your thoughts on the main story on front page?

[caspar 0]

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It has been found that personality types within this sphere can be genetically characterized by an elongated version of the DRD4 gene which regulates the production of dopamine and effects pleasure and emotion.

It should therefore come as no surprise that when comparing skydivers to non-skydivers it was found that the former have lower levels of death anxiety, which in turn lends itself to higher levels of target risk. It was also found that Skydivers accept significantly higher levels of risk and that 'More experienced skydivers monitor the risk perceptions of the beginning skydivers in their subcultures.'

taken from the story on the front page.

does anyone agree with this? i find it hard to fathom that they can simply say that most of us do this because of a genetic trait. i understand the power genes can have over us...but still, such a blanket statement based on one gene seems a bit far-fetched. we all skydive for various reasons whether it is the rush or something else. does anyone else agree?

also, skydivers have less death anxiety than other people? personally im shit scared of dying and well, i cant think of any other group of people that worries about it more, feels it affects and on the whole does anything they can do to avoid this.

it was an interesting article but does anyone else think its generalisations on skydivers...is a bit far fetched? or am i just spouting nonsense?

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[iamsam 0]

I'm not sure about the whole nature v nurture thing, but risk homeostasis I can identify with.. since I started skydiving I think I'm definitely more careful/cautious/aware about othe risks.. for instance my driving is a little more sedate, after being struck by the irony that would be dying on the way to/from the DZ..

I don't think being shit scared of dying necessarily translates as death anxiety - you recognise the posibilities of your actions and do everything you can to eliminate the unwanted outcomes (bounce!). You are of course still left with the possibilty of facing your mortality (do everything right and still die) but it turns into anxiety when you spend time going over and over the bad shit in your head.. part of the reward ofskydiving, for me, is recognising the risk ( v reward) and doing it anyway!

random thoughts..

but what do I know

[popsjumper 2]

I don't know if it has anything to do with genes but the idea of dying doesn't scare me...what does scare me is the possibility of having to go through a lot of pain and anguish beforehand. Hopefully I'll get to have a quick, painless death.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BIGUN 1,053]

The article on the home page has been shortened a bit from the original case study. The original case study was done during a time and the sources cited were from an era of learning more about how our genetic and chemical make-up affect personality. During the late 70's to the mid-80's, (which was actually kind of a pinnacle of studies originating in the 50's) there was a complete shift in our understanding of Psychology and Psychiatry. Within 15 years, we went from treating those with "mental illness" using shock therapy to giving people the ability to function in society through chemistry and science. We learned that having a mental illness is no different genetically than having diabetes and in some cases - is now "treatable." Great strides are made every day in the field of genetics. One could hypothesize from my comments so far that skydiving = mental illness.

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i find it hard to fathom that they can simply say that most of us do this because of a genetic trait.

Here's a clip from the original case study that leads up to the conclusion to address your question/statement....

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Zuckerman (1994) defined sensation seeking as "the seeking of varied, novel, complex, and intense sensations and experiences and the willingness to take physical, social, legal, and financial risks for the sake of such experience,” and called those with this personality type “sensation seekers.” Farley (1986) referred to this risk taking personality as the “Type T.” Both of these terms describe an individual who is thrill seeking, sensation seeking, and risk taking (Farley, 1986; Roberts, 1994). Sensation seeking can be described by a series of continuums. Those at one end of the continuum are most happy living very calm, predictable lives, while those at the other end of the continuum constantly look for novelty and excitement. This trait can be expressed in positive and negative ways, as well as mental and physical ways (Self and Findley, 2007). Extreme sports, like skydiving are an example of a positive, physical expression of sensation seeking.

Psychologically, sensation seekers can be identified through the Sensation Seeking Scale, Form V (SSS-V). The SSS-V has four subscales; thrill and adventure seeking (TAS), experience seeking (ES), disinhibition (Dis), and boredom susceptibility (BS). Thrill and adventure seeking (TAS) refers to the desire to engage in extreme sports and/or dangerous activities. Experience Seeking (ES) is the desire to seek novel experiences through travel and unconventional friends and lifestyles. Disinhibition (Dis) refers to a lack of inhibited social behavior involving promiscuity and substance use. Boredom Susceptibility (BS) describes distaste for repetitive, or routine, work and/or people. (Zuckerman, Kuhlman, Jorieman, Teta, and Kraft, 1993).

There are several biological/chemical characteristics that are commonly found in sensation seekers. Sensations seekers are most likely to be male and between the ages of 16 and 24. However, there are many sensation seekers who are female and/or in a different age range. Sensation seeking tends to decline slowly with age, which parallels a decline in testosterone levels (Farley, 1986; Roberts, 1994; Zuckerman, 1994).

Zuckerman has also found a genetic link for sensation seeking. Sensation seekers have an elongated version of the DRD4 gene, which regulates the production of dopamine and affects pleasure and emotion (Alvear, 1999; Roberts, 1994; Toufexis, 1996, Zuckerman, 2000).

Source: http://www.vicnapier.com/Risk/4%20Risk%20Homeostasis.doc

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[ChrisL 2]

The following opinion is rather coarsely stated, but nonetheless accurately represents my opinion...

I think people are working WAY too hard to try and show that skydivers are somehow different from everyone else.

We aren't.

Who the fuck really cares?

Nobody.

What fuckin difference does it make?

None.

They need to just shut up, jump, be happy, and then shut up some more for good measure.

__

My mighty steed

[Butters 0]

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I don't know if it has anything to do with genes but the idea of dying doesn't scare me...what does scare me is the possibility of having to go through a lot of pain and anguish beforehand. Hopefully I'll get to have a quick, painless death.

Totally agree. A problem with the article is that it doesn't take into account human intelligence and the ability to use logic and reason to analyze and manage risks and determine risks verse rewards. I am not a daredevil, I am a person who accepts risks to obtain a greater reward. Or maybe I'm just crazy ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[tombuch 0]

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Totally agree. A problem with the article is that it doesn't take into account human intelligence and the ability to use logic and reason to analyze and manage risks and determine risks verse rewards.

But it does.

The theory, as I understand it, is that we each have an arousal level that is satisfied by the perception of risk. That perception is both conscious and subconscious. It’s an important consideration in risk management.

We can reduce accidents by reducing the risk factors, but those people predisposed to risk behavior will simply adjust their behavior in other ways to achieve the same level of perceived risk. An alternative is to address the perception of risk, rather than the specific behaviors.

When I look at this issue in the ski industry I see an industry that intentionally hides injuries and risks, giving participants the perception that the sport is relatively safe. If instead we publicized the actual injury rate we might change the public perception of the risk, and through that mechanism might change behaviors. Obviously the ski industry is afraid to do that because participation itself might be reduced.

When we apply this to the skydiving industry, we again see that there is a perception of low risk among many participants, when in fact, the risk is quite large. If we can change that perception, we may be able to change behaviors. Here is an interesting contrast: Last year there were 30,618 members of USPA and 21 fatalities. That creates a fatality rate of 1:1,458. Contrast that with the odds of winning a Powerball jackpot at 1:146,107,962. Many of us believe we are relatively safe in the skydiving world and won’t die, but at the same time we believe there is at least a small chance of winning that lottery jackpot. We have a very false perception of risk in the skydiving world, mostly driven by our own participation in risk management decisions. Yet, more than 1/2 of our fatalities last year occurred to jumpers with C and D licenses, who likewise believed that they wouldn’t be killed.

So, the research suggests we can increase engineering barriers and regulations, but that those actions will simply change risk behaviors rather than reduce actual risk exposure. The alternative is to change behavior through improved perception of risk. It’s interesting stuff.

For more discussion about risk management, check out the articles I wrote for the S&TA area of The Ranch web site at http://theblueskyranch.com/STA.php. See article 7 “Skydiving Risk” for a statistical analysis done several years ago, and article 17 “A Safety Culture” about different ways to think about risk.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[MakeItHappen 15]

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It has been found that personality types within this sphere can be genetically characterized by an elongated version of the DRD4 gene which regulates the production of dopamine and effects pleasure and emotion.

It should therefore come as no surprise that when comparing skydivers to non-skydivers it was found that the former have lower levels of death anxiety, which in turn lends itself to higher levels of target risk. It was also found that Skydivers accept significantly higher levels of risk and that 'More experienced skydivers monitor the risk perceptions of the beginning skydivers in their subcultures.'

taken from the story on the front page.

does anyone agree with this? i find it hard to fathom that they can simply say that most of us do this because of a genetic trait. i understand the power genes can have over us...but still, such a blanket statement based on one gene seems a bit far-fetched. we all skydive for various reasons whether it is the rush or something else. does anyone else agree?

also, skydivers have less death anxiety than other people? personally im shit scared of dying and well, i cant think of any other group of people that worries about it more, feels it affects and on the whole does anything they can do to avoid this.

it was an interesting article but does anyone else think its generalisations on skydivers...is a bit far fetched? or am i just spouting nonsense?

The 'logic' of that article implies that banning AADs will reduce the canopy related deaths
because adding in AADs to the picture shifted the fatalities from low/no pulls to canopy accidents.

Gizmos interfer with Darwinism, survival of the fittest.
AADs save the people that couldn't save themself.
They go on to do other stupid shit in a different area.

It's not a displaced risk assessment or choice. It's a displacement of where someone screws up, because a gizmo saves them in one area but not another.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[steveorino 7]

A couple of snidbits from a Master's level paper I did on skydiving that indicate some of the same findings (in general)

In Western society it is the norm to avoid risk and eliminate all dangers. For example look at all the precautions the typical parent takes when equipping their child for either skating or bicycling today, such as helmets, elbow and wrist guards. Compare this to other countries or the USA prior to the 1960s. If our culture is continually striving for a zero-risk society, then those who go against these social norms are deemed foolish, or at the very least different. Contrary to the belief that one must be crazy to desire to jump from “perfectly good airplanes” Ogilvie (1974) discovered that neither emotional instability nor neuroticism increased as the risk increased. He suggested that high-risk athletes are addicted to the rush they feel when participating in risky sports. In other words they need the stimulus from high-risk sports that will extend their emotional, physical and intellectual limits to escape the mundane state of everyday life.

According to Freudian interpretation, skydivers, and other high-risk takers have a death wish; their repetitive life threatening behaviors among the general populace would be considered as expressing suicide tendencies. However there is strong evidence that high risk activities are hard-wired into our brain. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter commonly associated with pleasure sensations in our brain. Activities such as eating and sex trigger release of dopamine. Other activities that are intense, such as high-risk sports like skydiving, also trigger a dopamine reaction. Those who repeatedly seek sensations from high-risk sports, such as skydiving, have been associated with lower levels of dopamine circulating in their bodies. Therefore, because they are often in a state of under-arousal, their desire to exercise risky behaviors is not necessarily associated with bringing on a high, but to bring them to a more normal state of arousal. Despite the public’s perception, extreme sport participants require constant care, intense training, and above all discipline and control. “In direct contrast to the Freudian position, we put ourselves at risk not because we have a death wish, but because we wish to confront and overcome our deepest fears.” (Pain & Pain, 2005, p. 534)

steveOrino

[airtwardo 6]

“In direct contrast to the Freudian position, we put ourselves at risk not because we have a death wish, but because we wish to confront and overcome our deepest fears.” (Pain & Pain, 2005, p. 534)

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In an effort to get the dopamine levels up..and enjoy a 'normal' life!

I LIKE IT!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnRich 4]

Just say what you mean in the title, without the vagueness.

[Butters 0]

I think I understand ... a person will accept an initial level of risk and when the person is capable of lowering the initial level of risk they will add other risks to maintain the initial level of risk because that level of risk is a reward in itself for the person (and the initial level of risk is determined by a specific gene).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[kelpdiver 2]

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it was an interesting article but does anyone else think its generalisations on skydivers...is a bit far fetched? or am i just spouting nonsense?

Most of social science on how people are different look at small differences and over generalize them. Just look at the volumes of books on how men and women think, act, and talk differently. Or how the workers of Gen Y are fundamentally different (they're not).

Some skydivers like going fast. Some are too dumb to know the risk. Some accept the risk. Some may have this chemical deficit.

Still, it's a big step forward from the even more simplistic thinking that we're suicidal.

[mnskydiver688 0]

I agree with what is stated in the article. I like to use the example of downhill skiing. As someone gets better and better at skiing they are going to try new and more dangerous terrain. The bunny hill no longer holds the same thrill. So while a skier is more aware of the dangers and possible outcomes, skiing on more difficult terrain is more exciting and appealing. Some personalities are fine with just staying on the groomers, but some venture further and search for more exciting and ultimately more dangerous terrain. I know I do it. Cars are safer and more capable than in the past, but then we all drive faster. Anywho enough with my rambling.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[FallingDuck 0]

The generalization dose bother me a bit, however there is the fact that we jump out of plains. I don't think that there is a single reason or factor, but we all share a less then standard fear of heights, or falling or something. Personally I get more scared putting the Christmas lights on my house then jumping. Everybody fears death, we just fear a falling death a little less then the average person.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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The generalization dose bother me a bit, however there is the fact that we jump out of plains. I don't think that there is a single reason or factor, but we all share a less then standard fear of heights, or falling or something.

There are lots of cliffs and trees with heights of tens and hundreds of feet which eliminated individual animals that got too close, thus selecting for a fear of heights which remains to this day at the reptillian core of our brains.

There are very few cliffs in the thousands of feet range and none past ten thousand feet so we never evolved a fear of airplane-like altitudes.

Making parachute jumps from hundreds of feet where you have an instinctive aversion to heights is a whole new level of fear that makes what you experienced on your first skydive above BSR minimum pack opening altitudes seem like a roller coaster ride in comparison.