Snapped both my Brake lines!

[Dangerousmind86 0]

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Ahhh, so by out of sequence, you mean you believe the canopy as inflating before you had line stretch? That is a definition of the term I am not terribly familiar with, I was envisioning something totally different, thanks for the clarification. It would seem to me that this type of opening would have been so violent, it would have given more than a sore neck, or you are just tough!

I will post an opening that I caught on video, it sounds like a freaking cannon went off! Kicked my helmet with my R foot, could barely breathe and definitely saw stars for a while, was in bed for days and did no jump for around a month. Will look for that vid…

That is so much what it felt like. All I could think was shit shit shit that hurt so freaking bad. Like a car accident was all I can compare it too

ANDY

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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I fly a sabre and i have found out with mine that if the nose isn't rolled and tuck way back in it opens very hard, its a charactersitic of the canopy.

Yes and no. Yes, you should roll the nose on an original Sabre when packing, but over-tucking way back can cause problems too. Yes, a Sabre can open hard, I've experienced it. No, I wouldn't say its a characteristic of the canopy... other canopies open hard too... its been "over hyped" as a hard opening canopy by folks either with only a few years in the sport, folks pushing other canopy designs, or both.

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I have never flown a sabre 2 but I would assume it would be about the same!

That would be poor assumption.

I made the mistake of rolling the nose on a Sabre 2 and jumping it once; spun into a bunch of line twists & almost got rid of it.

The Sabre 2 has a different airfoil then the original-Sabre and is a tapered design too.

[my 2 cents... others will differ]
Pack a Sabre 2 basically like a Stilletto, is what I tell folks... don't roll the nose... just set the nose in the middle and not tucked way back... quarter the slider & make sure the fwd quarter of the slider is "in front of" the nose.
[/my 2 cents]

[AFFI 0]

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Quote

I fly a sabre and i have found out with mine that if the nose isn't rolled and tuck way back in it opens very hard, its a charactersitic of the canopy.

Yes and no. Yes, you should roll the nose on an original Sabre when packing, but over-tucking way back can cause problems too. Yes, a Sabre can open hard, I've experienced it. No, I wouldn't say its a characteristic of the canopy... other canopies open hard too... its been "over hyped" as a hard opening canopy by folks either with only a few years in the sport, folks pushing other canopy designs, or both.

Hardest opening I have ever had is on a Stil150. Have around 700 jumps on Sab1, that canopy opened quite briskly, often times to the point it hurt. Had a pocket sewn into the slider that fixed it. An oversized slider would have done the same thing, it is the slider that controls the rate at which the canopy inflates.

All this stuff about rolling noses is mumbo jumbo (Bills term).

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[hookitt 0]

Bag Strip: Bag is pulled off the canopy before line stretch.

Line dump: Suspension lines fall out of the stows prior to line stretch.

Bag strip can only happen if all the lines in the locking stows fall out. <== this doesn't just happen.


Locking stows: Necessary to keep the bag shut until line stretch.

All the other stows do not have a noticeable affect on opening speed. They are used to keep the lines tidy and also used to get the lines away from the jumper. If the locking stows stay secure until line stretch, all the other stows don’t matter and the stows have done their job.


When the bridle yanks on the deployment bag, the canopy wants to stay put. The canopy then pushes on the d-bags closing flap and essentially tightens the locking stows. If these rubber bands are broken, the likely cause is from the lines being pulled from them under the added tension. Double stowed lines break more often on either the locking or other stows.

Losing control of the slider at some point in the pack job is the most likely cause of a very fast opening. During the S-fold it's important to pay attention to the slider. Then putting it in the bag is the last time you can be sure the slider is all the way to the top. If the canopy is stuffed in REAL sloppy, that will potentially be the cause of allowing the slider to move part way down.

If air is allowed to hit the bottom skin before the slider does the job it was intended for, the canopy will expand rapidly. Poof... hard opening.

Review:

Line dump is the most over used answer for bad openings. The only stows that count as far as openings go is the locking stows. The rest are to move the lines away from the jumper and closing flaps.

Lines don’t easily fall out of locking stows because even i the locking stows are loose, the canopy pushes on the bags closing flap, tightening the rubber bands.

Hope that helps.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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Hardest opening I have ever had is on a Stil150. Have around 700 jumps on Sab1, that canopy opened quite briskly, often times to the point it hurt. Had a pocket sewn into the slider that fixed it. An oversized slider would have done the same thing, it is the slider that controls the rate at which the canopy inflates.

Well, of course you have to have the correct sized slider on ANY canopy.



IMO... I never bought into the whole pocket slider or sail slider "thing" on Sabres. Always made me think, "Why don't you just get (or make) a bigger slider?"




I'm also convinced that if you took a Katania, jumped in the Way-Back machine, went back 10 or 20 years and let then experienced folks jump it... they'd describe the openings as, "A streamer that eventually cleared."

A lot of this is all relative... and this is thread drift... doh!

[eted71 0]

Andy,

I saw your rig the next day when I was in. Ouchy!

Glad you're OK. I know your pain .

Ted

[Dangerousmind86 0]

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Andy,

I saw your rig the next day when I was in. Ouchy!

Glad you're OK. I know your pain .

Ted

Ya it sucked and the pain was similiar I assume lol!

But any how, I jumped the canopy this last thursday and I packed it with a rolled nose and quartered slider. I also pulled the slider out in front of the nose. I double wrapped my bands and it opened just fine. I'm feeling much better about my packing quality now

ANDY

[sundevil777 93]

Were the middle locking stows broken after the hard opening?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Dangerousmind86 0]

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Were the middle locking stows broken after the hard opening?

No they are still in intact.

ANDY

[Kynan1 0]

Join the club. I busted the right brake line on my Sabre 2 190 @254 jumps, then the left brake line @280 jumps. I'm not sure what caused it, but I cut them both away...ahah If it happens again, I'm landing it.

[gearless_chris 1]

I did the same thing with my 170 Nitron. Brike my right then the left about 40 jumps later, landed them both. should've had the left replaced same time as the right. ooops

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[Rdutch 0]

Line twists can also cause a hard opening, think about if your line is twisted near the top of your lines, it can keep the slider from catching air due to the line twists holding the grommets together.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[Mozencrath 0]

I am surprised no one has caught onto the fact that the lineset had 500-600 jumps on it.....An out-of-trim line set will cause linetwists, hard openings, slow turns, etc......

I also don't understand why he only replaced the brake lines?

[Broke 0]

Regarding Sabre 2's and packing. Last year I was talking with the PD rep at my local DZ, and he said not to roll the nose, or do any of the other things that people say to get it to open softer. Just pro pack the bitch. The PD rep also suggested double stowing all the bands including the locking stows

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[sundevil777 93]

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The PD rep also suggested double stowing all the bands including the locking stows

To suggest double stowing all bands without knowing how tight they are when normally stowed is incredibly stupid, in my opinion. That advise would have many people installing longer bands, just so that they can double stow.

Also, double stowing the locking stows will put even more stress on them. You really don't want the locking stows to break before line stretch.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Broke 0]

You want to bring it up with the PD rep be my guest. One of the reason he justified double stowing the locking stows is because according to him the D-bag's shape changes as you pull, and it helps to reduce the wear on your lines from the gromit. As long as you are using rubber bands the bands will break before you would have any problems

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[pilotdave 0]

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That advise would have many people installing longer bands, just so that they can double stow.

That's exactly the advice I got from a PD rep. Big bands, double stowed. That was last year's advice anyway... seems to change every other week.

Dave

[Hooknswoop 19]

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As long as you are using rubber bands the bands will break before you would have any problems

My one bag lock, on a tandem, was caused when normal, large (non-tandem) rubber bands didn't break and were double wrapped.

Derek

[Hooknswoop 19]

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IMO... I never bought into the whole pocket slider or sail slider "thing" on Sabres. Always made me think, "Why don't you just get (or make) a bigger slider?"

Because a larger slider 'catches' more air, but allows the canopy to open more and reefs the canopy less. A smaller slider reefs the canopy more, but has smaller surface area to 'catch' air. A too large slider will cause hard openings and a too small slider will cause hard openings. It is a balance between reefing and surface area.

A pocked allows the a slider to catch more air without sacrificing the reefing of the lines.

I have had much success with pockets.

Derek

[Broke 0]

I wonder if we could compile statistics regarding baglock and their contributing factors.
If we could record weather rubber bands were use, or tube stows were used. As well as single vs double wrapped for each stow.
That might make an interesting article.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[thepaintballguy 0]

That would not have been a fun tandem to be on! LOL

I was jumping a PD 210 last weekend and it was REALLY hard on the openings! I didn't pack it as I am still a student and don't know how but my last jump I did opened really hard and i was feeling it for a day afterwords! That was just a bad jump all together though. During that same jump I almost chopped it because of another mal. that happened later on.

Josh

Q: Why would someone ever want to jump from a perfectly good airplane?

A: Why Not?

[AFFI 0]

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During that same jump I almost chopped it because of another mal. that happened later on.

What was that?

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[bch7773 0]

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Yes I was tracking a bit and I know that didn't help.

is it possible you didn't slow down enough before you pulled? its a fairly common problem with low-experience jumpers.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Dangerousmind86 0]

Ya, its possible that I didn't slow down enough before I pulled but This was much harder of an opening then I've ever felt. I know I'm a newbie but this was a ridiculously hard opening.

ANDY