Jumping with a tandem

[Akey 0]

What experience level would you expect in order to jump with a tandem. I.E-D-licence holder jumping with a friend who is a tandem passenger (obviously okay). But what about say a B/C licence holder? (I personally would NEVER jump alongside a tandem at my current skill level, i'm just asking how long it would be before i could, 200+ jumps?)

[Peej 0]

I think it depends a lot on the TM but afaik our rules here say not before 500 jumps.

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[bozo 0]

As a TM/I I would look long and hard about a novice jumping with me and my passenger.
If I knew them personally and had jumped with them.....maybe even had helped with their training would make the decision easier.

Of course there are already rules in place to address this question.
One other factor to consider.
Is your friend buying video?
The cameraflyer has as much say so as the TM in my opinion. If he/she isnt comfortable with you, that settles it.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[Peej 0]

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Is your friend buying video?
The cameraflyer has as much say so as the TM in my opinion. If he/she isnt comfortable with you, that settles it.

100%. I've flown video on a few tandems with outside flyers, in fact i started learning to do video on tandems by flying outside and gradually coming in closer. It has always been disscussed and we make sure that everyone knows where and where not to be.

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[jimmytavino 16]

last year our club established a waiver form which needs to be completed and signed by ALL parties involved,, the TM, the tandem student, the Videographer, ( if applicable) and the solo swooper....
If ANY decline to sign, then it's a no go. Our tm's and camera people know that they will not be faulted, if for ANy reason, they say no... though we try to be sensible and accomodating
Of course that doesn't assure ANYthing...
Safety is # 1. It seems to me that to dock on a tandem, a jumper must either be, a TM, An AFF I a cameraperson (well experienced)...
A fun jumper who I would OK to join us, must be ... someone with waaay more than 250 or 300 jumps,,, whose freefall abilities are KNOWN to me, ( I shoot video), someone who is cool, and ALWAYS under control, and someone who is significant to the student.. i.e. relative. spouse, close friend...IF a visiting jumper regardless of their jump #'s comes to the club with a friend who is making a tandem jump and wants to join.....They better REQUEST , rather than DEMAND to go along...and they must demonstrate a cooperative, and proffessional attitude, or else I would stand down from the video rotation.

Chasing a tandem simply because there is " no one else to jump with" on the load,,,, does not work for me.. sorry, but all it takes is one person who gets, UNDER the Tandem or OVER the tandem, or worse yet ( from my point of view ) Under the camera... for me to dislike the whole idea...( and it's happened )
A swooper, IF allowed to join the skydive, MUST stay within view, of both the tm and the video...dock on level and from the side.... No sneaking up from behind, no heavy momentum docks, no erratic flying, AND the swooper MUST GO !!!!!!!!! when it's time to go!!!!!!..(usually well above the tandems' deployment altitude.) let's be careful....

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[BillyVance 34]

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As a TM/I I would look long and hard about a novice jumping with me and my passenger.
If I knew them personally and had jumped with them.....maybe even had helped with their training would make the decision easier.

Of course there are already rules in place to address this question.
One other factor to consider.
Is your friend buying video?
The cameraflyer has as much say so as the TM in my opinion. If he/she isnt comfortable with you, that settles it.

Pretty much what my experience is. Depends on who knows you and your skill level. have jumped with a couple dozen tandems and done RW with them, and video on another dozen. But the 500 jump minimum is a good idea too.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Akey 0]

When you say min. 500 jumps, is this any 500 or 500 odd jumps the vast majority are FS jumps?

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

*cough*

http://www.manifestmaster.com/parachutist/big2000_09.jpg

[JohnMitchell 14]

Nothing wrong with that if you do it safely.
Vskydiver has swooped my tandems maybe 100 times. Never a problem with her, but one or two others have been less than optimal.

One day, as she was docking on my tandem, his goggles flew up and his glasses flew off. He was too dumbfounded to move, but Valinda grabbed the glasses, put them back on the guy's face, and put his goggles back down in place. Shit hot flying!

[azureriders 0]

I chased my first tandem at around 150 jumps. It was with a tandem master that knew me well, knew my pasion for saftey, and had made several fun jumps with me so he knew my skill (or lack ther of) level. The first jump was very concervative and I kept my distance. It took a few jumps but I gradually worked my way in for some docks. I now have somewhere around 30 tandem chases, on my quest to fly video.

So, in my experience it can be done safely as a novice jumper, but it should be done very conservatively. I would not have asked any TM to let me lurk if it would not have been that I knew one very well, and I would not have complained if he would not have been comfortable. I have now also lurked, an docked to, two of the other TMs a time or two, both of which gave me excellent marks. Made me fill good.

Keep it safe

[Akey 0]

At the moment, the idea of me doing that a 150 sounds a bit low, but then again, who knows what i'll be like at that many jump #. Thanks for all the advice, i think i've realised that i am a GOOD 2 years off being able to get near a comfortable jump # to go with a tandem (am a poor student), thanks for all your advice anyway!

[NWFlyer 2]

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i think i've realised that i am a GOOD 2 years off being able to get near a comfortable jump # to go with a tandem

And you know what? That's totally okay. One of the things I (and many others who are new to the sport) have had to realize is that patience is a wonderful thing in this sport. There are so many cool things to try that when you first start jumping you get into a mindset of "I can't wait till I can freefly/swoop/do CRW/jump with a tandem/get on big-ways/do zoo dives/go to [X] boogie/jump [x] aircraft/do a beach jump/do a night jump/jump a wingsuit/BASE jump/jump video/etc/etc/etc." None of those opportunities is going away and there's a lot of fun stuff to be done in the meantime to build up the skills for one, some, or all of those.

It's not a race, though sometimes you can feel (or others can make you feel) like it is. Enjoy the ride. Till then, you *can* try to be on the plane with your friends when they do tandems... and they can talk about how totally freaky it was to watch you exit the plane and wave at them as you left... and you can be the first one to high-five 'em when they get down to the ground.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[bozo 0]

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At the moment, the idea of me doing that a 150 sounds a bit low, but then again, who knows what i'll be like at that many jump #. Thanks for all the advice, i think i've realised that i am a GOOD 2 years off being able to get near a comfortable jump # to go with a tandem (am a poor student), thanks for all your advice anyway!

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One more thing to consider, so the TM doesnt look like too big of a hardass. When a TM has a passenger hooked to the front of them they have a lot more responsibility than just saving their own life.
They have the life of that passenger to protect also.
If that means limiting who goes on the jump, so be it.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Just because you have done some jumps with tandems that were sucessfull does not make it a good idea. I was shooting tandem video at 150 jumps back in the day but now after 1000 tandems I can see how dumb it was. Yes you may have above average skills and be able to fly with a normal tandem with no promblems. It's the not so normal tandem that can cause a problem. Do you have enough knowledge of tandems to make the right decision in a split second if something goes wrong. Sorry if this sounds harsh but the fact the you are giving (bad) advice on the subject with half the jumps then what is required, says to me that you you do not.

[cocheese 0]

I like the 500 jump rule. Even then. one should be very current and multi-talented in the air in regard to reacting to the unexpected. There is no such thing as a "routine" tandem jump.

Edit: Tandem masters are crazier than the passengers. I don't fly tandems, but flying WITH them is one of my favorite things to do. I hope every skydiver jumps (and lives) long enough to do a few of these. The faces. The fun. The everything. I feel more blessed than the student does to be jumping...with them. The camera flyer has a very sweet job and she knows it.

[Icon134 0]

I have jumped with exactly three tandems.

When I do jump with a tandem I only do so if there are no videographers on the dive and I always ask/get a briefing from the TM before the jump. my most recient tandem lurk the TM requested that I stay at within a window where he could see me and that I got no closer then 10-12 feet. (which I had no problem with...) he gave me a detailed explaination of what he was going to do and what to expect.

like others have said it can be done safely but a tandem jump (or any student jump for that matter) is NOT a normal skydive.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I like the 500 jump rule. Even then. one should be very current and multi-talented in the air in regard to reacting to the unexpected.

I remember one guy who had over 500 jumps, almost all freeflying, and was in training to be a TM. He chased one of my tandems and didn't have the skill to close the last 10 feet and dock.

Oh well, you have to know your limitations.

[brabzzz 0]

Docked on a tandem with 2 others at 300 jumps. No dedicated video guy. Nice jump.

You'd have to be f*cking stupid to be dangerous. If you don't have the skill, stay the hell away from the tandem - or even the load itself. It's not a function of jump numbers, only you and (more importantly) the TI know if it's going to be safe.

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Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[JohnMitchell 14]

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You'd have to be f*cking stupid to be dangerous It's not a function of jump numbers, only you and (more importantly) the TI know if it's going to be safe.

Ahhh, but there's the prob. Some people, in their desire to jump with a tandem, throw safety out the window. Our sport has enough stupid to go around.

[indradhanush 0]

i suggest 500 jumps minimum, godd 4 way skills. speak to camera man, never aproach the tandem from behind or from front. you may be obstructing video man in his filming. dont allow tandem student to catch your hand and you dont catch tandem Instructor hand.......and dont try to mess around if you dont have experience in formations

life is a daring adventure or nothing at all

[OnYourBack 0]

I don't like to allow it unless I know them personally, even if they meet the requirements. I let a father, with 700 jumps who regularly flies video at his home dz, jump with me and his daughter. He rode my back for 500 feet off the step and then kicked me in the face before I got the drogue out. You may think your good, but you need to prove it.

[steve1 5]

I'd say leave it up to the tandem master, and start by just lurking the tandem. When you start docking on the tandem be careful. There's a huge dead air space above the tandem and you don't want to get sucked into that.

This story illustrates what can happen. Shortly after starting to dock on the tandem, there was a jump when I reached down to grab the passenger's wrist. Sure enough I rose up and got sucked in. Ended up crawling around on the tandem master's back. Stupid is as stupid does. It took a lot more jumps before I was allowed to try that again.

Then a year or two later, an old jumper wanted to build a formation around his son's first tandem. Probably not too smart either. At any rate, since I was an old jumper too, I was asked to join in. The eight way was building nice. I had a smooth approach on the tandem and was just about to grab the tandem masters wrist when someone hit the star really hard on the other side, which turned the formation. I again found myself in the tandems well of dead air and bounced off his back. I mean I looked like an idiot in the video, but I don't think it was my fault. The formation didn't funnel. I took another approach with better luck that time. At any rate, building a formation around a tandem student may not be a very bright idea either.....Steve1

[azureriders 0]

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Just because you have done some jumps with tandems that were sucessfull does not make it a good idea. I was shooting tandem video at 150 jumps back in the day but now after 1000 tandems I can see how dumb it was. Yes you may have above average skills and be able to fly with a normal tandem with no promblems. It's the not so normal tandem that can cause a problem. Do you have enough knowledge of tandems to make the right decision in a split second if something goes wrong. Sorry if this sounds harsh but the fact the you are giving (bad) advice on the subject with half the jumps then what is required, says to me that you you do not.

After rereading my post I can see exactly where you are coming from and there is no need for you to apologize for your concern. The fact that I did this safely, and I do believe it was safe, was not the advise I was trying to focus on, although I can see where my post sounded that way. My opportunity to chase tandems, in my opinion, has way more to do with having a TM mentor willing to teach me the skills needed than assuming that I have above average skills. I do not think that I do, at all.

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I would not have asked any TM to let me lurk if it would not have been that I knew one very well, and I would not have complained if he would not have been comfortable.

This was the advise that I wanted to focus on and I would ask the original poster to reread my post with this in mind.

Thanks FlyinseivLP2 for pointing out my error