Mike111 0 #1 May 31, 2006 Hey, I was reading a poster and on here which says if you can;t see the landing area from the aircraft then it is dangerous to go. Im just curious as to whyt this is the case- if the cloud is high enough then falling through ti adn then seeing the ground would be fine wouldn't it? Obviousely im knocking the rule since its their for a reason but am just wondering to increase my knowledge what the reasons behind it are. Thanks for your help! mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KNewman 0 #2 May 31, 2006 Read FAR 105. It is in the SIM. The cloud clearance requirements are there so if there is an aircraft under the clouds (since you cant see it) you dont slam into them on your way down. Blue Skies and Stand-up Landings!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #3 May 31, 2006 QuoteHey, I was reading a poster and on here which says if you can;t see the landing area from the aircraft then it is dangerous to go. Im just curious as to whyt this is the case- if the cloud is high enough then falling through ti adn then seeing the ground would be fine wouldn't it? Obviousely im knocking the rule since its their for a reason but am just wondering to increase my knowledge what the reasons behind it are. Thanks for your help! mike There could be other things under the clouds that can't be seen. (big planes with lots of people, etc...). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #4 May 31, 2006 Gliders love to hang out underneath clouds ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brabzzz 0 #5 May 31, 2006 - There might be planes in it. - There might be a mountain under it. - The GPS might be screwed and you're now above France without knowing it. - You might be tracking into someone from the previous/next group, hurtling into a prematurely opened canopy or, if you deploy in it, fly into someone or something! Still, I've gotten out without seeing an inch of green (well, except the light). Big sky theory has failed, and quiet spectacularly - 4 ways hitting gliders etc.... --------------------------------------- Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club www.skydivebristoluni.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #6 May 31, 2006 There has been much discussion on this subject, simply use the search function… Forums: Search Results Your search for Cloud Cover returned 235 results in 0.687s. Link to Cloud Cover Search: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=Cloud%20Cover%20&sb=score&mh=25 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonfyr 0 #7 May 31, 2006 Many years ago there was an incident in the Chicago area where people went above a cloud layer, spot got really screwed up and they ended up breaking through the cloud layer to see nothing but water (Lake Michigan). I believe they all died. It's always good to know for a fact where you are getting out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #8 May 31, 2006 uhm, If I remember correctly, my tandem at CrossKeys 3 years ago was simply a jump thrugh clouds. All I recall was a white carpet underneath me when I exited the plane. I thought it was really cool at that time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #9 May 31, 2006 Quote - There might be planes in it. - There might be a mountain under it. - The GPS might be screwed and you're now above France without knowing it. - You might be tracking into someone from the previous/next group, hurtling into a prematurely opened canopy or, if you deploy in it, fly into someone or something! Still, I've gotten out without seeing an inch of green (well, except the light). Big sky theory has failed, and quiet spectacularly - 4 ways hitting gliders etc.... Y'know despite all that, I still love jumping through cloud cover. Pale blue sky, bright sunshine and a gleaming crisp white sheet of cloud a few thousand feet below is one of the most gorgeous sights to be seen anywhere on this planet.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brabzzz 0 #10 May 31, 2006 Yeah, same here! . I can't wait to take wingsuit out on a partly cloudy day. Clouds are cool, but i always go through them too fast and never have time to look around when in ff! --------------------------------------- Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club www.skydivebristoluni.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #11 May 31, 2006 QuoteI can't wait to take wingsuit out on a partly cloudy day. Two words: Fucking Amazing! The sensation of forward speed and the ability to dive at them, carve around them etc. is the most fun I've ever had. Plus coming through cloud at 6k, spotting the DZ in the distance, thinking 'I'll never make it' then punching it out covering mad distances downwind and opening overhead the LZ gives you a wicked sense of achievement. (only at my home DZ where there are huge outs everywhere.)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #12 May 31, 2006 I believe it was actually lake erie. Some jumper were treated to a skydive from an old B22 bomber. In those days, there were no rules prohibiting jumping through clouds. ATC was contacted by the pilot for it's position and a controller mistook a Cessna for the bomber and told the pilot he was over the DZ. The bomber, however, was over Lake Erie. Out of the 16 jumpers who got out, only 2 survived and the rest drowned. As for those who have gone through cloud, you were mistaken, it was industrial hazeI would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #13 June 1, 2006 In australia I believe jumping through cloud with a GPS spot is allowed, assuming you have DZ clearance to do so. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #14 June 1, 2006 Don't worry about the FAR or the SIM - they only apply in the US, not where you jump... well you could read the SIM - it's a good learning tool but bear in mind some of it will differ from what's expected over here. The rules which govern you say that from the plane you have to be able to see the ground between your opening point and landing point. This means that you can quite legally jump through cloud in some situations (you don't actually fall along your line of sight). It still doesn't mean it's a good idea however, for all the reasons listed above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloody_trauma 2 #15 June 1, 2006 Yeah In germany theres like nothing but clouds to jump through, but thats ok because the only major airport is in frankfurt and where i jump is right on the border of france love the clouds, except when they have snow in them, then they suck assFly it like you stole it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboyne 1 #16 June 2, 2006 Although its a lot of fun jumping through clouds, if Mr FAA sees this the pilot is the first one to get busted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying-Wench 0 #17 June 2, 2006 QuoteIn australia I believe jumping through cloud with a GPS spot is allowed, assuming you have DZ clearance to do so. Yep. My home DZ (Nagambie): "We are the only drop zone in Victoria certified to jump through cloud:We have met CASA's stringent requirements to allow us to conduct skydiving operations through cloud." My second tandem was through cloud.. but the cloud stopped at 4000ft. Im currently doing AFF and they are strict on letting us jump through low cloud, (high cloud is OK), because students usually get disoreintated in low cloud and might not make it back to the DZ. Lots of time spent looking at the sky, willing the low cloud to break up.. but good for teaching patience and perscuting experienced skydivers with pesky questions. (dont stomp me if it dont sound exactly right, im just spouting what ive been told by my Instructors! I jump when they say how high lol) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #18 June 2, 2006 I love jumping through storms, it is beautiful. Many years ago on jump number 113 I think. I was in a thick bit of the soupy stuff and at 4K I just started to be able to make out the visibility beneath the cloud I was punching, it was exciting then what came into view? An open canopy directly below me. Imideatly I threw my pilot chute, the intensity level was so incredibly high, I cannot recall what I was thinking at the moment but it was probably something like “oh shit”. My body slammed into the canopy and it was hard, felt like hitting concrete and just at the micro-moment of impact my inflating canopy pulled me out of certain death. Bruised my ribcage and cracked a few, it happened so fast. Me and the other jumper landed near one another and ran to one another and hugged, he said something like “dude, we would have burned in”! I packed and got on the next load because, well I am just like that. I love the feeling when death is only fractions away, it is exhilarating and I like the rush. So my closest call with death skydiving was in them silly clouds they warn us about, guess there is a reason for it after all, and it is just more than low visibility whilst in the soup. But hey, it’s a big sky, go for it (if you want to decrease your odds of survival).Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #19 June 2, 2006 Yup. If a DZ wants to jump through cloud, they have to submit a Cloud Jumping Procedures manual to CASA (Aussie equivalent of the FAA). This states who/when/how jumping through cloud can be undertaken and the procedures to use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #20 June 2, 2006 Thanks all for the answers... i see the points now!Sorry if i didnt do a forum search. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #21 June 2, 2006 The jumping safety issue aside, is it not illegal in most places for a pilot to drop anything from his aircraft without being able to clearly see the intended landing area and ensure that it is a safe distance from civilization and Farmer McNastys' fields (since he didn't give authorization)? -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodpecker 0 #22 June 4, 2006 Jumped today and at exit couldnt see anything but white/grey. Didnt bust through for 4000 ft.....hurt like hell, but kind of cool. Oh, exited at 10,000 and added an extra 6 second delay to all exits. This is in the UK of course where if we couldnt jump through clouds....we wouldnt be able to jump.SONIC WOODY #146 There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #23 June 5, 2006 In the US: FAR Sec. 91.15 Dropping objects No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #24 June 5, 2006 QuoteYeah In germany theres like nothing but clouds to jump through, but thats ok because the only major airport is in frankfurt and where i jump is right on the border of france love the clouds, except when they have snow in them, then they suck ass Where did you do all your "1" jumps, f.e. in Germany? JFYI: There are few more "major" airports, such like Munich, Cologne (my hometown, just 40 km from next one, which is).... Düsseldorf, large one.... You jump where, near the French border? Where else in Germany did you jump into the clouds? In Germany, I never jumped into the clouds, that I did much more in Spain dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #25 June 5, 2006 I wasn't aware there was an incident near Chicago where jumpers were out over water. If so, the only drop zone near the city and the lake would have been near Hobart, Ind., if it existed then. There WAS an incident west of Cleveland at Huron, Ohio in 1967, where there were 2 passes over clould cover at 6000 feet. There was no GPS then, so the pilot would ask the tower if he could see the jump plane on the radar. The tower said yes. Perhaps it was another plane, because the first load was dropped 6 miles out over Lake Erie. Some were picked up by a boat, others unfortunately drowned. They were jumping rounds and had the heavy jumpers boots. Pass 2 was over the airport, and they were fine. |I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
