Pulling low (videographers)

[matt1215 0]

On one of my jumps yesterday, I pulled a little lower than I intended to (4250 +/-, intended to pull around 5k). I was last out before 3 tandems with video, and watched all 6 canopies open after mine at around eye-level.

One of the videographers pulled at what looked like a little lower than I. He had a really long snivel and my heart stopped for a second as I thought I was about to watch him go in. Looked to me like he wouldn't have had enough time for his reserve to open had his main been bad. He found himself under a good canopy and swooping to the ground at what had to have been less than 2k.

Do a lot of videographers die this way? I realize they're pulling low so they can video the tandem deployment, but DAMN!!!

[bigway 4]

Quote

One of the videographers pulled at what looked like a little lower than I. He had a really long snivel and my heart stopped for a second as I thought I was about to watch him go in. Looked to me like he wouldn't have had enough time for his reserve to open had his main been bad. He found himself under a good canopy and swooping to the ground at what had to have been less than 2k.

Most countries you have to pull by 2000 feet (have it activated)
A camera man needs a nice snivel so his neck does not break with camera gear, and they have to get to the ground safely to get in position to video the parachute ride and the landing.
The question is dont alot of people die being under canopy at 5000 feet?

However, the camera man should not have been anywhere near you. I am guessing you are not being let out correctly as you should not be flying where a camera man is opening his chute after falling down the tube with a tandem.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[linestretch 0]

nope, generally not the case. The tandems 'usually' pull at 5k, and I am almost ALWAYS under canopy at 3.

my pics & stuff!

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

How do you know he was lower than 2K? Just by what you saw? If so you were most likely wrong about what atitude he pulled at. There is kind of an optical illusion when you are above someone like that. They can look like they are right above the trees when they are at 3K. I tell my tandem students to watch the camera man after we open and when they do they think he is about to go in when if fact they all open fairly high. There is a chance that the guy you are talking about did go low for some reason, but it is not the norm. Most tandem video I jump with open around 3K I know I do.

[Icon134 0]

I usually break off from small RW jumps @ 4000 ft track for 3-5 seconds... wave off, pull and I am generally under a good canopy by 2500 ft...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[tbrown 26]

One of the videographers pulled at what looked like a little lower than I. He had a really long snivel and my heart stopped for a second as I thought I was about to watch him go in.

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Do a lot of videographers die this way? I realize they're pulling low so they can video the tandem deployment, but DAMN!!!

One thing to bear in mind, videographers can freefall a full 2,000ft (thats 10 seconds) after the tandem deploys and still open at what most experienced skydivers consider a perfectly normal height, 3,000ft. If this guy did open only a little bit lower than you (~4k) then he had plenty of height in the bag - even if his snivel was really long.

Why don't you talk to the camera guy about what happened, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you what heights he pulls at/ his hard deck for ep's etc.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[AEsco48 0]

Whats a snivel?....thanx

[bigway 4]

A snivel is when a parachute is coming out and deflating slowly, a snivel would usually mean it is taking 600 feet to 1000 feet or more if it is an extreme pack. Some canopies are made to snivel open, others are packed to snivel open. My canopy takes around 1000 to open and i love it like that. Soft as pillows a great company says!

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[matt1215 0]

Thanks for the info guys. You're right, there are a lot of optical effects that come into play. That was my 27th jump and my inexperienced eye can't begin to estimate distances accurately, but he looked really damn far under me. He actually did look like he was at about tree-level when he was open.

We had a fair amount of horizontal separation as I was downwind of the landing area, along with the 3 other fun-jumpers who jumped before me. The 4 of us spent most our canopy flights on a long final but the tandems/video had plenty of ground for a standard approach. They looked a lot closer than that when they dumped.

Thanks

• Quote

[Eule 0]

Quote

You're right, there are a lot of optical effects that come into play.

I don't have that many more jumps than you, but I have noticed the same thing. I'm under canopy and everything is OK, and I look down to see if I can see my AFF instructor under canopy. For a long time, when I first caught sight of him, I _always_ thought he was just about to land, and would freak out a little - "shit, he's still over the trees!" Then I'd watch him continue to fly, and realize he was much higher up than I thought.

This probably doesn't work right around noon, but I figure like this: if my instructor really is as low as I think he is, then his shadow shouldn't be that far away from the point directly underneath him on the ground. When I've applied this idea, I've usually found that the shadow was very far away or so far away I couldn't pick it out, which means he is a lot higher than I first thought.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[ChrisL 2]

Quote

Thanks for the info guys. You're right, there are a lot of optical effects that come into play. That was my 27th jump and my inexperienced eye can't begin to estimate distances accurately, but he looked really damn far under me. He actually did look like he was at about tree-level when he was open.

If you were at 4000ft and you could see him clearly then he was still plenty high
Keep in mind, you guys open pretty high.
I usually pull just above 3000 ft and I'm fully in the saddle at maybe 2400 or so.
Thats pretty normal and definitely not a dangerously low pull.

__

My mighty steed

[matt1215 0]

True, I do open pretty high. Then again my DZ runs loads either to 15k or 18k. That was an 18k load and tho 90 on the ground, my fingers were getting numb by the time I pulled after a good 75-80 sec of freefall .

I was at more like 3400 after I dumped & did all my functionals, and his pull looked a little lower than eye-level, so I'd guess he dumped around 3k.

[Peej 0]

Yeah that sounds about right (3k i mean). My TI's typically pull around 5 grand (maybe 5500) and i fly the opening on back, then turn over, switch my camera off and dump. I'm typically in the saddle above 3. Even higher if the TI gives me the signal that the spot is fucked and he's dumping out early.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[DJL 232]

Quote

Do a lot of videographers die this way?

Yes. This happens all the time. That's why we switched to gingerbread men at our DZ, so we can just cook up a fresh batch.

Ok, not really. It always looks like someone is alot farther away, especially when you're looking down at them.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[steveorino 7]

Quote

...i fly the opening on back, then turn over, switch my camera off and dump. .

Really? Any other videographers switch their cameras off BEFORE they dump? I know I don't. [emphasis mine]

steveOrino

[CSpenceFLY 1]

No,Thats how I got two of my mals on video.


.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Any other videographers switch their cameras off BEFORE they dump? I know I don't.

Yes, and I also use this time to knit a sweater.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Really? Any other videographers switch their cameras off BEFORE they dump? I know I don't. [emphasis mine]

I used to do that, when I had about 500 jumps. I was editing my own stuff with just a camera and VCR. The only cut I had in my videos was after the tandem opened, I would have to pause the VCR, and then start it up when the footage of their landing began.

Anyway, I figured out if I shut the camera off right after they opened, when I was still on my back, and the next time I recorded was filming their landing, I just record the video straight through, and get my rig packed while it was dubbing.

Why anyone would do this with digital (I was shooting Hi8 at the time), or why they would do it after the flip over, and the opening shot had ended is beyond me.

My guess is that he figured out that he could do it, so he does. I grew out of it pretty quick.

[Peej 0]

Dave,

Like i said to Steve in a PM, after looking at my tandem vids i decided that me waving off and my canopy opening wasn't the nicest thing to include on the DVD i'm handing to my customer. So now i film their opening, flip over and so long as my dytter isn't screaming that i'm super low i reach up, hit my cameye button so the camera is in standby, wave off and dump.

I've never seen anything wrong with this.

We edit with the camera and a linear board btw.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[DJL 232]

I think his question is more along the lines of why would someone spend time turning off their camera when it's so important to track away from under the tandem and deploy thy own canopy. I back track away at full speed and by the time they either have a full canopy or will chop a malfunction I'm well away from them. I turn my camera off after I'm clear and open and then back on when I'm ready to add some more footage.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[davelepka 4]

Yeah, OK. If you edit with a linear board, you should be able to fade out to a color screen, then start the start with the same color, and fade in to the landing shot.

Or, you could wait unitl you land, dub your tape to the end of the tandem opening and use a an overlap or wipe effect on your camera.

If you really are tryng to clean up the video, you need to stop recording before you flip over.

Keep the camera rolling. You'll want to footage if soemthing goes wrong on your opening, and you can review the video, and pinpoint the problem, as opposed to just guessing. Not to mention, you should have your focus on other things down around 4k. Pulling, clearing the tnadem, traffic etc.

I hear what you're saying, and even did it myself for ahwile. I stopped. You should too.

[Peej 0]

That's the kind of advice and answer i was needing. I see your point, thanks dude.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[DJL 232]

Quote

i decided that me waving off and my canopy opening wasn't the nicest thing to include on the DVD i'm handing to my customer

I disagree, I think that's a great thing to include in the DVD. It's an inside view of an opening. The more in-the-air dynamic things, the better. I slow-mo the tandem opening and then as I'm flipping over I put it back to full speed and slowly bring audio up so you can hear me yelling "Wahooo!!" as the canopy slows me down, thumbs up and end record.

I also have a very serious attitude towards breaking away from a tandem. I'm tracking away on my back AS they pull the handle. I'm not going to waste a moment fiddling with my camera. I've seen malfunctioning or snivelling tandems pairs come flying by videographers who REALLY should know better.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[steveorino 7]

Yep, if you ever seen anybody fly by you at freefall speed while you're sniveling under canopy, it'll make you track away on all future skydives.

steveOrino