PLease Help Newish Jumper with problems

[overide 0]

Ok i have 27 jumps on a falcon 260 230 and a pd sabre 1 210 all no problems with my landings all standup

i purchased gear for myself this season and i could only find a pilot 210 now its used and has been inspected and is fine.

I however cannot land the damn thing for a stand up landing it will drift on my un predictable flairs ect

i only have 5 jumps on this canopy could i just be unreasonable in the fact i am expecting to land perfect on it? i have stood one landing up but i know i flaired high all the other are sliding in on feet to rear to standing or a plf (1 time)

i also had the issue of the canopy stalling in a into the wind approach today where i just made the landing aera i am quite frustrated just because i feel as though i cant figure out my canopy i duno what to do. mainly i am just wondering if its cause i am still new (37 jumps) (5 on this canopy) and i should just keep jumping it or if it sounds like sumthing else

i am considering having a jm watch me the next time i jump to tell me whats up and possibly seeing if anyone more expierenced will jump it and see if its me i duno what else to do

any feedback will be appreciated

[Hawkins121 0]

I have similar jump numbers and just bought a pilot 210 so I know what you mean. I had a huge problem changing from student gear to a pilot. The glide is so much better on the pilot its rediculous. I landed out my first 3-4 jumps with the pilot because completely overshot the dz..

My patterns and landings are getting better with every jump. Keep at it man, the pilot is a good canopy. Other than that I have no advice to give.. I suck.

[overide 0]

glad to see i am not the only one in this boat haha yea i was jsut looking over other forumposts i guess expecting perfect landings at my exp level is welll irrational haha i can plf well atleast. i just feel like i am a burden on other jumpers or they think i am unsafe but wehn i land i make sure i am avoiding them or other objects i guess their just busting on me or sumthing

[GravityGirl 0]

>>it will drift on my un predictable flairs ect
<<

What does that mean. The canopy will drift to one side when you flare? If so, are you holding your hands in tight to your body throughout your flare? No reaching.

>> i have stood one landing up but i know i flaired high all the other are sliding in on feet to rear to standing or a plf (1 time)
<<

Again. It's hard to understand what you are saying here. Did you stand up the one that you flared too high? The others you slid in on your feet or bottom? Perhaps on these you flared too late.

>>i also had the issue of the canopy stalling in a into the wind approach today where i just made the landing aera <<

How high were you when you stalled? The first thing you should do when you jump a new canopy is find the stall point and the optimal flare point. You can do this up high. Over 3000 feet. Bring your toggles all the way down until you start to rock back. That's a stall. You are looking for the point where you begin to feel lift with the rocking back part. That is your optimal flare.

You definately should have an instructor watch your landings. Otherwise have someone film your landings to review. It's amazing what you will see from another perspective.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[mr2mk1g 10]

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i also had the issue of the canopy stalling in a into the wind approach today where i just made the landing aera

Do you actually mean "stalling" as in your canopy partially collapsed and you started to drop vertically at a high speed?

Or do you simply mean you were not making any penetration into the wind?

[TrickyDicky 0]

In my experience (300 jumps on a sabre 170, 20 on my pilot 150) pilots are less responsive to a quick flare that you may be used to doing on the larger falcon and sabre. You cant "dig" them out as much as the sabre.

Try flaring a little higher than you're used to, and give it 2 stages. 1 (for me, down to about shoulder height) to level off and then further to slow yourself down.

I too had trouble with the pilot at first (flaring too late). The aerodyne dealer who let me test jump the pilot said that this was common from currrent sabre jumpers.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Some of what your experiencing is you mind trying to fly the new canopy like the old ones.The Pilot wants to fly a little longer than those old student canopies but your brain is saying "my feet shold be on the ground by now".Relax and enjoy the canopy ride.It's easier to fly than it is to run.


.

[ChrisL 2]

Quote

Ok i have 27 jumps on a falcon 260 230 and a pd sabre 1 210 all no problems with my landings all standup

i purchased gear for myself this season and i could only find a pilot 210 now its used and has been inspected and is fine.

I however cannot land the damn thing for a stand up landing it will drift on my un predictable flairs ect

i only have 5 jumps on this canopy could i just be unreasonable in the fact i am expecting to land perfect on it? i have stood one landing up but i know i flaired high all the other are sliding in on feet to rear to standing or a plf (1 time)

i also had the issue of the canopy stalling in a into the wind approach today where i just made the landing aera i am quite frustrated just because i feel as though i cant figure out my canopy i duno what to do. mainly i am just wondering if its cause i am still new (37 jumps) (5 on this canopy) and i should just keep jumping it or if it sounds like sumthing else

i am considering having a jm watch me the next time i jump to tell me whats up and possibly seeing if anyone more expierenced will jump it and see if its me i duno what else to do

any feedback will be appreciated

The flare in a Pilot is all in the bottom. Much deeper into the stroke than I was used to.

I went fram a Sabre2 to a Pilot and blew the first 3 or 4 landings because I was used to a very different flare.

Once I had it down I've stood up every one since then. You just need to adjust to the different flare.

__

My mighty steed

[overide 0]

thankyou everyone for the feedback alot makes sence too

what i ment by stalling was it was making absoultly no penetration into the wind


other than that when i said i flaired hihg i ment i flaired high came to a stop and slowely came down the last 5 ish feet verticly but slowly


and yea i guess i am trying to fly it like the sabres i am use to haha gotta reprogram my brain

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...
You definately should have an instructor watch your landings. Otherwise have someone film your landings to review. It's amazing what you will see from another perspective.

Great advice. Listen to her.

AND CSpenceFly also is onto something...

I would add....get coaching to get away from the 1-stage, 2-stage and any-staged flaring ideas.
Learn to fly the canopy all the way to the ground.

What this means is that flaring is not a 1-2-3 static process...it is a dynamic process where you are continuosly adjusting flair as needed, not just blindly stabbing brake lines hoping you do it at the right altitude/windspeed/wind direction, etc.

Watch good canopy pilots. They do NOT use staged flairing techniques. You will not see them flair in distinct steps (for example):
1. Flare to the shoulders
2. Flare to the waist
3. Flair to finish

What you will see is smoothness, more/less flair as needed - flying the canopy all the way to the ground.

As another has already mentioned...are you testing your new canopy at altitude? Toggle turns, braked turns, stall point, rear/front risers, etc?

Best advice, I believe, is to get solid canopy piloting coaching. Good courses are available.

Hope this helps...and by all means discuss these things with your instructors.
Having an instructor fly your new canopy is not a bad idea, either...line sets can get wacko and cause problems but, to me, that doesn't quite sound like what is going on here.

Good luck with your Pilot...it is a good canopy.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Feeblemind 1]

Lots of great advice from some very senior folks. I have 500+ jumps on a pilot 210 and 188. I am intrested to know how far do you have to pull on the toggles before the canopy responds to the imput. I had similar issues with my 210 and I had my rigger jump it. When he got down he took the canopy to the loft to shorten the brake lines. I am not saying this is what is the issue with your canopy, just offering another possible solution.

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[jakee 1,257]

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what i ment by stalling was it was making absoultly no penetration into the wind

Then why didn't you say that? A stall is something completely different which should know.

Other than that - make sure you can read the wind conditions. If the wind drops off and you don't notice - then you will overshoot your final approach, if the wind picks up and you don't notice - then you will land short.

Basically, on strong wind days then you won't get much penetration on any make of canopy, you've just got to be aware of that and plan your pattern accordingly (or make the decision to not jump).

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[councilman24 36]

Good advice above. Be patient. You didn't learn how to hit a baseball in 5 swings. Remember that student gear is often detuned (read steering lines lengthened) so students CAN'T stall. But that means that you don't get the full flare out of them.

I used to go to boggies in the non zp days and watch all sorts of experienced jumpers crash. I used to think nobody could land. But one of the mistakes was thinking that once you started the flare you immediately completed it and then you were done. You have to fly the canopy all the way to the ground and even after landing.

I haven't jumped a Pilot so have no specific experience.

Have someone video your landing and compare it to a good Pilot landing. You may very well see the difference in flair techniques you need to make. Just one more way to learn.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[MB38 0]

I have very limited experience with the Pilot and Sabre 2 [maybe 20 jumps on a Pilot, 40 on a Sabre 2, both of varying sizes], but I noticed a few things about the way they fly and flare that may help.

The Pilot was snappier to serious toggle input up high, so it was more fun to fly for me. But when it came time to land, I didn't quite get along with its flare. I found that the Pilot's flare was spread out through the entire stroke fairly evenly. It seemed to have more low-end "punch" if the flare was completed with some fervor, but if I only flared 80-90% of the stroke I would have to run it out. To compare, the Sabre 2's flare power seemed to be right in the middle of the stroke. I could get most of the flare power of the canopy by focusing my input on the middle of the stroke. If I missed that last 10-20% of the stroke, I could still land fine... there doesn't seem to be much juice in that area.

My observations could be completely wrong... I don't exactly have much experience to draw from... but that's what I noticed. So for the Pilot? Be strong with the flare and make sure that you finish it. Find the stall point of the canopy before you start getting crazy, of course.

It seems that everybody flares differently. They learn something and stick with it until they really gain an understanding of a canopy's characteristics and how to really feel their way through it. I really don't have a complete understanding of any canopy's characteristics at this point, so I'm just using the generic Brook Flare™ that I crafted at some point... and that seems to be more compatible with the Sabre 2 than the Pilot. Obviously it's not just a blind "and... go for it!!!" flare, but it doesn't have the refinement that a more experienced jumper would have.

For those curious, I've since switched to a Safire 2 - which the Brook Flare™ seems to work with perfectly.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.