Bigwallmaster 0 #1 December 15, 2004 This is long overdue, but I need to get water training completed to qualify for my B license. What does this involve? Where do I go for this training? I jump at Perris and occasionally during the summer I see Jim Wallace offering a course in water training. Is there anyone else out there other than Jim doing this? Is there any courses during the winter months? Thanks, J.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBachelor 5 #2 December 15, 2004 I did my water training at Perris. I think it was done by Walt Mitchell. He just gave us a 10-minute briefing, and then each of us jumped into the pool, and he through a canopy over each of us. Mine was done in February. I remember that because someone watching said we should pass just because we jumped into that cold water... Ask some more people at Perris about who does it there. I'm sure it's done fairly frequently.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigwallmaster 0 #3 December 15, 2004 Perfect. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #4 December 15, 2004 I am a full time search and rescue diver at work. I have seen worse situations underwater in a moving river. I thought about asking for a sort of waiver from having to wait for someone to have a class. I have been at the dz a year and have never seen or heard about a class comming up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #5 December 15, 2004 QuoteI am a full time search and rescue diver at work. I have seen worse situations underwater in a moving river. I thought about asking for a sort of waiver from having to wait for someone to have a class. I have been at the dz a year and have never seen or heard about a class comming up. Not gonna happen. There is more to water training than just jumping in a pool and having an old parachute thrown over your head. There is a review of procedures that you should follow before you hit the water. Should you cut away or not, if so at what height? What should you do with your chest strap before you hit the water? What about your helmet, keep it on or take it off before landing? Just because you’ve done search and rescue does not mean you done it with a parachute strapped to your back. Water training is worth an hour of your time."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #6 December 16, 2004 Loosten chest strap do not cut away until your feet hit the water cuz you may be higher than you think ect., ect. I agree that nothing replaces the real thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #7 December 16, 2004 Quote Loosten chest strap do not cut away until your feet hit the water cuz you may be higher than you think ect., ect. I agree that nothing replaces the real thing. Quote ..And to me anyway, jumping into a pool and having a parachute thrown at me is no where near~ "The real thing!" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #8 December 16, 2004 I never said the water training was not the real thing. I said I have worse water experience and that it is hard to find a class close. I am going to wait it out and go through it, just to say I did it for B licence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropzonefool 0 #9 December 16, 2004 Find a heated pool, maybe at a spa, or a health club in your area. Contact any Instructor you may know, ask if he will meet you. Contact the owner of the pool and see if he will let you guys in 10 minutes before closing. The book stuff, and the test can be administered before at your house, or in your car. Your going to have to round up an old canopy and old harness, and you should jump in with clothes/ or a jumpsuit. So bring a change of clothes. There is an outline in the sims of how the water training should be conducted. You might be able to extrapolate from there. I did mine in a seaplane water way. Cold, dark, and murky. It was fun[ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #10 December 16, 2004 Quote I never said the water training was not the real thing. I said I have worse water experience and that it is hard to find a class close. I am going to wait it out and go through it, just to say I did it for B licence. Quote No....I know, It was meant to be a broad statement, not one directed at you. You..being familiar with water rescue know better than most....the closer you can get to an actual situation, the better the training is. Nothing against 'Wally' either...or any of the others that use similar training methods.. I know logistics and geographic location can be a hindrance to 'proper' water training. But I also believe that if you jump in an area that a water landing is a possibility... You could be 'under prepared' with the swimming pool method. I'm comfortable in the water... SCUBA 'night-wreck-salvage -cave' and when I did my first water jump- (back then it was a requirement for the D license) -it was nothing like what I had expected... A middle of the lake landing, with a boat assisted recovery after five minutes. We had a safety diver in the water..in case. But it was still an en lighting and puckering experience. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #11 December 16, 2004 I did mine at Perris with Jim Wallace. He can usually do it same day, but it would probably help to give him some advanced warning. He charges $50 for the training with pool session or $20 each if you can get a friend or two to join you in the training. He has a spare harness and canopy at the ready and Perris has a pool. I liked the training with Jim, he's been on a lot of water jumps and had a lot of stories to tell first hand not just about procedures but general non obvious stuff that has gotten people killed on water jumps. His advice on the practicalities of various buoyancy devices & jump conditions was great and his approach is refreshingly pragmatic, born form hard earned experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,478 #12 December 16, 2004 As a side note, a real water jump (under controlled conditions) can be invaluable experience. I made my first water landing at Bridge Day 93, and I've made perhaps 5 since then (all BASE jumps.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #13 December 16, 2004 QuoteLoosten chest strap do not cut away until your feet hit the water cuz you may be higher than you think ect., ect. I agree that nothing replaces the real thing. I would say this is why the classroom portion will be extremely valuable. A first jump course covers the basics of water landings, but what about when you are going to land in a river? (When you are qualified for your B license) You have enough jumps that maybe you want to completely undo your chest strap and loosen your legstraps once in the water (not before) and just swim out, if you do this you should kick off your shoes, but why? No particular method is the "correct" one, but all of them can add to your toolbox, so you can pull out whatever needed when the time arises. The fact that you have prior water training means that whatever option you choose, you'll probably do it very well, but the most important part of the training is learning what option to choose. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #14 December 16, 2004 Water jumps are pretty neat especially in the high summer when the humidity is obnoxious. Night water jumps are especially cool. My only advice, short of a thorough briefing, is to not lift your legs too high as you're coming in for a "water"ing. Or else the first thing that hits will be your 'nads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #15 December 16, 2004 Quote(When you are qualified for your B license) You have enough jumps that maybe you want to completely undo your chest strap and loosen your legstraps once in the water (not before) Why wouldn't you want to completely undue your cheststrap BEFORE entering the water? Actually, instead this is precisely what you DO want to do! Check your SIM, but I'm pretty sure that undoing your cheststrap actually IS part of the (not "one of") method to use in a water landing situation.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #16 December 16, 2004 QuoteWhy wouldn't you want to completely undue your cheststrap BEFORE entering the water? Actually, instead this is precisely what you DO want to do! Check your SIM, but I'm pretty sure that undoing your cheststrap actually IS part of the (not "one of") method to use in a water landing situation. I was talking to a student; I'm certainly not going to go about providing differing advise than his instructor has. It is obvious the individual was taught one way and the SIM doesn't say "there is one way to react to something and this is the *only* way." His instructors have their reasonings for teaching how they do, it isn't anyones place here on DZ.com to correct them unless they are blatantly wrong, especially in the case of a student jumper. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #17 December 16, 2004 QuoteAs a side note, a real water jump (under controlled conditions) can be invaluable experience. I made my first water landing at Bridge Day 93, and I've made perhaps 5 since then (all BASE jumps.) I see that you're in Cali too. Does any DZ around here offer those type of controlled jumps. Is it specail gear. I mean you're not using your own are you. Just curious. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,478 #18 December 16, 2004 >Does any DZ around here offer those type of controlled jumps. Is it >specail gear. I mean you're not using your own are you. I don't know of any, outside landing in the lake at Otay (which happens accidentally with some regularity.) I'm sure if you talked to them you could arrange it. You will likely end up using your own gear - no one's going to rent you a rig you're going to take into the water. Recently we set up a few rigs for people to take to a water jump in the Caribbean somewhere. It was basically a hodgepodge of their old, worn out gear without a cypres. After five years or so, most jumpers start to accumulate old barely-jumpable gear; it's not too hard to assemble an old but airworthy rig for about $600 for such purposes. Old container. PD-210 main, round reserve or similar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #19 December 17, 2004 RSL. There has been some mention of cutting away your main. An added consideration is an RSL. If you cut away your main, only to have your reserve come out, you have not improved things. Disconnect the RSL first if you plan to chop it. Also, if you land in the water with your main, it is very different from just swimming in a lake. Your main is Zero Porosity. No air goes through it. If your head comes up under it, it will form around your head like a $1500 piece of plastic food wrap and suffocate you. Next, your lines. They will be draped around you in the water like a kelp forest and entangle you. It will not be free and easy swimming. Weight belts? There is a lot of considerations that I didn't mention. Water training is important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjames 2 #20 December 17, 2004 If you jump next to H20 you should have some training regarding water jumps/landings, whether you want the licence or not. Training, it's only required for the licence, but as bill and others will attest to, I tried for a year to get ten people together to do a live water jump, to no avail. Maybe it was the cost: advertised as $200, actual cost was around $125. Maybe just skeerd. They supplied everything. Besides, I got to do a low alt [800ft] round "T6 "something or other jump at a Z-hills area lake, with rubber duckies under each arm. Remind me next time to bring a dry change of cloths. Airborn rocks! Probably a good thing they would not let me do a land jump with the T6, I wudda needed a change of cloths for that also. "exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile" 'nother james Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #21 December 17, 2004 Quotewith rubber duckies under each arm. Quote Slightly off subject but worth a mention... If you're using an inflatable flotation device, I use an 'airline' vest under my jumpsuit.. Make sure your chest strap is undone, and your jumpsuit is unzipped... If the flotation device can't inflate "out" it will inflate "in" making it real hard to breathe. Edited to add~ For any Texas folks interested...I just got this. Water Training: 12-18-04 That’s right! Water training this Saturday evening in Steve Van Buren’s pool. I spoke with him last night and he said go ahead but it is going to be cold and it is not real clean. I will be moving Servers Saturday in Austin but should be arriving around 6:00pm. There will be a signup sheet at the outside window at manifest, please signup when you arrive so we will have an idea how many folks are attending. Please bring two towels as it is going to be cold water and cold when you get out. DO NOT GO INTO THE BUILDINGS TO SHOWER OFF UNTIL YOU HAVE DRIED OFF. If you do I will not sign you off and you will have to do the training again (Mom says). So you will need to have $10.00 cash, your two towels, bathing suit, logbook and ready to learn. The briefing will take about 15 – 20 minutes and then the actual water training takes about 4 minutes per person. I will sign your logbook after the training (if you did not track water into either of the buildings). Skydive San Marcos (512) 488-2214 ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #22 December 18, 2004 Water Training: 12-18-04 Maybe hypothermia training. I got cold just reading that.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RippedCord 0 #23 January 23, 2005 QuoteI did mine at Perris with Jim Wallace.... That's where I did mine. Clicky: http://www.jimwallace-skydiving.com/ AMDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #24 January 24, 2005 QuoteAs a side note, a real water jump (under controlled conditions) can be invaluable experience. I made my first water landing at Bridge Day 93, and I've made perhaps 5 since then (all BASE jumps.) Ditto. I actually found the official "USPA" water training not terribly valuable. But my informal water training (landing in relatively safe, deep water, with a boat nearby) on 50 or so BASE jumps has served me well on my 4 or so nasty water landings (3 in the ocean, 2 with a wingsuit on).-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjrod 0 #25 January 29, 2005 Do documented \ manifested static-line water jumps count? i have at least 20 water jumps following a zodiac. Thanks,,,<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
