Serious problems with landing... Please help!

[marysha 0]

Hi, I am desperately looking for advice from experienced skydivers or instructors.

From my very first AFF jump and till now I have problems with landing. I do not feel the canopy and almost never do I flare it properly. My boyfriend filmed my landings but I always made different mistakes to make use of those videos. Sometimes I stall it a bit high and more frequently I pull brakes too slowly which does not give me time to stop horizontal speed of the canopy. But I just do not feel it.

I started jumping - of course - with student size canopies, and then people told me that it is easier to flare more loaded canopies. So that last season I jumped with 9-cell rectangular 135 ft canopy (wingload approx. 1,15) and my landings really became a little bit better but I was not constant with them.

This year I jumped with Omega 149 (wingload 1.0) and it became much much worse (I have to say that the canopy was perferctly ok)! People at my DZ got used to my spectaculous landings but nobody could really help. I tried to correct my mistakes but the most problem was that I did not understand what exactly I was doing wrong and why do I have those lousy landings.

The only thing I understood was that if I do not learn how to land, something wrong may happen sooner or later. Quite logically, on my 172th jump I broke my ankle because I did not flare fully in unwindy weather....

In a few month I will be able to jump again. But I am very much afraid that if I do not improve my landing technics, I will simply have to give up and quit as I do not have a reserve set of bones for such mistakes It would be a big pity, though, as in all the other aspects I am not such a desperate skydiver.

ARE THERE PEOPLE WHO COULD HELP ME WITH ADVICE? Which canopy is it better to start with after a break? How can I make myself feel the canopy? Shall I ask somebody to guide me with radio station on my first jumps? Shall I ask my rigger to make steering lines shorter? Or am I a sample of clinical stupidity which cannot be cured? Please, please help!

[par 0]

i guess radio + hands with brakes down in front of you should help..

[D22369 0]

Where are you looking when you come in to land? if your looking down your depth perception isnt as good as when your eyes are on the horizon....

where your at do you have access to a canopy camp? with a good canopy instructor you may find it easier to learn.
What kind of 9 cell canopy are you jumping?

Shall I ask my rigger to make steering lines shorter?***

This would probably be a bad Idea as it would be easier to stall if you flaired too high...

on my 172th jump I broke my ankle because I did not flare fully in unwindy weather.... ***

keeping your feet and knees together with your legs tensed in preparation to a PLF if the flair is less than perfect will help prevent injuries.....

wishing you the best, it would be a pity to quit the sport because of this..... I hope you can find the key to perfect tip toe landings Heal quickly;

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[PhreeZone 15]

If possible have your BF put some of your landings on the web for us to look at and give you feed back on.

Also read this http://www.skydiveaz.com/resources/book_canopy.htm It will give you the basics of flying and landing a canopy. This article coupled with some video coaching should help improve your landings. One big thing you can start doing now is to give your self reminders to finish your flare. Slapping your thighs during the flare process and saying to yourself "FLARE!" seems to have helped a few people at my DZ. The verbal and physical reminders help them complete a strong flare. If they never slap their thighs then they know they did'nt flare well.

One question. Do you have any problems pulling the toggles down for a full flare at altitude? I've noticed some smaller girls seem to have issues getting the full flare out of their canopy.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[skybytch 259]

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This year I jumped with Omega 149 (wingload 1.0)

How old is the Omega you were jumping? IIRC the early ones were measured like the Safire 1- so that 149 may have been closer in actual size to the 135 you were jumping than it would be to a Sabre 150.

I put two jumps on an Omega 149 and couldn't land it well either time (I was jumping Spectre and Sabre 150's and landing okay at the time). Seemed to me to be a canopy that even at a light wingloading needs to be flared perfectly to get a good landing.

I'd suggest the following -

1) As soon as you get back in the air, get canopy control coaching. Even if that means travelling to get to it. An experienced canopy control coach can "diagnose" your flare and get you on the road to safe, soft landings.

2) Fly a docile and lightly loaded main (Spectre, Sabre, Triathlon, Hornet; I'd even consider a 170) until you have learned how to fully flare and are standing up at least the majority of your landings.

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Or am I a sample of clinical stupidity which cannot be cured?

When I had 200 jumps my friends were very proud of me if I landed on the dropzone standing up. Today I stand up 95% of my landings (thanks to taking a canopy control course) and I can put it where I want to.

If I can go from clinical stupidity to almost getting it... so can you.

[marysha 0]

with a good canopy instructor you may find it easier to learn

I already asked the instructors whom I know; the only thing they say is that flare should be done in two steps etc; I know this in theory but ... on practice I just do not feel the canopy. It is quite difficult to go to the US for the canopy control course, unfortunately

What kind of 9 cell canopy are you jumping?

It was last year that I had a 9-cell Spinaker 135, this is a Russian rectangular canopy.This year I jumped with Omega 149.

[marysha 0]

One question. Do you have any problems pulling the toggles down for a full flare at altitude? I've noticed some smaller girls seem to have issues getting the full flare out of their canopy.

Yes, you are right, this is one of the difficulties. Quite often I feel that I cannot pull the toggles completely down, as if they get entangled with some obstacle. This was one of the the reasons why I broke my leg: I was able to pull one toggle completely down but the other one "stopped" and I could not make it move further.

THank you for a tip with slapping thighs, I will try it.

[pilotdave 0]

Some canopies are definitely easier to land than others. That's what made me choose to buy a sabre2. I found it to be much less sensitive to flare imperfections than the other canopy I was considering, the spectre. If I flare too high, I just hold it and flare allll the way down and land nice and soft. If I flare low, I can flare a little quicker and even pick my feet up. I just do whatever it takes to fly the canopy right to the ground. On my old PD 9-cell or the spectre, I found I had to get the flare height just right every time or my landing would suck.

Don't know if you can get your hands on a big sabre2 (higher wingloading wont make it easier to land), but to me, the landings were like night and day from anything else i had jumped.

Dave

[marysha 0]

How old is the Omega you were jumping? IIRC the early ones were measured like the Safire 1- so that 149 may have been closer in actual size to the 135 you were jumping than it would be to a Sabre 150.

I do not know, maybe you are right as it has quite big vertical speed. The DOM is April 2001, it is one of demo canopies.

Thanks a lot for your suggestions, I will try to find a canopy control course in my region if there are any. And I will start with a big canopy, as you say.

[PhreeZone 15]

If the Omega was DOM of 2001 then it was really like flying a PD 135 sized canopy. You were loading it higher then you thought you were. This can make it harder to nail all the landings.

Canopy courses are offered all over Europe, Empurabrava has some, the Wingtips project in England is good, I think there is one in Italy and one in Germany too now. The Dutch have a good program going as well. Ask around, you don't have to fly to the States to get good coaching.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[marysha 0]

Some canopies are definitely easier to land than others

You are definitely right and I will try to get a proper canopy for me. But even the best canopy in the world cannot guarantee proper control over it without pilot's skills... The better a pilot is, the better the canopy flies

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[skyyhi 0]

I am a new skydiver but I had some flaring issues at first. I was told I needed to work on my arm strength or I would end up seriously hurt because I couldn't flare properly or completely. I started doing push-ups and working out my upper body with weights. It has made a HUGE difference in my ability to flare. Next, I had to learn to find the "sweet spot" of the flare while up high. I would do a jump and pull by 5k so I could just do practice flares to figure out when the canopy rocked me back into the harness. I kept doing it till I could do it nearly automatically. The next thing was having someone video my landings so I could see what it was I was doing. Ground fixation (looking at the ground below me) was a huge problem, as was "reaching" for the ground with my feet rather than continuing to fly the canopy till it puts me on my feet at the end of the flare. I don't always do it right but I am MUCH better than I was. I stand up my landings about 95 - 98% of the time now.

Your best bet of course is being able to do a canopy control course. Barring that, get lots of video and as much instruction as you can. You don't want to get broken again. . .

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[unformed 0]

I had similar problems in the beginning; would flare too high or too low, completely inconsistent. And I knew I would eventually get hurt. So I decided to focus on nothing bu canopy control/landing. Starting doing just hop-n-pops at 5000, as many as I could per day, and try to focus on flaring at the right time. The first few times you won't focus all-too-well, but by the 4th or 5th, you'll remember exactly what you did wrong the time before and compensate for it. You'll eventually get it, just keep working on it, as much and as often as you can ..... so you stay more focused. Once your muscles remember what to do, you'll be golden.

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[Albatross 0]

I agree with Bytch. Get some trainning. Any cost is not too much if it keeps you from braking yourself. Other than that Learn to fly your canopy.

First. Are the breaklines set correctly?? You should see no distortion on the tail at full flight. The break lines shouls be bowed out from the trailing edge and you should have to pull down a few inches for the lines to pull on the tail.
Second is the canopy in trim? Have it checked. It makes a world of difference.
After that learn to fly

Do you know what it feels like to Flare up high? How long it takes? What the feeling is? How far the toggles go down?

Have you ever stalled the canopy up high? TRY IT

Chris

[GravityGirl 0]

My advise as a jumpmaster (and defender of the gender ) is to get a nice 170. Pilot, Sabre, Sabre2, Spectre, Silohette.

In many cases because a girl weighs less than the average male, they are recommended to jump something that is just too small.

If you feel intimidated by perceived speed of the canopy. Then have a tendancy to start "milking" your brakes. That means on final you start inching them down a bit more and more before you are ready to flare. The result is a compromised flare and a shitty landing.

If you are on something that is fairly big and docile, you will have a chance to get your confidence up. Let that puppy come in full flight, then flare it like you mean it. No messing around! That canopy wants a little forward speed to have a nice strong flare and set you down gently.

There is a great pilot within you. You just have to have the confidence to let her out!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[skr 1]

Well I read through this thread twice and it's
hard to add to what people have already said.

I'm not familiar with the canopies you are jumping,
so they could be a factor, but a common problem
is what people are looking at, or how they are
looking, for clues about when and how to flare.



>How can I make myself feel the canopy?

Is a really good question.

Down at the bottom of

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/index.html

is an article called "Wings Level" which may
help you feel your canopy. It's at

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/c_wings_level.html

Skr

Edited to add that I agree with GravityGirl above
whose post appeared while I was typing this.

[nael 0]

I'm having the same problem with my landings. I have 23 jumps and I only stood up the landing on 1 of them! Every landing I am smacking in. I have had a few experienced jumpers watch me, and apparently I am flaring too high. I have started flaring lower than I was, but it is still way too high because I am still ending the flare way too high. I look ahead of me when I'm landing, but possibly not far enough ahead??

I am jumping the student canopies at the moment, a 240 I have a wingloading of about 0.5 on them, and next week I will start jumping my own 170, and I'll have a wingloading of about 0.7 on it. I'm doing a canopy control course in about 3 weeks, but I'm a little concerned that I shouldnt be jumping a 170 yet because of my previous landings.

I will once again ask some instructors at my dz to watch my landings but I really think its a mental thing now for me. I expect to screw up every landing, and thus, I am screwing up every landing. If nothing else, I am providing free entertainment for everyone at the dz.

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[skybytch 259]

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I really think its a mental thing now for me. I expect to screw up every landing, and thus, I am screwing up every landing.

So change the script in your head to one that has you returning to earth on your feet with a big smile. Everytime you see yourself biffing, everytime you expect to biff - change the channel to that one of you doing a perfect flare and a perfect standup landing.

Sounds a bit silly.... but it works.

[somethinelse 0]

Ya know, I stood my first landing the last time I jumped...
And the thing that was different was not getting so nervous about the ground rushing up that I fixed on the ground below me, but looked straight ahead of me instead.
NOW if I can only do that again this weekend!

[NicoNYC 0]

I say you call up Scott Miller in Skydive Deland. Schedule to take his canopy control course. It's not too expensive. I think it's about $120 for a 5 jump course. That's pretty darn reasonable. You can take my word for it. My first solo jump, I broke my ankle because of no flare on a no wind day. 8 mos I recovered. I didn't care to recognize I had a problem and then I went back up for my recert dive. I landed fine because the instructor cued me in on the flare. Next solo jump same thing. No flare. Broke my hand. I have two permanent screws holding my middle metacarpel bone together. 8 months later. Flew to Deland. I took Scott's course. Needless to say, I did 30 jumps in 5 days with great landings. Proof is in the pudding. He's got a great flare technique that will really improve your landings. If it's worth it to you to stay in the sport, take his course. Even when I land downwind, which I try not to do, I land standing up on my feet. Thanks to Scott, I always land nicely. I'm no swooper but I'm always on my feet. Like a graceful bird. My, I feel so pretty. Seriously, think about it. Good luck to you and may you heal fast. Here's a video of my landing back in May on a no wind day: http://www.superkatnyc.com/landing04mpg.htm

How many hits of adrenaline can you take?

[Jimbo 0]

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So change the script in your head to one that has you returning to earth on your feet with a big smile. Everytime you see yourself biffing, everytime you expect to biff - change the channel to that one of you doing a perfect flare and a perfect standup landing.

Sounds a bit silly.... but it works.

Absolultely, it does. Absolutely.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[eeva 0]

Something that made a lot of difference for me in flying and landing my canopy, is getting a different pilot chute. I used to have a pretty large one, that was not collapsible, without a kill-line or bungee... Since I've got a smaller PC with kill-line, my chute flies much smoother, and I finally feel something happen when I flare.
In case you've got a non-collapsible pilot as well, maybe something for you to consider too?

Grtz,
eva

I live not in dreams, but in contemplation of a reality that is perhaps the future - R.M.Rilke

[firstime 0]

I am jumping the student canopies at the moment, a 240 I have a wingloading of about 0.5 on them, and next week I will start jumping my own 170, and I'll have a wingloading of about 0.7 on it. I'm doing a canopy control course in about 3 weeks, but I'm a little concerned that I shouldnt be jumping a 170 yet because of my previous landings.

I will once again ask some instructors at my dz to watch my landings but I really think its a mental thing now for me. I expect to screw up every landing, and thus, I am screwing up every landing. If nothing else, I am providing free entertainment for everyone at the dz.

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Cant land your 240?? going to a 170??

watching someone get med-vac'd off the DZ aint
entertainment for me.

be careful

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