Meux 0 #26 May 3, 2006 Is part of the problem the media? What if this guy went into his bathtub and slit his wrists with a razor blade? Would there be any discussion about how dangerous razors are? If one baby shits, you don't change all the diapers. What I'm saying to the BPA is that there is no limit to the number of regulations and oversight that a person bent on suicide won't overcome. My impression of skydiving in England (everywhere for that matter) is that it is very safe and while accidents do happen, they are individual tragedies that more rules won't stop. I've lost friends to suicide and it is so difficult for me to imagine walking down that path. I would suggest that perhaps the last two suicides were copy cat suicides caused in part by media hype. Stop the media hype, the suicides will still happen, just in another place, not at the dz. God Bless, MH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #27 May 3, 2006 QuoteOh? Which would you prefer some sad suicide note leaving everyone thinking they could have done something to stop it and spend the rest of their lives questioning everything they did/didn't do or grieve at what they only know to be a tragic accident. I would rather think it was an accident. However, I think that when most get to that point they are no longer concerned with how others feel. They are hurt and think that death is the only way out. QuoteRon I respect your opinions. You one of the few people I pay attention to when they post about jumping Thanks QuoteI see where your coming from and your right going out period is selfish but if one could easy the pain of ones loved ones after they have made up there minds, it is by far a better choice from my perspective. And that would be the last selfhless act amongst a sea of selfishness........ I agree it is selfish, but I don't hold them in any bad light due to it. I don't even want to imagine how bad they must think their life is to make that final step. I just don't think most are going to think about others when they are so desperate."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DottieBear 0 #28 May 4, 2006 I think screening would be really hard, because, lets face it, a lot of us who chose to sky dive are not....well, we could easily spend all the money we spend sky diving on counseling, I am sure(though with less results!) To sky dive takes a certain acceptance of death, and often a morbid sense of humor about it(in my own case and many of the sky divers I have meet in my short time reflect this). To participate in a sport where the number one goal is to survive...well, it just takes a special kind of person to love and feel so passionate about a sport like that. How could even a highly trained psychiatrist tell the difference between someone who was ready to end it all, and the rest of us??~Dottie “Everything looks perfect from far away.” Postal Service, Such Great Heights Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,279 #29 May 4, 2006 Quote A skydiver that wanted to die this way would make it look like a high speed mistake not a suicide. Sorry dude, but anyone who has followed UK skydiving for the last few years will tell you that statement is just not true. Yes it sucks, but we just have to deal with it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skykittykat 0 #30 May 4, 2006 QuoteScreening The BPA does the most "screening" of any parachute association that I know of. I know a guy who jumped in the UK that was on anti-depressants, but if he divulged the fact, then he would not have been allowed to jump. He lied on his registration for BPA membership only because he knew that any hint of mental illness would prevent him from skydiving within the UK. Depression is still a huge taboo in the UK and it is not recognised like it is over here in the States. After recent contact with him, he is jumping very happily overseas and having the time of his life. Just because you are depressed does not mean you are going to commit suicide. Regarding the suicides in the UK and the media, skydiving has always generated negative media coverage due to the "man in the street" point of view of throwing yourself out of a plane! The Steven Hilder incident unfortunately brought skydiving into a bad light, but please note that he was part of the military and the military did not want any more negative press over murder accusations at that time - Deepcut, et al. The military have a bad rep for covering things up, especially as they can get away with it along the lines of "he said"..." they said"..."he said in front of witnesses"...., etc Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #31 May 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteScreening Just because you are depressed does not mean you are going to commit suicide. ........................ I agree totally. Skydiving has actually helped a ton of people deal with their problems with depression....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #32 May 4, 2006 QuoteJust because you are depressed does not mean you are going to commit suicide. Yes, but it does not mean you will not either. I think a clinically depressed person should be cleared to skydive by a mental heath professional. Skydiving Instructors, or DZO's that I know are not qualified to make that call. That being said I don't think that anti-depression meds should automaticly ground anyone either. But I think that is a case for a mental heath professional as well."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #33 May 4, 2006 Wouldn't preventing someone from jumping as they have previous history of mental health issue be breach of human rights? Maybe something like skydiving would be good for them, a fun outlet, something to give their attention and enjoy. I am thinking more about depression than blatant psychos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #34 May 4, 2006 I am not for preventing someone from skydiving cause they had a mental condition. However it would not be a breach of human rights, if it was then DZO's could not stop people jumping cause of bone injuries, heart conditions etc as that would also be a breach of human rights. I think it is to the discretion of the DZo as well as what their insurance covers them for. Why do people need medicals for many aspects in life? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #35 May 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteJust because you are depressed does not mean you are going to commit suicide. Yes, but it does not mean you will not either. I think a clinically depressed person should be cleared to skydive by a mental heath professional. Skydiving Instructors, or DZO's that I know are not qualified to make that call. That being said I don't think that anti-depression meds should automaticly ground anyone either. But I think that is a case for a mental heath professional as well. ............................................................... That's a good point. A mental health professional should make that call. This could get real complicated though. Many many people have been evaluated for depression and their confidential records are locked up in a file cabinet somewhere. If you ask that therapist if so and so was a client, he'll say that he can't tell you that. These records might be found with a court order, but I doubt if anyone will bother to search a person's background that closely just to make a parachute jump. And then there are all those thousands and thousands of people out there, who are clinically depressed, but they have never seen anyone concerning their problem. Men, in particular, are seldom willing to go in and get the help they need. So I agree a mental health professional should make that call. I also hope things never get to the point where everyone has to have a mental health exam just to start jumping. I think most people could probably pass such an exam, even if they had a serious problem with depression, if they weren't honest with their therapist. Just some random thoughts....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpingjimmy 0 #36 May 4, 2006 i still think it would be just so perfect if you got your timing right and managed to half-volley kick a suicide bouncer over the club house Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #37 May 4, 2006 QuoteWouldn't preventing someone from jumping as they have previous history of mental health issue be breach of human rights? No. Grounding a person due to a heath issue is not against human rights. Is not allowing a blind person to drive a violation of their human rights? QuoteMaybe something like skydiving would be good for them, a fun outlet, something to give their attention and enjoy. I am thinking more about depression than blatant psychos. It could be, and many on here have posted that skydiving "saved them". However, they could jump if a medical professional said they were not a risk. So they could still jump if they could prove they were not a risk. Look many people say that mental illness is a disease, I agree. They say it can be treated, and to an extent I agree. However, we don't let people with known medical problems that could cause a problem do dangerous stuff. Why would this medical problem be any different than any other medical problem?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #38 May 4, 2006 Ron, are you saying that there should be something in place for the dzo to know if their passenger has a mental illness. One of my Heroes has a mental ilness, an ex all black/ italian rugby coach. If you are saying this, how could it ever be clarified as to which ilness would prevent you from jumping? I do not know where i would stand on this but it is interesting. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #39 May 4, 2006 QuoteWhy do people need medicals for many aspects in life? 1. Often people do not know what is good for them. They think they know enough when, in fact, they have no idea. 2. Some conditions frankly present real dangers. A suicidal person should not be allowed on a plane. Now, how do you know a person is suicidal? Answer is you normally don't. But they are depressed. However, some think it is a persons right to do as they please...To a point I agree. I think you are free to do as you please until you impact my life by your choices. Wanna smoke? Go right ahead, but I also have the right to not breathe your second hand smoke. Wanna kill yourself? I think that is your personal choice honestly. However, by doing it skydiving you risk others such as the DZO, the DZ, AND skydiving in general. The FAA does not allow people with some conditions or medications to fly a plane. (I know this first hand). Do I think it is stupid? Kinda. But there are some conditions that people have that I do not think they should be allowed to fly. The problem is, who I am to say which is which? We have Dr's to make those calls. BTW the FAA now allows me to fly again. Depression is a medical condition, that can cause big problems. I don't think it is harsh or cruel to make people with medical conditions prove they can safely participate in an event."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #40 May 4, 2006 I agree with you 100% on everything you said their Ron. The question i was asking was a rhetorical question to the person i was responding to. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #41 May 4, 2006 QuoteRon, are you saying that there should be something in place for the dzo to know if their passenger has a mental illness. No. But I would understand if something was in place. QuoteOne of my Heroes has a mental ilness, an ex all black/ italian rugby coach. If you are saying this, how could it ever be clarified as to which ilness would prevent you from jumping? I can't make that call. It would have to be a Dr. Depression I am sure has levels. A mild "blues" would not be a case for grounding, but a harsh case where the person is suicidal sure would be. Again, *I* can't make that call. QuoteI do not know where i would stand on this but it is interesting. Would you agree that severely depressed people should not be allowed to jump?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #42 May 4, 2006 I agree totally!!! I myself took a month off after a girlfriend leaving me after three years, my car getting stolen and crashed with no inssurance all within 12 hours. Not cause i thought i would kill myself but cause i was depressed and i dont think anybody is rational when they are depressed. or at least they dont have their mind where it needs to be. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #43 May 4, 2006 Remember John Anderson ? The guy who tracked all the way in at the dz? He was on XTC at Nationals, 3K jumps, 30 yrs in sport, world-record, etc.. Haagen-Daz watched him. No reach, full track. He was last out on his 7 or 8-way (first group). I was first out on the following 6-way. We sat next to each other on the plane and talked a little on the way up. He gave no outward sign to me. Normal enough. People can certainly appear normal. Since they are about to avoid all their pain, they can actually be a little calmer and happier. I know more than a few jumpers on meds. It isn't a problem. I know a few who should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #44 May 5, 2006 Quote I can't make that call. It would have to be a Dr. Depression I am sure has levels. A mild "blues" would not be a case for grounding, but a harsh case where the person is suicidal sure would be. Again, *I* can't make that call. I think you'd have trouble finding someone that could. I suspect they would treat depression as a binary - if they have any, they can't jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #45 May 5, 2006 Some times I think people put too much faith in mental health professionals. I'm just a school counselor, but I hope to be licensed soon as a LCPC. I work with psychologists on a regular basis, and have taken a lot of students to them for evaluation. The more I do this, the more I realize that there is quite a bit of guess work on their part as to predicting whether or not a person really is suicidal. Most of these professionals have a check list of questions along with observation of the client that they evaluate. Sure they can make a decision, but quite often it is the wrong one. A lot of truly suicidal people can put on a very convincing act, just to get released. A diagnosis from a metal health professional is quite often the wrong one. They will document their decision in a effort to avoid a law suit, but I often wonder how much guess work is also involved. For example one of the highest rates of suicide is found in bi-polar clients. This can be very hard to diagnose. I attended a seminar recently where a Psychiatrist stated that it often takes seven to eight years to get an accurate diagnosis of bi-polar. The problem is that many suicidal bipolar clients often kill themselves in the first two or three years of suffering from this mental health disease. There are many kids in school suffering from bi-polar illness yet they are being diagnosed as ADHD. I had one professor in college who stated that having a Doctorate in Psychology is a lot like being a witch doctor, because the human brain is so complicated and there is so little we actually know about it. The field of Psychiatry has only been around since the 1950's. It wasn't too long ago when someone with mental problems might have been bled, hanged as a witch, or in some cases their heads were shaved and the warm lungs of a lamb placed on their noggin to draw out the poison. Sure we've come a long way. We are learning new things at a very rapid rate. Brain scans for example are beginning to unravel a lot. But I still look at the diagnosis of many mental health professionals with skepticism. Even they have a difficult time coming up with the right diagnosis. Predicting the potential of suicide is not always easy, even by a Doctor. A professional's educated guess would probably be far more accurate than a DZ owner's though. If the element of doubt is large enough, they should be grounded. I wouldn't want to be jumping with a suicidal person. If they are thinking of taking their own life, they might not mind taking you with them. If I owned a DZ I'd have to be a cold hearted old bastard and say they coldn't jump. It isn't worth taking the risk. You might be saving their life, by grounding them. They might hate you for a while, but thank you later on....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #46 May 5, 2006 I just looked up Bipolar as i had not idea what it was.... The symptoms were as follows. Kind of sounds like a person who lives on a dropzone....... Increased energy, activity, and restlessness (where is the pilot!!) Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood (yeah dude) Extreme irritability ( Bloody tandems) Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another (load organiser) Distractibility, can't concentrate well (Manifesting) Little sleep needed (every night on the dz) Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers (LearningToJump on his crossfire) Poor judgment (LearningToJump on his crossfire) Spending sprees (walking into the gearshop) A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual (hangover) Increased sexual drive (enough said) Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications(Safety meetings) Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior (safety officer) Denial that anything is wrong (packers) I dont know but i think the majority of us would have most of these abilities in us. Sorry trying to make a little light humor on this thread.... You can continue now .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #47 May 5, 2006 QuoteRemember John Anderson ? Yep. Quote know more than a few jumpers on meds. It isn't a problem. I know a few who should be. My whole point has been if they are depressed they should have a medical doc clear them. If they are on meds and it is controled I have no problem with them jumping."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UntamedDOG 0 #48 May 5, 2006 QuoteSuicide is a selfish act Is suicide selfish? Of course it is! Just about every act we partake in our daily lives is inherently covetous and mercenary, why should suicide be any different? Does this make the act any less tragic? Why do common plebeians make such a point to use the same tired aphorisms, proclaiming the victim as “selfish” Perhaps we are the ones who are selfish for believing this, and they are the ones who are selfless by throwing away what you hold most sacred? UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pincheck 0 #49 May 5, 2006 This is where i hit the stumbling block Ron who makes that call at the dz the dzo or s&ta ??. What do we do start asking jumpers for medical records when they turn up at dz where they are unkn own. how do you differentiate between just having a bad day and being depressed. The other thing is we tend to go on trust more than anything else. these people do not walk about with signs saying "Im about to Kill myself" infact i would say they would tend to be more devious by nature. As happythoughts already said they can be very ordinary to look at and talk to. I honestly don't know the Answer here people its something that may not have a straight forward solution to. Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #50 May 5, 2006 QuoteI just looked up Bipolar as i had not idea what it was.... The symptoms were as follows. Kind of sounds like a person who lives on a dropzone....... You know, I think you may be onto something. I had no idea, until you started listing the symptoms, that most of my friends, and maybe even myself are showing all the signs of Bipolar. Oh shit! What do we do now!.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Ron 7 #37 May 4, 2006 QuoteWouldn't preventing someone from jumping as they have previous history of mental health issue be breach of human rights? No. Grounding a person due to a heath issue is not against human rights. Is not allowing a blind person to drive a violation of their human rights? QuoteMaybe something like skydiving would be good for them, a fun outlet, something to give their attention and enjoy. I am thinking more about depression than blatant psychos. It could be, and many on here have posted that skydiving "saved them". However, they could jump if a medical professional said they were not a risk. So they could still jump if they could prove they were not a risk. Look many people say that mental illness is a disease, I agree. They say it can be treated, and to an extent I agree. However, we don't let people with known medical problems that could cause a problem do dangerous stuff. Why would this medical problem be any different than any other medical problem?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #38 May 4, 2006 Ron, are you saying that there should be something in place for the dzo to know if their passenger has a mental illness. One of my Heroes has a mental ilness, an ex all black/ italian rugby coach. If you are saying this, how could it ever be clarified as to which ilness would prevent you from jumping? I do not know where i would stand on this but it is interesting. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #39 May 4, 2006 QuoteWhy do people need medicals for many aspects in life? 1. Often people do not know what is good for them. They think they know enough when, in fact, they have no idea. 2. Some conditions frankly present real dangers. A suicidal person should not be allowed on a plane. Now, how do you know a person is suicidal? Answer is you normally don't. But they are depressed. However, some think it is a persons right to do as they please...To a point I agree. I think you are free to do as you please until you impact my life by your choices. Wanna smoke? Go right ahead, but I also have the right to not breathe your second hand smoke. Wanna kill yourself? I think that is your personal choice honestly. However, by doing it skydiving you risk others such as the DZO, the DZ, AND skydiving in general. The FAA does not allow people with some conditions or medications to fly a plane. (I know this first hand). Do I think it is stupid? Kinda. But there are some conditions that people have that I do not think they should be allowed to fly. The problem is, who I am to say which is which? We have Dr's to make those calls. BTW the FAA now allows me to fly again. Depression is a medical condition, that can cause big problems. I don't think it is harsh or cruel to make people with medical conditions prove they can safely participate in an event."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #40 May 4, 2006 I agree with you 100% on everything you said their Ron. The question i was asking was a rhetorical question to the person i was responding to. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #41 May 4, 2006 QuoteRon, are you saying that there should be something in place for the dzo to know if their passenger has a mental illness. No. But I would understand if something was in place. QuoteOne of my Heroes has a mental ilness, an ex all black/ italian rugby coach. If you are saying this, how could it ever be clarified as to which ilness would prevent you from jumping? I can't make that call. It would have to be a Dr. Depression I am sure has levels. A mild "blues" would not be a case for grounding, but a harsh case where the person is suicidal sure would be. Again, *I* can't make that call. QuoteI do not know where i would stand on this but it is interesting. Would you agree that severely depressed people should not be allowed to jump?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #42 May 4, 2006 I agree totally!!! I myself took a month off after a girlfriend leaving me after three years, my car getting stolen and crashed with no inssurance all within 12 hours. Not cause i thought i would kill myself but cause i was depressed and i dont think anybody is rational when they are depressed. or at least they dont have their mind where it needs to be. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #43 May 4, 2006 Remember John Anderson ? The guy who tracked all the way in at the dz? He was on XTC at Nationals, 3K jumps, 30 yrs in sport, world-record, etc.. Haagen-Daz watched him. No reach, full track. He was last out on his 7 or 8-way (first group). I was first out on the following 6-way. We sat next to each other on the plane and talked a little on the way up. He gave no outward sign to me. Normal enough. People can certainly appear normal. Since they are about to avoid all their pain, they can actually be a little calmer and happier. I know more than a few jumpers on meds. It isn't a problem. I know a few who should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #44 May 5, 2006 Quote I can't make that call. It would have to be a Dr. Depression I am sure has levels. A mild "blues" would not be a case for grounding, but a harsh case where the person is suicidal sure would be. Again, *I* can't make that call. I think you'd have trouble finding someone that could. I suspect they would treat depression as a binary - if they have any, they can't jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #45 May 5, 2006 Some times I think people put too much faith in mental health professionals. I'm just a school counselor, but I hope to be licensed soon as a LCPC. I work with psychologists on a regular basis, and have taken a lot of students to them for evaluation. The more I do this, the more I realize that there is quite a bit of guess work on their part as to predicting whether or not a person really is suicidal. Most of these professionals have a check list of questions along with observation of the client that they evaluate. Sure they can make a decision, but quite often it is the wrong one. A lot of truly suicidal people can put on a very convincing act, just to get released. A diagnosis from a metal health professional is quite often the wrong one. They will document their decision in a effort to avoid a law suit, but I often wonder how much guess work is also involved. For example one of the highest rates of suicide is found in bi-polar clients. This can be very hard to diagnose. I attended a seminar recently where a Psychiatrist stated that it often takes seven to eight years to get an accurate diagnosis of bi-polar. The problem is that many suicidal bipolar clients often kill themselves in the first two or three years of suffering from this mental health disease. There are many kids in school suffering from bi-polar illness yet they are being diagnosed as ADHD. I had one professor in college who stated that having a Doctorate in Psychology is a lot like being a witch doctor, because the human brain is so complicated and there is so little we actually know about it. The field of Psychiatry has only been around since the 1950's. It wasn't too long ago when someone with mental problems might have been bled, hanged as a witch, or in some cases their heads were shaved and the warm lungs of a lamb placed on their noggin to draw out the poison. Sure we've come a long way. We are learning new things at a very rapid rate. Brain scans for example are beginning to unravel a lot. But I still look at the diagnosis of many mental health professionals with skepticism. Even they have a difficult time coming up with the right diagnosis. Predicting the potential of suicide is not always easy, even by a Doctor. A professional's educated guess would probably be far more accurate than a DZ owner's though. If the element of doubt is large enough, they should be grounded. I wouldn't want to be jumping with a suicidal person. If they are thinking of taking their own life, they might not mind taking you with them. If I owned a DZ I'd have to be a cold hearted old bastard and say they coldn't jump. It isn't worth taking the risk. You might be saving their life, by grounding them. They might hate you for a while, but thank you later on....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #46 May 5, 2006 I just looked up Bipolar as i had not idea what it was.... The symptoms were as follows. Kind of sounds like a person who lives on a dropzone....... Increased energy, activity, and restlessness (where is the pilot!!) Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood (yeah dude) Extreme irritability ( Bloody tandems) Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another (load organiser) Distractibility, can't concentrate well (Manifesting) Little sleep needed (every night on the dz) Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers (LearningToJump on his crossfire) Poor judgment (LearningToJump on his crossfire) Spending sprees (walking into the gearshop) A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual (hangover) Increased sexual drive (enough said) Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications(Safety meetings) Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior (safety officer) Denial that anything is wrong (packers) I dont know but i think the majority of us would have most of these abilities in us. Sorry trying to make a little light humor on this thread.... You can continue now .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #47 May 5, 2006 QuoteRemember John Anderson ? Yep. Quote know more than a few jumpers on meds. It isn't a problem. I know a few who should be. My whole point has been if they are depressed they should have a medical doc clear them. If they are on meds and it is controled I have no problem with them jumping."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UntamedDOG 0 #48 May 5, 2006 QuoteSuicide is a selfish act Is suicide selfish? Of course it is! Just about every act we partake in our daily lives is inherently covetous and mercenary, why should suicide be any different? Does this make the act any less tragic? Why do common plebeians make such a point to use the same tired aphorisms, proclaiming the victim as “selfish” Perhaps we are the ones who are selfish for believing this, and they are the ones who are selfless by throwing away what you hold most sacred? UntamedDOG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #49 May 5, 2006 This is where i hit the stumbling block Ron who makes that call at the dz the dzo or s&ta ??. What do we do start asking jumpers for medical records when they turn up at dz where they are unkn own. how do you differentiate between just having a bad day and being depressed. The other thing is we tend to go on trust more than anything else. these people do not walk about with signs saying "Im about to Kill myself" infact i would say they would tend to be more devious by nature. As happythoughts already said they can be very ordinary to look at and talk to. I honestly don't know the Answer here people its something that may not have a straight forward solution to. Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #50 May 5, 2006 QuoteI just looked up Bipolar as i had not idea what it was.... The symptoms were as follows. Kind of sounds like a person who lives on a dropzone....... You know, I think you may be onto something. I had no idea, until you started listing the symptoms, that most of my friends, and maybe even myself are showing all the signs of Bipolar. Oh shit! What do we do now!.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
