eted71 0 #1 June 6, 2007 I am a few weeks late in posting this, and am probably violating some rule('s) by posting in this forum since I was not injured (with exception of some substantial bruising), or killed. I am a student (static line progression), who experienced a bag lock on my 16th jump (not counting military static line jumps in my past life). On my first 15 sec delay, after completing right and left 90 degree turns, I waved off and pulled at 4200'. After reaching 6 seconds with ripcord in hand and looking over right shoulder, I felt, heard or saw nothing from my main. As the baseball field to the north was growing larger and I was still in freefall, I executed SOS emergency procedures by pulling the reserve ripcord handle. After a very hard reserve opening, I uneventfully landed. The bag lock was confirmed from the observers on the ground, as I had no indication that anything at all had happened after pulling the ripcord. Because I am still awaiting my packing class, one of the packers had packed my rig. I will make my last 45 sec delay (before solo status) jump tomorrow if the weather holds out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VincentVL. 0 #2 June 6, 2007 Can't you ask some dude to teach you how to pack? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydave238 0 #3 June 6, 2007 Quote The bag lock was confirmed from the observers on the ground, as I had no indication that anything at all had happened after pulling the ripcord. Thats very strange. Usualy a bag lock creates enough drag to pull you into a standing or sitting position, so you would normaly notice it immedietly. Anyone got any ideas as to why this might not have happeded in this case? Quote After reaching 6 seconds with ripcord in hand and looking over right shoulder, I felt, heard or saw nothing from my main 6 seconds is a little bit long to wait for a canopy to be above your head But well done savin yourself! DaveReady...Set...Go..! SkydiveSwakop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #4 June 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe bag lock was confirmed from the observers on the ground, as I had no indication that anything at all had happened after pulling the ripcord. Thats very strange. Usualy a bag lock creates enough drag to pull you into a standing or sitting position, so you would normaly notice it immedietly. Anyone got any ideas as to why this might not have happeded in this case? To me it sounds like he's describing a total mal on tyhe main no? ie. nothing even came out the container? Surely if he had a traditional bag lock he should have cutaway and then pulled his reserve? To me it sounds like he's describing that he went straight to his resevrve? Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #5 June 6, 2007 The SOS system cuts away and pulls the reserve with one handle. (Single Operation System) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydave238 0 #6 June 6, 2007 QuoteTo me it sounds like he's describing a total mal on tyhe main no? ie. nothing even came out the container? Thats the first thing that popped into my mind aswell. QuoteAfter reaching 6 seconds with ripcord in hand and looking over right shoulder, I felt, heard or saw nothing from my main. I cant see how a spring loaded pilot chute plus the main "locked" d-bag can have gone unnoticed by the jumper.Ready...Set...Go..! SkydiveSwakop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #7 June 6, 2007 QuoteAfter reaching 6 seconds with ripcord in hand and looking over right shoulder, I felt, heard or saw nothing from my main. Thats what makes me think total.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #8 June 6, 2007 Why do you think it was a total when he already said that others on the ground saw the baglock, it doesn't always stand a jumper up. His counting to 6 might have been at an "enhanced" rate.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pinkfairy 0 #9 June 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteAfter reaching 6 seconds with ripcord in hand and looking over right shoulder, I felt, heard or saw nothing from my main. Thats what makes me think total. When you have a high speed mal like a bag lock, you don't look up and wonder "gee, is this a bag lock or a total, or maybe a PCIT?", you pull your handles. It sounds like that was what you did. I think there are other discussions here about if a bag lock would stand you up, and if I remember correctly, that is not always the case. But I have never had a bag lock (yet).Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #10 June 6, 2007 Im not debating the action he took. I didn't exactly tell him to PLF With an SOS system there is only one action you can take anyway. 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydave238 0 #11 June 6, 2007 Quote Why do you think it was a total when he already said that others on the ground saw the baglock, it doesn't always stand a jumper up. I have never seem a bag lock before. Only seen footage of some during my FJC and in all these instances the jumper was pulled into a standing/sitting position. I think you mis understand what im asking. I was only enquiring if there are instances where this doesnt happen. And obviously now i know. Quote His counting to 6 might have been at an "enhanced" rate. You could be right about that, but then again it could have been even slower than he thought. (Temporal distortion) Quote looking over right shoulder, I felt, heard or saw nothing from my main So if it was a bag lock then why didnt he see the PC or D-bag?Ready...Set...Go..! SkydiveSwakop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 June 6, 2007 <> Possibly, because like on mine, you dont take everything in. At terminal, altitude is going by really fast so...... You pitch, count - nothing, quick look (dont see what you expect to see!!) and then EPS P.S I didn't get stood up either. On the ground, my canopy was mostly still in the bag, so I 'assumed' a bag-lock occured. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #13 June 6, 2007 Ah.... my first ever 2-way 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #14 June 6, 2007 Some times a bag lock stands you up and some times it doesn't. For example, the first time I suffered a bag lock, my spine remained almost horizontal. Since my second bag lock included a tandem drogue, it pulled me upright. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #15 June 6, 2007 Yeap - knew it's couldn't have been my fault, entirely ('cept it was.... I assume a packing problem). How are you lad? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #16 June 6, 2007 Thanks for that, I was beginning to think that I had remembered the incident wrong. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydave238 0 #17 June 6, 2007 Quote Possibly, because like on mine, you dont take everything in. At terminal, altitude is going by really fast so...... You pitch, count - nothing, quick look (dont see what you expect to see!!) and then EPS Good point. Never thought of it like that.Ready...Set...Go..! SkydiveSwakop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #18 June 6, 2007 Better to pay for a repack than the ferryman to Valhalla (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eted71 0 #19 June 6, 2007 That is basically how it went, although I did look over my shoulder to clear a possible pilot chute hesitation. I didn't see anything, and it took until I got on the ground to hear from witnesses for me to realize that what had occurred. Not mentioned in my original post was the fact that a coach was in freefall with me observing when this occurred and he also supported the bag lock theory. I didn't see, feel, or hear anything from my main and was definitely not stood upright (as I also would have thought). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #20 June 6, 2007 A bag lock will not always stand you up. It depends on how much of your lines are out before the lock. If only a stow or two where released then everything can remain in your burble and not create the drag necessary to pull you upright. Hence the look over your shoulder first logic on any delayed deployment. I've been there done that. If somehow the risers or lines hiched on part of the container the same scenario. You executed your emergency proceedures and lived. That's the biggest lesson here, good for you. Although six seconds is a long wait, maybe a fast count huh Rainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CReW 0 #21 June 6, 2007 There are 2 kinds of jumpers, those that have experienced a bag lock and those that will experience a bag lock. The most common type of bag lock is the last or next to last stow simply does not come unstowed, this of course would hold the closing flap of the main bag shut. We would have pilot chute, bridle, main bag and lines all strung out. This type of bag lock pulls the jumper vertical actually increasing his freefall speed and providing a VERY bumpy, possibly even violent ride. You would not have to wonder if you were having a malfunction, you would KNOW in pretty short order. A look upward would confirm a bag lock or possibly be confused with a streamer but since the emergency procedures are the same for both it does not matter, The important thing is that you start emergency procedures immediately, you're dealing with a FAST malfunction. Usually a bag lock is neither the fault of the packer or the jumper but for some reason the last stow simply does not release. Surprisingly usually the locked stow pulls out quite easily on the ground. We can decrease the chances of bag lock by using only Mil Spec. Rubber Stow Bands (common. standard tan rubber bands) or we can increase our chances of bag lock by using Non Mil Spec. Rubber Bands like the red or black rubber bands, O ring type, tube stows or oddly shaped Stow Bands. One thing is for sure, no matter what kind of Stow Bands we use and even if we do everything right a bag lock is coming so it's good to be ready. Another less common type of bag lock would be if our first Stow Band on the main bag did not release. With this type of bag lock it is possible that we would be trailing or towing nothing. This would provide no break in decent and no change in body attitude. A look over our shoulder may not reveal what we're dealing with but we would recognize we are dealing with a FAST malfunction and know we must start emergency procedures immediately. I have never experienced or witnessed this type of bag lock in the field but would be interested in hearing from anyone who has. T Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #22 June 7, 2007 Quote As the baseball field to the north was growing larger and I was still in freefall, I executed SOS emergency procedures by pulling the reserve ripcord handle. Well, by stopping the skydive at least you responded correctly to the situation a lot faster than the online community can come to an agreement what the situation WAS... Rule number one: saving the reserve parachute for the hopefully rare occasion that you really, really need it ignores the fact that parachutes have a limited practical use, once you have landed... Quote The bag lock was confirmed from the observers on the ground Your judgment needs no justification for Quote I had no indication that anything at all had happened after pulling the ripcord You are indeed the only captain on that particular bridge... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #23 June 7, 2007 CReW, are you saying that tube stows or Silibands will cause a baglock over the Mil-spec/tan rubber bands? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #25 June 7, 2007 Quote There are 2 kinds of jumpers, those that have experienced a bag lock and those that will experience a bag lock. Your post is so full of shit that I am calling you on it. "Mil spec rubber stow bands"? What is the mil spec? Common. standard tan rubber bands? Wow! what a specification. Can you be ever so more vague? Where the hell can we buy these vague rubber stow bands? I call bullshit on your post. take care and wtf are you using a bag on crew jumps anyway? BS. take care, space reason for edit: Out of over 100,000 jumps witnessed, I saw one bag lock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
