Incidents this year!!

[fpritchett64 0]

Hi,
Every day I look on the incidents forum to see how we are doing and make sure all of my friends are ok.

I'm fairly new to the forums, been on here for about 6 months now, and it seems as though I can check this out every Monday morning after a weekend, and something new is up. No matter what the circumstances, injury, fatality, near miss, etc.

Is this common, or are we at a high right now with incidents, more specifically fatalities?

Are any of us learning from these incidents to possibly lower the rates? This just tears me to pieces, especially when the majority can be prevented.

[jtval 0]

this year seems REALLY bad concerning the US averages.

one thing I DON'T know about is the stats for the other countries.


Very often, it seems that the start of the season around april-jun Ish) is the worst.

IMO people get complacent after the winter break and hurt or kill themselves. It's a shame.

one other reason why is seems as bad as it does is the fact that you DO see the WORLDWIDE incidents not just the US.


This year seems particularly bad IMO.\

read learn and teach. the only thing you can do it try to be proactive rather than reactive to an incident.

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[Andy9o8 0]

This discussion seems to occur every summer. In terms of incidents, we're probably more or less on track for an average year statistically. Summer is prime jumping season, and the weekend is the part of the week when the highest per-day concentration of jumps occurs, so summer weekends are when a large number of incidents tend to occur. Bear in mind, there are about 250 DZs in the US alone, and one of the larger DZs might do upwards of 1,000 jumps on a busy weekend.

[PhreeZone 15]

This year is REALLY good for the US so far. There are only 12 reported deaths in the US thus far. Last year at this same point there had been 24 deaths in the US alone. Looking at the cause of death this year there have been 3 low turns, 3 tandem related, and 2 collision related. Everything else seems to be in different groups. One of the deaths this year was a good friend and it hurts, but overall things are lookiung better YTD then they did last year at the same time.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Ron 7]

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this year seems REALLY bad concerning the US averages.

This year we are below average so far.

The database on here has
2004: 70
2005: 59
2006: 33

North America has:
2004: 23 with 14 as of 9/3/04
2005: 30 with 23 as of 9/11/05
2006: 12 as of 9/10/06 (not including AC accidents)

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Remster 24]

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This year is REALLY good for the US so far. There are only 12 reported deaths in the US thus far. Last year at this same point there had been 24 deaths in the US alone. Looking at the cause of death this year there have been 3 low turns, 3 tandem related, and 2 collision related. Everything else seems to be in different groups. One of the deaths this year was a good friend and it hurts, but overall things are lookiung better YTD then they did last year at the same time.

What about the 6 dead in MO from the crash?

Remster

[NWFlyer 2]

Same thing I said here still holds true... and we've had another one of "those weekends."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Ron 7]

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What about the 6 dead in MO from the crash?

Those are normally classified as a general aviation accident. It was a plane crash, nothing the skydivers did contributed to the fatalities other than being there.

To include the plane crashes that had no skydiver related causes would really screw with information. Kinda like saying that Honeymoons killed the couple in the CRJ crash last mth.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Reginald 0]

Unfortunately, you are seeing the hard cold reality of this sport, people die and get horribly injured sometimes changing their life’s forever. Some people delude themselves into thinking this is a safe sport. It is not. The risks can be reduced if one is smart about the chances they take. What kind of gear one chooses, what winds they sit down in, why kind of jumps they engage in, etc. are all important factors.

I personally think the most dangerous trap is complacency. Just because a person gets away with something one time, or one hundred, does not mean they will get away with it the one hundred and first time. This sport is about calculated risks, choose wisely.

I’ve had the displeasure of seeing several people die, most through mistakes, one even though he did everything right. Inevitability after a fatality, someone always says they are quitting the sport. I believe these are the people that had deluded themselves in the first place into thinking this is not a dangerous sport. Everyone that jumps should understand and accept that this sport is dangerous and any of us can die at any time, even if we do everything right.

Man, I’m sounding like the grim reaper maybe I need to go grab a beer.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Remster 24]

I dont disagree with you Ron, but I though we had a couple of plane crashes that contributed to the numbers in the years past....

Remster

[winsor 189]

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I dont disagree with you Ron, but I though we had a couple of plane crashes that contributed to the numbers in the years past....

Though aircraft accidents have a major influence on the relative danger of the sport, they are generally addressed as a distinct category.

Such incidents as the Perris Twin Otter, Hinckley Twin Beech, West Point Queen Air and the like would greatly skew the statistics, and obscure the fundamental trends related to skydiving.

In a sense it is illustrative to have fatalities broken down by aviation/parachuting - it can bolster the case that, dangerous as skydiving may be, your odds are often better if you can exit the aircraft before it returns to terra firma.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[Remster 24]

Thanks for clarifying that for me!

Remster

[jtval 0]

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I dont disagree with you Ron, but I though we had a couple of plane crashes that contributed to the numbers in the years past....

Yea, I thought that was all considered a skydiving incident. which makes JULY a BAD month.


(either way it gets classified, it is a bad season as far as lost skydivers .)

EDITED TO ADD:
the last few months seem to have alot of incident but as was said above; they comein waves. Most New seasons start that way and I guess we get a few spread out through the rest of the year so excluding the crash, I guess we're still about average)


One thing the original poster may be noticing is that you are actually researching the incidents.Before you started doing that you may not have been aware of so many injuries/deaths.

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[fpritchett64 0]

I believe you're exactly right, before this year, I haven't regularly researched a lot of incidents. Although, I have went back in the years past to see a brief description of incidents and causes and as anyone will probably tell me, I can see that the main cause of incidents is due to low turns under canopy, or just plain out poor judgement.

I had also been taking into account the crashes, so that is probably why I thought we were a little high for the year.

Now, as the technology continues to get better, does anyone see the sport having less incidents, or more? What I mean by this is for example, more advanced canopies, wingsuits, etc. Then also, more high tech gadgets, such as audible altimeters. Now days, since audibles have become so popular, I see more and more people not wearing a wrist mounted altimeter which I think greatly contributed to one recent incident involving an unexpected exit from 2 grand and numerous 2 out situations.

the audible and electronic altimeters offer so much information about the skydive, however, I'm sure that a lot of people are probably relying on them too much and therefore, that advance in technology, in my opinion is beginning to hurt the sport more than it is helping it.

What are some other peoples take on this?

[aaxman 0]

i was speaking to my first jumpmaster a few weeks ago, he has been in the sport almost since it started and he was saying that the jumpers of new are mostly greenlight jumpers. I asked what he meant and he said most of the jumpers today watch for the greenlight. then jump.. are newbies still trained to spot the drop, and have the awareness they need to get done safely or are they relying to much on the technology that has been brought to the sport. another thing i have noticed is that PLF training seems to be on the back burner nowadays..

[DougH 270]

I guess it depends on your dz. I have most of my jumps at a small c206 drop zone. I spotted through AFF, and my first jump on self supervision I spotted for myself and two tandems.

I talked to others students that are at a twin otter dz and they don't have nearly as much exposure, but how can you with such a big load.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[jtval 0]

I agree.
I was taught to spot. I also nowjump at a c182 dz in the summer that becomes bigger dz in thw winter.

its harder to spot if you are not amont the first out but you still have windows to look out of and when you get to the door you can take a quick glance to ensure you are in the genreal area you expect to be in.


I also make the newer jumpers spot whenever possible when I am on a load with them. if they are way off I help them correct etc.
the best tool for that is birdeye map of the DZ/LZ.

but thats the good thing about a cessna dz. I can ask for the door a bit early and help the newer jumper spot.

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[PhreeZone 15]

Correction, 2006 has 14 as of today in the US, I missed adding 2 to the database. The numbers are still WAY down compared to previous years.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jtval 0]

do you update the DZ>com faltlity database?

where is the first tandem who fell out of his harness?
is that one ofd the two you were refering to?

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[NWFlyer 2]

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do you update the DZ>com faltlity database?

where is the first tandem who fell out of his harness?
is that one ofd the two you were refering to?

That was last year - October.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Trae 1]

in reply to "the audible and electronic altimeters offer so much information about the skydive, however, I'm sure that a lot of people are probably relying on them too much and therefore, that advance in technology, in my opinion is beginning to hurt the sport more than it is helping it.

What are some other peoples take on this?
............

Like some-one said complacency can really get you dead in this sport. It builds up over time. Scaredy cats turn into cool cats ....& sometimes freezin cold cats.
AAD's and audibles might speed this effect along for some.

I personally believe that a slight over emphasis on electronica has been indirectly responsible for some fatalities. People that wouldn't have previously skydived now happily can with their psychological AAD aids on board.
Not all bad but not all good either. one negative poss is the tendency for people to go too far too soon thinking they can rely on the leetle robot. This can get low experienced people into some hairy situations pretty quickly.

In the 80's it was like some-one bounced every weekend ...cause of death...impact. (often an apparent loss of height awareness was a contributing factor.)
now it's more like lowturn fatalities or 2out aad driven incidents , fairly rare occurances in the slow ol' pre electronic days.

In general I feel that the gadgets are a good thing and have saved more lives than they've hurt.
What would save some more lives is more looking around during a skydive and on the ride to height. ie situational awareness.
So many seem lost in their little world when there is a huge 3D panorama in all directions.

it's the one you don't see that gets ya. (so I'm told)

[anewempire 0]

my home dz someone is always spotting along with having the greenlight. i've been up there where the green light comes on and one of the more experience guys will be be looking out and still telling everyone to wait... which has always been a good thing.
i was at a dropzone (not going to say names) earlier in the summer and i had learned to spot and plus i just want to clear airspace. i trust myself you know? the door opens and one of the staff jumpers looks out and i get next to him and i'm looking out too and he just pushes me back and i'm like "wtf?" and then he just tells me to go and i'm thinking "where did that 'save yourself' element that i was taught in iaf go?" (this is not my home dz but was the one i learned to jump at). honestly i didn't want to jump until i had had a look for myself but he just kept yelling and rushing. i know that he knew what he was doing but there's no reason for a jumper to not let another jumper have a look.

[jtval 0]

REALLY?! WOW.my bad.

It just doesnt seem that long ago,to me.

thanks, though.

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[Ron 7]

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REALLY?! WOW.my bad.

It just doesnt seem that long ago,to me.

thanks, though.

You could be thinking of the woman who fell out....May 27th in Ohio

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jtval 0]

yes there was a women who fell over the strapand the paraparelgic man who fell under.


I thought they were both this year

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