing it in the mail every month. The insurance, well, it's just a good idea. Many of us may have our own insurance policies that cover what we may do, but I think alot more of us dont. If you dont like the way things are run, we do have the ability to vote out the current board. (kinda like the US Gov't, people bitch, but they rarely vote, I doubt its much different here) ... I think it's great that we have a voice which deals with the Gov't ... Although they probably could help us with a few more issues than they do, I'm sure they still do us a fair bit of good. Ohh yea, it is bullshit that they let the skyride folks back in. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #49 January 19, 2006 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My reply is for the benefit of anyone in the same position as you were. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, it gets better, Gary My bank shows the check cleared on January 5th. Today, my back shows that I have, not one, but TWO charges to my credit card. One for $69 and one for $49. I called USPA to find out what happened. Apparently, they ignored the request on both sides of the application, and processed the credit card again for $69. Then, according to them, my dropzone only faxed one side of the application form. The instructional rating side was not faxed. So, USPA decided to charge my credit card AGAIN for $49, just for the membership renewal, not for the instructional rating renewal. Now, according to the person I just spoke with, I should get a refund for all these charges in about a month. So, I'm out $187 for what should have been a $69 charge. And hopefully, I'll get the remainder back in a month. 1. USPA should process paperwork before they cash checks. 2. USPA should be able to determine if a payment has already been sent, and not charge for it a second time. 3. USPA should never, ever, charge a third time for something that should have been caught the first and second time <<<< --------------------------------------------- You know when your toilet backs up, and your not really good friend with a plumber you have no choice but to go to the phone book. You open the yellow pages under plumbing contractors, and you will find the big adds. Whole page pictures, or half page adds. You call, some woman answers the phone and tries to handle your question, but ultimately says I'll have Mr. so in so call you right back. Basically, this plumber has one helper who works side by side with him. He hired an answer service to answer his calls and page him. His add gives the illusion he is BIGGER than he really is. WHY? cause it makes people feel like they are getting what they pay for, or that they are hiring a repuable, licensed contractor. It makes the customer believe there is some elaborate operation, with dozens of trucks and qualified employess. When in reality it is some poor guy who has to put on heirs to just to compete for your business, and put his hand in your shit. Why? Cause that is what you expect when you call for a Plumber. You sent your info in, incomplete, more than once. Some poor temp at the USPA, probably charged you thrice by mistake. DO you understand?Of course the USPA is going to clear your check first, any smart business would. NSF charges do no good once they have mailed your new card. Ofcourse they will charge your card first, they have no way other than that to tell if it is a good card. Have you ever ordered gear? Did you see the disclamer that states there is a 2 week waiting period for your check to clear? Dude you went to a different DZ with out even a copy of your first renewal, knowing the DZ would not let you jump. YOU filled out a new renewal form complete with putting your CC number on the form and watched the maninfest girl FAX it in. Now you gonna complane that they charged more that once. Come on?_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patworks 5 #50 January 20, 2006 Dude, Because you are a skydiver, renew. Quitting the air but love the sport? Renew. Support our team? Renew Low I.Q. and 'me first!' ? Renew Dying tomorrow of disease? Cancel Infant bitch-master? Renew (join us). love, 44 year member, previous outlaw skydiver, 4-term BODPat Works nee Madden Travis Works, Jr .B1575, C1798, D1813, Star Crest Solo#1, USPA#189, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
