Would you be able to help?

[jtval 0]

So, I always wondered if I got fucked up at the DZ who would be able to help.

I'm practically always out there so its a good thing for other people. I'm not an EMT but I am trained in buddy care/rescue breathing. I constantly review odd situations and ask myself "what would you do if...."
I am glad to say tha to only had to act once, and that I didnt have to do any rescue breathing.

But, I think many people would be forced to sit and watch me die if I had some sort of life threatening injury. Bleeding/heart stoppage/stopped breathing etc.

What would you do if you found yourself the first responder to an incident?

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[wildcard451 0]

Work them until help arrived. Then, depending on the help, continue to work them to the hospital if need be.

It's a shitty situation to be in and I hope I don't have to do it anymore at the DZ

[dragon2 0]

I'm sorry to say that I still haven't gotten any training in first aid etc... Aside from some stuff I learned about horse riders years ago. I've been first on the scene after a very serious low turn, had no clue what to do other than not touch him, we had a practicing physician at the airport who didn't dare touch him either so that was a good call, I suppose. Then a guy with a dislocated shoulder, not much trouble there (well not for me). A few other landing accidents where others were present too. Saturday with the broken leg, not so much action was required of me as there were 4 people at the scene of which at least one knew what she was doing or at least looked like she was.... Although I did try and help a choking bus driver that day also not hindered by much knowledge

Note to self: acquire that knowledge.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dmetz 0]

I selected "trained but not certified".

I carried a Red Cross CPR card for several years, so thats annual training. I was in the military for several years, so that's a whole lot of basic first aid training with refresher training ~quarterly. I also had some pretty basic "advanced" training in the military.

However...I've never really had to utilize any of it; other than cuts and scrapes type of stuff, mostly my own. And I don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about different scenarios. So I only hope that when and if the time comes where I'm a first responder, I am able to reflect on my training and make the right decisions. I think/hope that with a little familiarization with the concepts, actions become somewhat common sense and instinct.

_________________________________________

"If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?"

[mr2mk1g 10]

I voted I'm trained but not certified.

I have done a number of first aid courses over the past few years. I would be certified as a qualified first aider if I bothered to get the appropriate certificate. I have not done so.

Oddly enough, being a certified first aider would expose me to more legal liability than being just a pleb. I would be held to the standard of the reasonable first aider rather than the reasonable fool on the street.

I'm be happy to give first aid to anyone who needs it and have done so in the past, (though thankfully I've not needed to on a DZ as yet). If I was involved in a DZ emergency I would know the basics and would be capable of applying them, but that is all.

[iluvtofly 0]

I selected other mainly because I'm in the middle of taking an EMT class. Assuming all goes well and I pass my state exam I should be an EMT by mid January.

[popsjumper 2]

I'm seeing two different scenarios and my response would be different for each.

1. Obviously badly injured or worse:
If you have no training, stay the fuck out of the way. Don't even go out there. You'll only get in the way or do something stupid to make things worse.

2. Injured but doubted seriousness:
Go. See if there's anything you can do that's within your abilities to assist. If not...leave and get the fuck out of the way of those that can help.

At Dublin, an obviously badly injured or worse situation, it really, really pissed me off to see 100 people rushing out to Bob and Danny and then crowding around doing nothing but getting in the way of the medically trained. Even after the cops and the medics arrived they had to physically push people back and away....fucking gawkers.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peregrinerose 0]

I agree with that, especially about Dublin. Two of us have basic 1st aid training and were 20 ft from where they landed... we ran over to help, it was obvious they were both well beyond our training level, so we turned and walked away. We really tried to get some of the gawkers that rushed out to clear the area too as we were on our way back, but we could only do so much.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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If you have no training, stay the fuck out of the way.

See if there's anything you can do that's within your abilities to assist. If not...leave and get the fuck out of the way of those that can help.

Couldn't agree more. I don't have any training and therefore do NOT run out there... the only help I can personally provide is to call 911. I know everyone wants to help, but I don't understand why 50 people feel the need to run out when there's nothing they can do. The most knowledgable 1 or 2 people on the airport (and maybe a couple more to run for supplies or whatever) is plenty. Once the ambulence is there, you need 1 knowlegable person (if available) to quickly brief them, and everyone else needs to LEAVE.

That said, I'll be taking a CPR course very soon, and begin EMT training in January, so in the future I may be able to provide some basic help.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[jtval 0]

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I'm seeing two different scenarios and my response would be different for each.

Well, That's good that you are smart enough to know the difference.

I agree, there are certain scenarios that may exceed our training.
In that case, all you can do is Triage and get help.

For those that don't understand- Triage just mean to put the injuires in order of importance (usually meant for multiple victims) In this case its means to assess the injuries so you can pass the info to medical personal.

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[billvon 2,435]

>What would you do if you found yourself the first responder to an incident?

99% of the time - no intervention. The biggest thing I've learned over the years is what NOT to do, and the times that you should not take action greatly outweigh the times you should take action. The second biggest thing are the signs and symptoms of head injury and shock, which is important in terms of not letting someone drive themselves to the hospital.

Most of the time being a first responder involves sitting with the guy until the ambulance gets there (or until he can get up, if it's minor.)

I've had to do CPR twice; both times the guy didn't make it - and it was pretty clear that he wouldn't. I hope I don't have to do it again.

[grimmie 177]

There are many things an untrained person can do to help a trained person at an emergency scene. Here is a list of a few things to do to help. I am posting this because a few years ago two jumpers with zero medical training helped save their teamate's life by following directions and staying CALM!
Most times when someone fraps there is only one or two people with first aid training at the DZ (Murphy's law). To get a badly injured person out of the situation and in to an ambulance takes coordination. so remember, if you want to help...
1. STAY CALM
2. FOLLOW DIRECTIONS
3. Don't say you are trained if you are NOT

A few other things to think of.
A Basic First Aid class will give you training to be very effective at the DZ, an EMT certification even better.

The most effective thing to do is coordinate with the local Fire/EMS provider and impliment a response system.

DZ operators need to use the skills of their jumpers. Most DZ's have EMT's, Paramedics, Doctors, Nurses, etc. that jump there.

If any of you have any questions or need help with your DZ emergency plan please pm me.

[bozo 0]

[replyI've had to do CPR twice; both times the guy didn't make it - and it was pretty clear that he wouldn't. I hope I don't have to do it again.

[hackish 8]

I think St. John Ambulance emergency first aid (or whatever your local variant is) is something that all DZ's should encourage their members to participate in. Here in Canada we're protected by the Good Samaritan act but in the US I do not believe there is any such protection. As a result I've heard some people choose not to get involved for fear of legal consequences.

-Michael

[Tink1717 2]

Firefighter/EMT, ex paramedic, 25 years with Baltimore County FD. What do you need?

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[airtwardo 6]

What would you do if you found yourself the first responder to an incident?

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Wallet & jewelry...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[tonka 2]

Hey,
It all depends on the situation.

A severely injured hook turn victim or someone who hits extremely hard would be very difficult to deal with. Many people think that they would be bleeding in obvious spots and all you need to do is go over and help stop the bleeding. The problem is these people have many internal injuries and should not be moved or touched. If responsive they should be calmed down and not allowed to move until professional medical personel arrive.

Clearing their airway if someone has a plastic airway is nice but anything else is too risky to the individual unless you are medically trained to help. Applying pressure to external injuries may stop someone from bleeding to death but most of the time injuries are internal.

I have been a first responder for a situation like that and there is not much to do. Another jumper and I landed nearby to help the badly injured jumper and hold him in place.(He was sliding down the side of a large ditch)
Many onlookers arrived and just wanted to watch which pisses me off so bad. Some of them jumped down and started trying to cut gear off the jumper and yank him up the hill which we immediatly told them to fuck off. The DZO arrived shortly and cut the gear off in places where it could still be inspected. (Onlookers were trying to cut lines making it unable to see how the main/reserve was entangled for the inspection and investigation)

Help arrived shortly and we were instructed to help the EMT's pull him up the hill. From there the medical professionals took over. We did the right thing by not moving or trying to help the individual because the EMT's took the same approach. They planted an airway and kept the person very still. I never saw any of them attempt to physiclly push or prod on the jumper because they knew that internal injuries could become worse if they did that.

The jumper who was a good friend of mine died several hours later. I wish I could have done more to help but did all I knew was right. He suffered severe internal bleeding in his chest probably due to a severed aorta on his heart. Im sure his lungs were punctured and he had broken ribs also. All those severe injuries and there was no easily visible external damage making it hard for any first responder to do anything.

When someone gets hurt but is conscoius and responsive. (Broken legs/back/pelvis/ribs) They should be kept still, camled down, and pressure applied to any severe bleeding. (Compound fractures)

I have been around for other incidents but never went over to see my friends busted up.
My outlook is if you are able to be their first then get your ass over there and keep things in control. If you can not be there first and there is already a large crowd at the scene dont go over and make things worse by crowding the scene unless you are professionaly trained to help.
No matter if you are there first or a ways away keep calm, call 911, and act professional. (Does a student really want to come back and continue juming after seeing a bunch of rambling angry screaming crying individuals?)
Let incidents be a lesson to the students by explaining what happened and why, what not to do, and that they should expect to see it happen again if they continue skydiving.

I have grown up on DZ's and have seen many incidents over the years. I just dont want people thinking that with only one year of jumping I have been around for several fatalities. About 18 years watching the sport from the ground and only a year actually jumping is why I have seen so many incidents.

[BikerBabe 0]

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I selected "trained but not certified".

I carried a Red Cross CPR card for several years, so thats annual training. I was in the military for several years, so that's a whole lot of basic first aid training with refresher training ~quarterly. I also had some pretty basic "advanced" training in the military.

However...I've never really had to utilize any of it; other than cuts and scrapes type of stuff, mostly my own. And I don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about different scenarios. So I only hope that when and if the time comes where I'm a first responder, I am able to reflect on my training and make the right decisions. I think/hope that with a little familiarization with the concepts, actions become somewhat common sense and instinct.

pretty much an identical experience here. I chose "trained but not certified"

I was also a lifeguard in high school...but that was a looooong time ago.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Zing 2]

First ghoul to the crater gets the best souvenirs.

Zing Lurks

[airtwardo 6]

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First ghoul to the crater gets the best souvenirs.

Fuckin' A Bubba!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[tonka 2]

Sad but true.

I got a chin cup that was donated by the deceased.
We used to joke about getting each others gear if it ever happened. My chincup sucked anyway...his is way better.

BSBD Bro!

[jtval 0]

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Here in Canada we're protected by the Good Samaritan act but in the US I do not believe there is any such protection.
-Michael

Common misconception. IF you are certified in the med field and do not help some one who is within your scope of expertise their family can sue you (if they can prove you were there and you just watched them die.

IF you are NOT certified and try to help and your fumbling around causes more injury or death someone can sue you as you had no right to be there.

on a side note, I can sue whom ever I want for any reason because there are too many lawyers, but the case is stronger with those scenarios.

The US DOES have the good sameritan law. that does not mean you HAVE TO HELP if you don't know how. just because someone stayed in a motel 8 (a funny commercail in the US) doesnt mean they can poke and prod at an injured person.

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Firefighter/EMT, ex paramedic, 25 years with Baltimore County FD. What do you need?

You got $500 I can have?

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[Tink1717 2]

Actually, if I'm in the state of Maryland, I am required by law to render all possible assistance. I can be prosecuted if I don't. The good Samaritan laws apply only if I don't charge for my services. Kind of sucks because I don't carry a jump kit and unless they need CPR,there isn't much I can do.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Auryn 0]

I chose other: Explain

All the things said here are great. In my experience, the person most trained to handle the situation took control of the situation very quickly and everyone stayed out of his way, but helped in other ways which haven't been mentioned here yet.

untrained person on phone w/ 911 relaying his assessment to get info out as fast as possible (me)

untrained person calling his wife and telling her where to meet her husband (manifest)

and several upjumpers formed a human shield of sorts to block the scene from the packing area and manifest (he hooked it in about 40 ft in front of everyone) this was to the benefit of tandems and their families as well as to the injured-protecting his privacy (if you've been at a major injury you know what I'm talking about)

there are things that can be done to help, but listen to who knows what they're doing and if you have no idea what to do, get the fuck out of the way. Better yet, take a walk to save yourself from having to see it.

Blue Skies,

Bryan Klindworth

[jtval 0]

Sweet so you can protect yourself by charging the victim/or his kin?

That's awfully nice of them to make that a law.

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