PhreeZone 15 #126 June 28, 2006 Camping is free, but jump prices are never set in stone. If fuel suddenly jumps a $1 a gallon that cost has to be passed on. Thats the standard policy of about every DZ I know of, they reserve the right to change prices as needed.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #127 June 28, 2006 and "nomar" is who? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #128 June 28, 2006 Quoteand "nomar" is who? Does that really matter?? He makes some excellent points. If the WFFC Staff and Management really want to make some changes for the better.. Maybe they should Listen to some of these complaints. I think we all want to see the Convention grow and return to its former Glory. Many of us are willing to help in whatever way we can.. But it would be nice to see some acknowledgement that there ARE problems (Step One) and a clear plan for addressing those problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #129 June 28, 2006 Anyone here ever attend the EAA convention at Oshkosh? It's usually within a week or so of WFFC. The contrast is dramatic, and it's not just due to size difference. EAA convention is 99% volunteer run, but is actually well organized. It's cleaner too, despite hosting hundreds of thousands of visitors.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #130 June 28, 2006 Quote>Silly me, but surely there are more than a few skydivers here >with exceptional skills to make things right. Well, we try. Several of us here organize for the WFFC (without pay) Phree sets up wireless networks, Lew takes great pictures, Ben flies the jet in (even if paperwork issues prevented it from being a jump plane) and Jack gets a tent for the DZ.com people. But volunteers can only do so much. Doesn't Lew charge for photos? Didn't Ben charge for the Jet ride?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #131 June 28, 2006 QuoteCamping is free, but jump prices are never set in stone. If fuel suddenly jumps a $1 a gallon that cost has to be passed on. Thats the standard policy of about every DZ I know of, they reserve the right to change prices as needed. I don't see anything on their website saying that they reserve the right to change the prices that are confirmed and advertised. I wish someone from the WFFC would stand up and apologise for all this bullshit marketing they have presented, especially to international people who pay a shit load more to get there than the average american. ( i know the americans also go through alot to go get there, but at least it is cheaper for them if they are dicked around). I feel like the marketing has ripped alot of us off and i feel like every person who has stood up from the WFFC has just made a shit load of excuses to keep ripping people off. How many more planes are going to pull out? If the prices go up Don can refund us for our money spent on tickets to get their. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #132 June 28, 2006 Quoteand "nomar" is who? It really does not matter.What matters is weather you agree or disagree with the assessment or if you are puplicly willing or able to state your oppinion. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #133 June 28, 2006 Trust me.. we get it now that you are spending a lot of money to get there. Good news is the prices should'nt go up at this point since the tickets are probally already printed. That and this close to the convention fuel prices would have to really move to affect the overall pricing. The WFFC is a great time, I enjoyed the hell out of the 3 yeas I went. But I find you make it what you want it to be. When I went with no expectations I had a better time then when I went and had a long list of things I had hoped were there or different. If you are going in thinking it is a place where you see jumpers in freefall from sun up to sun down with planes flying with 3 jumpers on them... you will be disappointed. What you will see are planes droping jumpers every 3-5 minutes. Some times the planes might shut down if they are running really light, other times you might have to wait like 20 minutes to get onto a plane since things are backed up. If you are going to jump with LO's you may be disappointed to have to wait an hour or more for the LO to get their current jump together, jump, land and debrief. Other LO's tend to get a group thing going each day and tend to stick with them through out the day to create some really challenging skydives. If you just walk up and will take any LO then you can jump faster but the formations tend to be a bit easier since the LO doesn't know everyones skill level and does'nt want to create dangerous situations by putting people outside their skill levels. If you are going to jump 1 special plane then you are setting yourself up for disappointmnt since there are a lot of reasons that you may not be able to jump it. Weather might move in on the day it is there, the plane may have mechanical issues and be unable to fly or another 100 things. What you can be sure of is there will be good skydives made, Good friendships made, and everyone will have at least one thing theywill talk about for month afterwards (typically its the storm)Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #134 June 28, 2006 QuoteWhat you will see are planes droping jumpers every 3-5 minutes. Some times the planes might shut down if they are running really light, other times you might have to wait like 20 minutes to get onto a plane since things are backed up. well i am hoping it is that busy but really am starting to wonder from all the private messages i have been getting. Don't you get the feeling numbers of people will be well below 1000? I dont really care if you know how much i have spent on this. It is the owner, manager of the WFFC that needs to feel that pressure. Hey shit i could advertise a boogie that would make you all want to come from the states to another country pay a fotune and then not give you what i advertised and see how you feel leading up to it. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #135 June 28, 2006 After all your Bitching, Moaning, Whining and Complaining about something that you have never even experienced... I dont think it will be possible for anyone to meet your expectations. If you feel so screwed and you havent even been yet... DONT GO!! FACT: The convention is not what it used to be. If this bothers you to the point where you think you are going to get your moneys worth.. Stay Home or Go elsewhere. Over here we have a saying: You pay your Money, You take your Chances. Show up with a Good attitude, YOU WILL HAVE A GOOD TIME. Show up with a Chip on your shoulder.. You will NOT... It is that simple. And if Fuel prices Spike up again.. Jump tickets go up.. Fact of Life that neither Aircraft operators, WFFC and/or Jumpers can do anything about. Deal with it but quit whining about it. No one here or anywhere else is going to operate at a loss just because YOU spent $1,300 to get here. How much it cost you to get here is not their problem. Basically: Suck it up Cupcake!! Either come with a Good Attitude or Dont come. No matter what, there will 500 to 1000 skydivers there having a great time anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #136 June 28, 2006 QuoteIt really does not matter.What matters is weather you agree or disagree with the assessment or if you are puplicly willing or able to state your oppinion. I can say whatever I want to, but I don't argue with anonymous posters, no matter how many "points" they may seem to score with those who have a beef with the Convention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #137 June 28, 2006 After all your Bitching, Moaning, Whining and Complaining about something that you have never even experienced... It is called concerns mate! The fact of not going on non-refundable tickets is not an option either. My bitching, moaning, whining and complaining is due to having concerns about paying for something that seems to falling apart at the seams from the advertisements i based my purchase on. Is it wrong to be coming from another country and to have concerns? I know i will have a good time whatever the outcome but come on, the worlds largest boogie seems to have gone to the worlds largest boycott of a boogie. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #138 June 28, 2006 QuoteI dont think it will be possible for anyone to meet your expectations. My expectations when i bought my tickets was vendors, and more people than the 900 that went to Eloy. I dont really care about the aircraft too much as long as there is some balloons and helicopters. When you advertise something you have to advertise it correctly as advertising is what gives expectations. If the advertising is false or misleading you expect people to sit back and be happy? I will be happy with the social scene i know and am trying to come to terms with the reason i purchased these tickets is no longer valid. What i will not be happy with is getting there and finding prices have gone and there is less of a scene there than any other boogie we could have gone to after october for tickets that only cost £500 US to get to. This boogie was meant to be huge. We buy tickets all year around for around $500-$600. During this month though they are $1300. I think anyone would be pissed off if they based a trip on something to find out when it was too late that it was not bought on what was advertised. However i have managed to make other plans and go to other boogies after, My friends have not and i feel like shit selling them on this boogie when what they were expecting is not the way it is. These concerns are justified. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #139 June 28, 2006 I am sorry if i have moaned too much. It was just concerns. I can be happy with what i am expecting now but more bad news concerning this Boogie would just be really fucking annoying. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #140 June 28, 2006 Quote Trust me.. we get it now that you are spending a lot of money to get there. LOL - thanks for that comment!!! Bigway Man I don't care what the plane ticket was, if I had THAT much negative energy and worries about coming to an event I'd eat the plane ticket and stay home. I just don't see from reading all these post how you could possibly have a good time. But good luck no matter what.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #141 June 28, 2006 Alright, who needs a hug? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #142 June 28, 2006 Quote I don't see anything on their website saying that they reserve the right to change the prices that are confirmed and advertised. In this case, do they really need to? We are all skydivers. Presumably we have all experienced increases in price when fuel costs go up. Its a reasonable expectation that the cost per jump might change just as they do at your home dz. Cost of fuel goes up, so does the price per jump. To think they can (or should) lock in a price months in advance and stick to it no matter what they have to pay for fuel is not reasonable at all.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #143 June 28, 2006 QuoteQuote I don't see anything on their website saying that they reserve the right to change the prices that are confirmed and advertised. In this case, I dont think they should have to. Its a reasonable expectation that the cost per jump might change just as they do at your home dz. Cost of fuel goes up, so does the price per jump. To think they can (or should) lock in a price months in advance and stick to it no matter what they have to pay for fuel is not reasonable at all. Well if that is the way it is done in the states so be it. Other countries that have Much higher costs in fuel do not change their advertised jump ticket ticket prices when advertising a boogie though. I just expected when you announce how much your jump tickets are for a boogie that it is expected to stay that price. You guys seem happy with it being that way so all is good. The organizer should eat the cost out of his profits.... and dont tell me there are no profits cause i have read many posts over the years on different websites of what Don demands. Anyway, for all of you bitching at me for having concerns, i have been receiving a ton of PM's saying good stuff on asking the questions. There are so many people that would go if it was all addressed instead of covered up with hey its a party and you will have a good time, you will make what you want of it.... Anyway, i am looking forward to the parties, and then the cheap jumping at Summerfest. From an outsiders point of view it just scary going to a boogie that is surrounded with so many negative vibes from all sides. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #144 June 28, 2006 QuoteQuote Trust me.. we get it now that you are spending a lot of money to get there. LOL - thanks for that comment!!! Bigway Man I don't care what the plane ticket was, if I had THAT much negative energy and worries about coming to an event I'd eat the plane ticket and stay home. I just don't see from reading all these post how you could possibly have a good time. But good luck no matter what. This is not directed at you, mirage62, in particular. I think Bigway is doing a great job by voicing his concerns and asking for answers. I know too many others that have the same concenrs who are not asking the questions. Maybe that's because they know Bigway is doing it for them. Yes, he's spending alot of money to go. He has made that point, but obviously it's something that is heavy on his mind because he has mentioned it more than a few times. Instead of beating him up over it and giving him a hard time about it, why not try to alleviate some of his concerns with support and answers. $1300 is a hell of alot of money for some people. It's pocket change to others. I, for one, think he's doing a fantastic job of asking questions. It's too bad he isn't getting all of the answers. I understand his question about locking in jump prices. I also understand why that can't be guaranteed. Instead of running around his other questions, why not answer them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #145 June 28, 2006 Quote You guys seem happy with it being that way so all is good. . Hey, dont confuse acceptance with happiness :-) If the price goes up I'll be bummed because that means less jumps I'll be able to make. I'm just saying that it wouldnt suprise me.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #146 June 28, 2006 QuoteVENDOR ISSUES It is no secret that vendors pay a ridiculously high fee just to occupy the tents every year. What also has to be taken into consideration is that vendors also have to deal with employee travel and the associated expenses in attending this event. There is quite easily ten thousand dollars or more spent by vendors to cover all these costs. Simple economics plays a major role in a vendor’s decision whether to attend or not. Maybe if they didn't give away their products to every tom, dick and harry that promises to promote their products, blah, blah, blah, they would have more money to spend to get to events such as this. I am looking forward to the WFFC. I know what is like to volunteer an abundance my time to make the skydivers happy. Well, its really really hard to make skydivers happy, if you give them one thing they will find 20 more things they want and at 1/2 th price, cause they think they are entitled. If you don't like it don't go. If I bashed every boogie that I thought was disorganized and could have done something better, I would never be able to stop typing. This whinning is getting really old. Its like when people bitch about the USPA, but don't contact their directors, or go to a BOD meeting. Everyone seems to want something for nothing. I go to a dropzone skydive. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #147 June 28, 2006 Quote From an outsiders point of view it just scary going to a boogie that is surrounded with so many negative vibes from all sides. Thats just in one thread on dropzone.com. I'm going and I think its going to be a blast __ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #148 June 28, 2006 QuoteThats just in one thread on dropzone.com. What do you mean? Every skydiver in the world reads and posts here! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #149 June 28, 2006 QuoteYeah, the SAME hypnotist and the same material for the last several years, I really want to see that. The entertainment is pitiful and has gotten worse every year. How about something new for a change? (A hint, this requires planning, in advanc You obviously don't know as much as you think you do, because it has changed. I found the pop (soda) last year. Wasn't a problem . QuoteFor the simple reason that the registration tent is unorganized, the staff there are incredibly rude and incompetent, and the riggers hired to inspect gear didn’t come across as knowledgeable. Having to deal with people like you, I would be rude and very unhelpful. Maybe its just you. I've never encountered this problem. The staff I've dealt with have always been very nice and professional, especially for volunteers. Much nicer than manifest people at most dz's. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #150 June 28, 2006 QuoteQuote From an outsiders point of view it just scary going to a boogie that is surrounded with so many negative vibes from all sides. Thats just in one thread on dropzone.com. I'm going and I think its going to be a blast I am with you there. I think it will be a blast as well. I have friends from different places around the world meeting up here to reunite. I know that will be great times. My concerns have never been about socialising or being able to jump. Only ever about the marketing. Alot of it has turned out to be promised before it should have and i just wonder what else is going to fall through. Has anyone heard the WFFC owner say sorry for advertising all this stuff that was never confirmed. Over here in the Uk it says the Jet will be there to be jumped. (not wffc advert but perris). The person who owns this WFFC should stand up and apologise for bullshit advertising over vendors, helicopter etc.. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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