Ms.sofaking 0 #76 December 11, 2006 This is sad.I felt like a part of my DZ family the moment I walked in the door. As I think all of us did. I get as much out of the people there as I do skydiving. I guess I'm lucky to have that."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #77 December 11, 2006 There is almost always that family atmosphere at the DZ, but some get rather cliquish, no to mention there are some where it takes a fat wallet to get coaching for your licenseHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kynan1 0 #78 December 11, 2006 I have 39 jumps now after a few months of jumping and I've basically done solo freeflying. Sitflying wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, standing with your arms out was pretty simple, but I think the challenge in skydiving will come with flying relative to somebody else. I know guys who have a few hundred jumps scattered and can barely sitfly or another who has about 100 jumps and is all over the place in the air trying to sitfly...point being, I think it depends on the person. I have respect for everyone who jumps and enjoy learning from anyone who is willing to talk. Progressing in anything requires and open mind and the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. Jumping rocks and I'm happy to have found such a great thing. Blue skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beverly 1 #79 December 11, 2006 when you have the foresight to know that you don't know everything. when you have some humility about your experience and ability. When you can listen to anybody that can teach you something about skydiving. Nobody likes to jump with an arrogant hot head. Drop the attitude and have a willingness to learn and you will have no problems finding people to jump with. ever I think true friendship is under-rated Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #80 December 11, 2006 QuoteBut to charge, unless this sport is your living, I don't see why this matters one way or the other. It is none of my business if Joe skydiver is a millionaire or scraping by. And, I have no issue with the free market, either. If someone will only jump with another if paid for it, then good luck finding people that will pay. Ditto if they do it for free. My personal choice is to jump with new people on my own dime (that includes my own jump ticket - that's the caviat most people make when they "claim" they are giving back) when I'm not on other jumps. What other people do is none of my business. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #81 December 11, 2006 Quotehow many logged jumps does it take for an experianced skydiver to considered another jumper good enough to jump with? To me, that question seems as old as RW itself. The next question - that determines the practical outcome and is therefore much more interesting for the newbie skydiver is: "once considered good enough to jump with, when do I actually get on the load?" For your instructor you were good enough to jump with (assuming you came from AFF training) and since he is supposed to be the expert, once you are signed off you are good enough to jump with anybody else that has some RW experience. You probably will not kill yourself or your jumping buddies. But then - though you are not a complete nobody anymore, being licensed and all - unfortunately you got no buddies... Even worse, if you had boobies it wouldn't be that hard to find buddies, but since you have pimples...O well... It seems like if you were the last skydiver in the world, they wouldn't want to jump with you but here's a bit of good news: That is not true, not true at all! Been there, done that and finally got the T-shirt. They wouldn't have made hundreds or thousands of jumps if they were not as hooked on the game as you are, but being human and all, they want to maximize the fun and spending the skydiving $$ just burning a hole in the sky and seeing you flail around the formation isn't good value for money and will be avoided if there are beter possibilities. There are these skydives where the difference between what was rehearsed on the ground and what was done in the sky becomes so big that in the words of one of my buddies "we could just as well have given the pilot a 100 dollar bill and ask him to throw that out of the airplane at altitude..." Everybody tries to avoid those skydives and though on a collective level it might be true that nobody learns anything when all the learning has to be done from people who are better than we are, on an individual level we learn from those who can, not from those who like us don't have the faintest clue... For the rest it is all a question of supply and demand - there wouldn't be an official coach system in place or a skydive university or beginners picking up the tab for experienced skydivers if you were the last skydiver in the world and "Arizona Airspeed" just had to make that one more jump and were short of a guy to fill the plane. They wouldn't notice your lack of boobies or your abundance of pimples. They would pay for there own slots. They would even put up with you farting @ 7000ft. So, what can you do - apart from picking up the tab? If I can choose between the last skydiver in the world and the second last, the one that doesn't whine, is eager to learn, has some talent and is generally the nicer person is on the load. The guy that picks up a broomstick and sweeps the hangar, the guy that helps the student to untangle the knotted lines, the guy that volunteers to drive the car to the pick-up point needs to be less talented then...well...the talented guy. (I'm corrupt as hell, but what can you do... ) If I can't make up my mind I'll flip a coin. If all else fails - try growing boobies! "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hexadecimal 0 #82 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuote I've yet to meet someone who does 50 jumps a year who has any skills worth learning, regardless of the amount of time they've spent in the sport. Once again an anonomous poster of unknown experience and skills expounding upon who he respects. Really, Mr. Decimal, do you think anyone gives a shit who you respect ? Most of the people you speak of couldn't care less whether you exist or not. What makes you think they would be interested in teaching you anything. You think they desire your respect ? Hardly. Kevin Keenan For someone who doesn't care what I think, you sure seem upset about what I think Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #83 December 11, 2006 For someone who doesn't care what I think, you sure seem upset about what I think Quote Nope, I checked! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ms.sofaking 0 #84 December 11, 2006 That's funny.I could use one of those."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #85 December 11, 2006 Just how in the hell did they know where to place Pi? Oh...it was an irrational estimate, eh?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #86 December 11, 2006 >What i don't see is people willing to mentor the new guys for no charge. Come by tent 4 at Rantoul sometime! I see something similar, but there are two sides to that issue. One is that a lot of experienced jumpers don't do any coaching for free for a multitude of reasons. A lot of the more-experienced jumpers at Perris simply don't have time, for example. I fell into this category this year since we were making 18-40 training jumps every weekend. There's just no time to take a newer jumper up. Fortunately, there are plenty of jumpers who _are_ willing to take people up. We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. The other side of this is that jumpers are getting considerably more demanding about the coaching they get. When I started, the "coaching" we got was a bunch of people doing an 8-way, and afterwards someone would tell me "hey, don't crash into the formation! Slow down BEFORE you get there." Nowadays many jumpers want smaller groups, a debrief, video etc. And when a jumper wants that sort of attention, then it's not unreasonable to expect to have to pay for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #87 December 11, 2006 Quote>We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. It's nice of Perris and the jumpers to do that. I think it's very pertinent (to this particular thread drift) how so many people think that getting their slot paid for is now considered "Free". If someone (the student or the DZ) buys my slot, then I'm not doing it for free. I'm getting a free skydive. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites llkenziell 0 #88 December 12, 2006 QuoteI don't think it really matters. Personally I love jumping with people right off student status. It's a learning thing, everyone has been there, no one was born with 4000 skydives, and anyone who thinks they are "too good" to jump with you or anyone else is a cocky chump. Oh and another thing you'll learn is that no matter how many jumps you make, you'll never be happy with your skill level. You'll be doing things that right now you couldn't dream of and be thinking "God I freakin' SUCK!". All in all, just don't try anything too soon, and keep a positive attitude. Respect should already be there from the people you know (or they're jerks), and if you don't see it now, wait till you get in a jam and they're there. Shit, if I ever make it out your way, dude we're gonna jump together. Edited to add: Isn't Flying Tigers in Pennsylvania? Sounds familiar but I have no clue. I'm gonna pee my pants if I'm right. Hah hell yea we'll jump together if you're ever down here. I don't know if there is a Flying Tigers in Pennsylvania, but the one I jump at is in Clemson, SC (Clemson University = Tigers) =) "Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets -Love Life- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #89 December 15, 2006 Fortunately, there are plenty of jumpers who _are_ willing to take people up. We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. Quote Bill, I've always had a great time at Perris, I've been there a handful of times and never once had a complaint. If you remember I was even there for last year's 10 way meet(my team scored higher than yours!!). the organizing at Perris was exactly what I was talking about though, that is what we need to see more of. Even if it's not what some may consider coaching, the one on one, with video and debrief, if they want something like that and expect it for free, well that's another story. But I think there could be more skilled jumpers who could get involved in things like this. I understand some people are busy when they go to the DZ, especially teams and such, I'm not knockin those guys, more takin a shot at the ones who don't fly with newbies becuase they don't want someone to go low and ruin their jump.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #90 December 15, 2006 QuoteQuote>We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. It's nice of Perris and the jumpers to do that. I think it's very pertinent (to this particular thread drift) how so many people think that getting their slot paid for is now considered "Free". If someone (the student or the DZ) buys my slot, then I'm not doing it for free. I'm getting a free skydive. I think that Perris is doing two things: 1 - giving 'free' jumps to the organizers 2 - arranging for decent coaching for the newbies I'd give props to the DZ more than the organizers in this case, but I'm just from smaller DZs and those cultures..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #91 December 16, 2006 Everytime I think I know what I'm doing - I do something that makes me realize that I really don't. I would bet that if we (as Skydivers) made more people feel welcome (especially low numbers) our sport would grow exponentially. Jump numbers means respect? I don't think so. I'll respect the instructor who knows his students names before the hot-shot who won't jump with anybody lower that x-amount.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflychris 0 #92 December 16, 2006 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #93 December 16, 2006 Good Answer. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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Ms.sofaking 0 #84 December 11, 2006 That's funny.I could use one of those."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #85 December 11, 2006 Just how in the hell did they know where to place Pi? Oh...it was an irrational estimate, eh?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #86 December 11, 2006 >What i don't see is people willing to mentor the new guys for no charge. Come by tent 4 at Rantoul sometime! I see something similar, but there are two sides to that issue. One is that a lot of experienced jumpers don't do any coaching for free for a multitude of reasons. A lot of the more-experienced jumpers at Perris simply don't have time, for example. I fell into this category this year since we were making 18-40 training jumps every weekend. There's just no time to take a newer jumper up. Fortunately, there are plenty of jumpers who _are_ willing to take people up. We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. The other side of this is that jumpers are getting considerably more demanding about the coaching they get. When I started, the "coaching" we got was a bunch of people doing an 8-way, and afterwards someone would tell me "hey, don't crash into the formation! Slow down BEFORE you get there." Nowadays many jumpers want smaller groups, a debrief, video etc. And when a jumper wants that sort of attention, then it's not unreasonable to expect to have to pay for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #87 December 11, 2006 Quote>We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. It's nice of Perris and the jumpers to do that. I think it's very pertinent (to this particular thread drift) how so many people think that getting their slot paid for is now considered "Free". If someone (the student or the DZ) buys my slot, then I'm not doing it for free. I'm getting a free skydive. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
llkenziell 0 #88 December 12, 2006 QuoteI don't think it really matters. Personally I love jumping with people right off student status. It's a learning thing, everyone has been there, no one was born with 4000 skydives, and anyone who thinks they are "too good" to jump with you or anyone else is a cocky chump. Oh and another thing you'll learn is that no matter how many jumps you make, you'll never be happy with your skill level. You'll be doing things that right now you couldn't dream of and be thinking "God I freakin' SUCK!". All in all, just don't try anything too soon, and keep a positive attitude. Respect should already be there from the people you know (or they're jerks), and if you don't see it now, wait till you get in a jam and they're there. Shit, if I ever make it out your way, dude we're gonna jump together. Edited to add: Isn't Flying Tigers in Pennsylvania? Sounds familiar but I have no clue. I'm gonna pee my pants if I'm right. Hah hell yea we'll jump together if you're ever down here. I don't know if there is a Flying Tigers in Pennsylvania, but the one I jump at is in Clemson, SC (Clemson University = Tigers) =) "Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets -Love Life- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #89 December 15, 2006 Fortunately, there are plenty of jumpers who _are_ willing to take people up. We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. Quote Bill, I've always had a great time at Perris, I've been there a handful of times and never once had a complaint. If you remember I was even there for last year's 10 way meet(my team scored higher than yours!!). the organizing at Perris was exactly what I was talking about though, that is what we need to see more of. Even if it's not what some may consider coaching, the one on one, with video and debrief, if they want something like that and expect it for free, well that's another story. But I think there could be more skilled jumpers who could get involved in things like this. I understand some people are busy when they go to the DZ, especially teams and such, I'm not knockin those guys, more takin a shot at the ones who don't fly with newbies becuase they don't want someone to go low and ruin their jump.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #90 December 15, 2006 QuoteQuote>We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. It's nice of Perris and the jumpers to do that. I think it's very pertinent (to this particular thread drift) how so many people think that getting their slot paid for is now considered "Free". If someone (the student or the DZ) buys my slot, then I'm not doing it for free. I'm getting a free skydive. I think that Perris is doing two things: 1 - giving 'free' jumps to the organizers 2 - arranging for decent coaching for the newbies I'd give props to the DZ more than the organizers in this case, but I'm just from smaller DZs and those cultures..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #91 December 16, 2006 Everytime I think I know what I'm doing - I do something that makes me realize that I really don't. I would bet that if we (as Skydivers) made more people feel welcome (especially low numbers) our sport would grow exponentially. Jump numbers means respect? I don't think so. I'll respect the instructor who knows his students names before the hot-shot who won't jump with anybody lower that x-amount.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflychris 0 #92 December 16, 2006 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #93 December 16, 2006 Good Answer. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rehmwa 2 #90 December 15, 2006 QuoteQuote>We have several RW organizers who organize RW for free, and Perris encourages this by covering their slot. It's nice of Perris and the jumpers to do that. I think it's very pertinent (to this particular thread drift) how so many people think that getting their slot paid for is now considered "Free". If someone (the student or the DZ) buys my slot, then I'm not doing it for free. I'm getting a free skydive. I think that Perris is doing two things: 1 - giving 'free' jumps to the organizers 2 - arranging for decent coaching for the newbies I'd give props to the DZ more than the organizers in this case, but I'm just from smaller DZs and those cultures..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #91 December 16, 2006 Everytime I think I know what I'm doing - I do something that makes me realize that I really don't. I would bet that if we (as Skydivers) made more people feel welcome (especially low numbers) our sport would grow exponentially. Jump numbers means respect? I don't think so. I'll respect the instructor who knows his students names before the hot-shot who won't jump with anybody lower that x-amount.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #93 December 16, 2006 Good Answer. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
