kefran 0 #1 July 25, 2007 Saturday, July 22 i boarded the first load of the day for a 2 way freefly, weather was excellent everybody was smiling by thinking of the great day to come. we exited at 13600 and i had my best freefly jump to date, docks, transitions, spock ... really smooth at 5000 we breaked off and go for a nice sweet track. at 3600 i pulled and have an opening a little bit harder than usual but nothing serious. suddenly my Hurricane rushed to the ground in a vertical spin turning on the left, i tried to correct it with my right back riser, nothing happened and the speed was increasing. i was analysing what was wrong ... all i saw was that the right side of the chute was looking wierd and finally at 1800 i cut it ... protrack says that i was safe under my reserve chute at 1600 ... what a feeling ! in the urge i've lost the cutaway handle, i was sure that i would need to pull it the stronger i can ... when i saw it go away i thought F*** !!! i got back my free bag and chute around 1 hour later. then we looked at the main and finally found the malfunction : the right toggle had released the right break line DOH !!!! anyway i don't have any regrets to take this decision, at the moment i was spinning i didn't see this and the ground was coming really fast so ... beer was excellent at the end of the day ! and my rigger loved his Jack Daniel's bottle thanks again Stef, your reserve packing was amazingly quick and soft ! cheers PS : my main is a hurricane 150 loaded at 1.4-------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rave4funn 0 #2 July 25, 2007 Congratulations. At least your rigger drinks Jack Daniels. I owe mine a bottle of Crown Royal.--------------------------------------------------- http://www.myspace.com/rave4funn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #3 July 25, 2007 Quote the right toggle had released the right break line DOH !!!! anyway i don't have any regrets to take this decision, at the moment i was spinning i didn't see this and the ground was coming really fast so ... I am amazed how often skydivers, well past the acquisition of the “A” license experience a premature brake release and do not know how to handle the situation. This is a testament that skydivers discontinue training after they get off student status. Honestly, when I had low jump numbers (zero to a few hundred) I did not know how to handle this situation either. It was really the experienced mentors that I finally started listening to that had a major influence on me to take training more seriously. The sole reason a skydiver does not know how to handle a situation as rudimentary as a premature brake release is a lack of interest in their own survival in this sport. Hopefully these types of experiences will encourage sport jumpers who make errors based in fundamentals to reevaluate their dedication to training.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g2gjump 0 #4 July 25, 2007 I know you have way more experience in the sport then I do. But he said he looked up and seen the canopy diving and the right side looked funky. Checked his altimeter 1800 I believe that is the hard deck for USPA. What do you? Mess with the canopy more and continue until its to low? I admire his choice and glad to see he is alright. I also admire your advice too. But your answer sounded kind of sharp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #5 July 25, 2007 Quotehe said he looked up and seen the canopy diving and the right side looked funky. Checked his altimeter 1800 I believe that is the hard deck for USPA. No, that is not exactly what was said in context. More accurately: Quoteat 3600 i pulled and have an opening a little bit harder than usual but nothing serious. suddenly my Hurricane rushed to the ground in a vertical spin turning on the left, i tried to correct it with my right back riser, nothing happened and the speed was increasing. i was analysing what was wrong ... all i saw was that the right side of the chute was looking wierd and finally at 1800 i cut it FUNDAMENTALS... What every skydiver should know...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pre7117 0 #6 July 25, 2007 I dont see anything wrong with if someone feels that they need to use a reserve. It didnt feel right and they cut it away.HELLFISH 429 POPS 11113 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kefran 0 #7 July 25, 2007 obviously you're way more experienced than me. ANYWAY whatever YOUR high experience is, where you under MY canopy spinning right to the ground ? just to be more precise : the right toggle never left its place on the back riser only the upper part was out. so when i was looking at them the 2 toggles were looking exactly the same ... and if i was in the same situation again, i probably will do exactly the same which is called : stay alive to be part of the next load and finally get back home to give a bg hug to my son and wife ... everybody got the right to make his own choices no ?-------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g2gjump 0 #8 July 25, 2007 QuoteThis is a testament that skydivers discontinue training after they get off student status. I'm sure he is speaking on everyone's behalf here. just remember he doesn't know you. or me. Congrats on saving your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #9 July 25, 2007 Kefran, I didn't read the posts as AFFI bashing you in any way (YMMV though...). Often, the written word can misinterpreted without the subtle body language that goes with the spoken word. I took his comments as a general statement to/about EVERYBODY that continued training and experience impacts the decisions we make... There's an old saying in skydiving... 'When in doubt, whip it out'. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone bitching you out for selecting "Plan B" (chopping when a repack is the only exception I can think of), as we all know that the only person to paying the price for that decision is said jumper. I have however, seen jumpers promptly get their asses chewed for NOT chopping when they should have (and for a variety of reasons...) IMHO, you did good! You were aware of your altitude, recognized a problem existed, recognized you didn't know what the problem was at the time (Monday morning QB'ing doesn't apply) and respected your hard deck. Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigSky 2 #10 July 25, 2007 Good job on saving yourself before your hard deck. But I think what AFFI is saying is if you would have done a basic controllability check (which should be standard procedure) you would not have had to save yourself.“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #11 July 25, 2007 Quote where you under MY canopy spinning right to the ground ? Yes, I have been in that exact same scenario, more than once, and so have students I have trained. Quote to be more precise : the right toggle never left its place on the back riser only the upper part was out. so when i was looking at them the 2 toggles were looking exactly the same Correct, this is what a premature brake release LOOKS like. Quote and if i was in the same situation again, i probably will do exactly the same That is unfortunate, that means that you are potentially unwilling to further your education as to how to properly deal with situations that can and will arise while skydiving. I would implore you to reconsider, and become willing to further you training and education. Glitch is correct, I was not bashing the decisions or actions you decided to make but rather making an observation about the skydiving community that I have been exposed to. Furthermore, Glitch is correct that the written word is impersonal and can easily be misinterpreted. I apologize if I came across as being critical or condescending, that is not my intention… In the scenario you were presented with and the actions you decided to take, you were correct in what you did. This is what the education and training you have acquired thus far has taught you to do. I am informing you that there is much more education available for you to learn how to deal with various situations that you have yet to acquire, that is why it is important to continue to train after acquisition of the “A” license. This is a notion that I routinely suggest to other skydivers regardless of their jump numbers and I always offer to share my knowledge with other skydivers (off student status). If you wish, I have some very good training tutorials on dealing with malfunctions I am always willing to share with others that may further their understanding of the fundamentals of dealing with such issues. Just PM me if you are eager to learn more.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #12 July 25, 2007 I agree. We see this type of stuff more and more, chops due to spinning canopies/linetwists, esp with low jump numbers and a hp/smallish canopy. Of course you should whip out your reserve if the canopy isn't going to land you ok, but maybe you shouldn't be jumping a canopy like that in the first place if a simple brake fire leads to a chop. A brake fire on a hp canopy is a different deal than on say a nice biggish spectre, you need to be able to deal with stuff like that BEFORE jumping a hp canopy and BEFORE jumping at that wingloading. My opinion, anyway. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #13 July 26, 2007 I'm not sure about other schools, but we teach that in our FJC. When showing them the parachute, I point out how the toggles are stowed, and point out during the malfunction section that a turn could be an unstowed brakes, and that they should unstow both brakes and flare and see if it fixes it.. To me it happens often enough it should be mentioned with the slow speed mals in the FJC.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #14 July 26, 2007 I just think its a shame you took AFFI's good advice as a flaming and got on the defensive.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kefran 0 #15 July 26, 2007 AFFI, please accept my apologize, i took your words as somewhere quite condescending, as Glitch said written messages lack all the body language that come with. be sure that next time that this kind of situation happens i will recognize it ... and please take account that english isn't my first language neither so your first message looks to me quite harsh when i was just happy (and even recognizing that i could have done better than that ..) no offense taken and please take note that first beer will be for me if we ever meet together somewhere ! take note to that my mojo is : there's always something to learn ... cheers ! Kefran-------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #16 July 26, 2007 No worries, sorry I came across as harsh, did not mean to... congrats on your first reserve ride - rush eh?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kefran 0 #17 July 26, 2007 Quote - rush eh? yep -------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OSOK 0 #18 July 26, 2007 Ok, I just wanna ask something that I'm surprised no one has caught yet. You said it was spinning to the left, yet the right brake was released? ???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #19 July 26, 2007 Quote You said it was spinning to the left, yet the right brake was released? Think about it a bit more . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VideoFly 0 #20 July 26, 2007 With a couple of hundred jumps, I chopped my first main while in a steep spin on a rig I was trying out for the first time. I knew I released both toggles and could not explain why the canopy was spinning and at 2,200 feet, I knew I couldn’t land it. When my son found the main across the DZ, he called me over and showed me the risers. One brake was released and one was still stowed. I felt so stupid, but I was alive. The next time I had a toggle come unstowed on opening and began to spin, I simply reached up and unstowed the remaining toggle. The spin stopped and the canopy leveled out. I guess I learned a good lesson after my first cutaway, but I suppose that learning the same lesson through continued instruction might have been better. Either way, congratulations on your cutaway. I am glad you are safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #21 July 26, 2007 Quote Glitch is correct, ... ...Furthermore, Glitch is correct... Damn, I guess I owe beer or something. According to my wife, I'm never 'correct'. I'm glad there's a written record of it 'cause now I have PROOF! Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kefran 0 #22 July 26, 2007 Quote ... According to my wife, I'm never 'correct'. ... are we married to the very same person ??? -------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #23 July 26, 2007 No, but I'm pretty sure they read the same manual on how to control and manipulate... Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #24 July 27, 2007 Quote No, but I'm pretty sure they read the same manual on how to control and manipulate... girls prolly get them handouted at cooking classes or sumthin'..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
