what can i do? Skydive Suffolk VA.

[dsaint77 0]

Hi,

Ok lets get a few facts straight because this becomes S Suffolk sucks.

I have never said that, I said that it sucks there is no staff.

Ok, you are telling me to call ahead, ok we can do that.

Dicks travel in packs: Yes they do, I talk to people, I befriend people and I keep to myself. I really do not want to hear how XXX does his skydive or have him tell me how to do mine. XXX is not my instructor and I do not want to learn from anyone but an instructor. I do not vocal this but I still to myself, I talk to some students - oh my god you guys chastise the hell out of students trying to talk about skydiving all over these forums. and I generally try and help the staff out. If I am sitting there I might as well be helpful!

I patiently wait my turn, execute my dive (always safely, always "heads up" stay away from tandem rigs and give them the right away even if I have to land away from the peas so the tandem is priority. Generally and excellent skydive and great awareness. I have never been told I need to do something like be safe or look around) I am a general all around "good" student.

Skydive Suffolk is understaffed. They jump all year long, the plane, facilities, staff are all great. No issues. We just need more people there.

I spent a chunk of change that I had saved up for this. I do not have the money at this time to go anywhere else.

I could bring my own AFFI or Coach. Why should I get special treatment. If someone sees me jumping 5 times a day its going to make it look worse when the staff tells them "oh he brought his own instructor." The other students will feel bad.

For now I will just take what I get.

[wmw999 2,123]

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For now I will just take what I get.

But make appointments...

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[larrypen 0]

I do not know who you are if you will PM me because you do not want to use your name here I will make arrangements to be open any day of the week just for you to get you completed. If this does not work come see ME on the weekend I know the owner real well I think I can get us on a load. Sorry you had to wait so long.

Larry Pennington
Teach by the way you live
www.skydivesuffolk.com

[SimonBones 1]

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I know the owner real well I think I can get us on a load.

.....Wait, you mean to tell me that the solution was as simple as contacting the DZO? Man, I sure wish someone had suggested that at some point in this thread.

I'm sure it will all work out for you Mr. Dsaint. Good luck with your new reputation.

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[MIKADO 0]

I think that is a little messed up that just because he is a pain and puts it on the internet he gets his way when all the others have been waiting just as long if not longer. Why dont you find a solution for all the students instead of just one of them??????

[dsaint77 0]

Well, see, I don't have a reputation : )

Well, I guess I only have my own frustration to put up with then

Wendy P. This thread can be deleted, issue and problem solved.

Simple as talking to the owner, I talked to the manager, should have been good enough. I am not the only one, I am just the only one that said anything. Cant hate me for that.

[JohnDeere 0]

So you weren't making appointments? If that is the case then its your fault. They need to know how much staff to have there.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[iambeav2 0]

+1 many times over.

...it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you!

[NickDG 23]

I'm glad the OP got things worked out, but it brings up a larger issue (at least with me)

I've never been a fan of up-front bucks programs in any form of aviation training. These types of operations (skydiving, flight training, paragliding/hang gliding, etc) are just too weather, equipment, and instructor availability dependent to allow things to go as advertised.

Admittedly, with skydiving training, at a well established, well staffed, warm weather location it works somewhat better, but still not completely well. And for the same reason it doesn't work well in flight training.

Many flight school come-ons say "Get your private pilot's license in X hours for one low price!" The problem is most people take longer than X hours getting ready for the FAA check ride. And the fine print says you pay extra for those additional hours.

In skydiving people gulp down the sales brochure. "Our AFF course will have you skydiving in just seven jumps for one low price!" It may even say "levels" instead of "jumps". But pre-jump students just can't make an informed decision. And I run into more former students who say they wished they hadn't pre-paid than people who were satisfied with it.

In a way this deal is the closest we (all of us) get to being "Skyride" like and it's very accepted. A person may save the price of a student jump ticket if you don't repeat any levels, but how many do that? And if the DZO wears the Management/Instructor hat at the same time very few of them will. "Yeah, that last turn wasn't quite crisp enough, let's do that one over, it's for your own good, ya know."

So who speaks for students?

The FAA and Part 105 takes care of the safety side of things, but nobody pays much attention to making sure students are getting a square deal.

Some will say it's buyer beware and all that. And okay, that's fine down at Joe's used car lot, but for me, and I'm sure others, I see skydiving students differently. You see it here on these boards. "Where do I go for my first jump?" "How do I make my first jump?" "Is my Instructor telling me right?" Not to mention how many questions are asked that someone at their particular level shouldn't be confused about.

The worst thing I saw in my travels was the DZO using this innovative scam. He made a deal with a local loan company (I think he was related to the company president by marriage or something). And while the students were in class, or up in the air, in addition to typing up first jump certificates, he'd also be running credit checks and typing up loan papers.

And as soon as a first jump student touched down, before they could even catch their breath, they were presented with the "deal".

"Hey, we'll finance all the rest of your student jumps plus brand new gear! All you gotta do is sign right here!"

The interest rate was high and the gear, while safe enough, was an off brand with little to no re-sale value. But aside from that you can see the problem here. A euphoric first jump student is being taken advantage of in a big way. Christ, hand them a beer, not a loan contract!

Sometimes I think it's time for some of us old timers, and there are more than few on this board that would be good at it, to hang out a shingle that says, "Skydiving Student Advocate".

Maybe it should be a new rating and sponsored by USPA (if we could get them out of bed with the DZOs). And they could provide a website called Straight Scoop for Students where vetted and rated advocates could answer student's questions directly.

Yeah, that's never going to happen. I'm just dreaming now . . .

NickD

[dsaint77 0]

Nickd,

While I understand what you are saying this is not the case. Skydive Suffolk is very good at being safe. I have without a doubt that if a student must repeat a jump it is because it was a bad jump or freefall where the learning objective was not achieved. The instructors and staff are very good at what they do. I do not feel they are there to "take" your money.

They are just understaffed. The website encourages appointments for tandems and Aff jump 1 but says nothing about appointments for coach jumps. When I get my license to coach I will coach. My plans is to help mentor students. It is my goal for skydiving.

I really am sorry that I opened my mouth before talking to the owner.

[skybytch 259]

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When I get my license to coach I will coach.

Good for you. But I hope you'll make a point of doing a whole lot of fun jumping in between coach jumps.

Because someone has a rating does not mean that every jump they do has to be with students. The best instructors I know do at least as many "fun" jumps as they do "work" jumps (and coaching/instructing, when done right, IS work, even if you refuse payment for it). The instructors I know that get burnt out on skydiving often haven't done a jump without a student in a long, long time.

It's called balance, and it's good for both the instructor and the students that instructor may work with. Sometimes that may mean that a student spends the entire day on the dz, only to make one jump. OTOH, hanging around the dz for hours on end is one of the best ways to learn about skydiving...

[NickDG 23]

>>I really am sorry that I opened my mouth before talking to the owner.
See, if you had spoken with your Skydiving Student Advocate first none of this would have happened!

No worries. Nothing I said was directed at the DZ in question.

Enjoy your time as a student. The beginning is the best part, the rest is just practice . . .

NickD

[swatu 0]

hi,
I'm billy and im an aff instructor at suffolk
yeah we've got staff problems mostly due to lack of staff.
Appointments haaa haaa!
People with appointments sit around till sunset a leave without jumping all the time.
It does seem like aff students are being treated like second class citizens lately.
I know of a couple of aff students that didn't get to jump after sitting around all day watching qualified aff instructor do tandem after tandem.
I'd be pissed. What about the aff student that finally gets to jump then has to wait an hour and a half to get debriefed, most times not knowing whether or not they passed because there instructor wasn't there when they landed
or couldn't take time to watch them land because they had to rush to meet a tandem.
What kind of instuctor has students that come up
to them an hour after their jump(as the instructors on his way to do yet another tandem)and ask "hey man I've got to leave is there anything about our jump that pops out at you? you can fill out my log book next time.
Why bother jumping with a student when you don't have time to give proper instuction.
Why bother jumping with an instructor that doesn't have time to give proper instruction.
You can't learn to skydive from em.
Seems to me that if you don't want to take the time to to do aff you shouldn't put your name in the aff column on the work board(just my opinion).
Why is it that jumpmasters would rather do tandems then aff?
Its money thats why!
Aff takes an hour and a half.
Tandem 20 minutes with almost no training.
Both pay the same.
You ask how can i have an appointment and still not jump?
Duhhh we're overbooked thats why.
When asked what could be done about the aff situation my answer is simple....
Don't offer the aff program at skydive suffolk.
Nobody wants to teach em anyways.
I've got more.
Sorry about your sorry state of affairs dsaint77 but larry is trying to get it all sorted out now so that the students that are enrolled now get better treatment.
Your post helped bring out some issues that have needed to be addressed for a while now so thanks and i'm sure the other students will appreciate you bringing to the situation to light.
Billy Bob

[NickDG 23]

>>Aff takes an hour and a half.
Tandem 20 minutes with almost no training.
Both pay the same.
You ask how can i have an appointment and still not jump?
Duhhh we're overbooked thats why.
When asked what could be done about the aff situation my answer is simple....
Don't offer the aff program at skydive suffolk.
Nobody wants to teach em anyways.
Skydiving, as we know it, is doomed . . .

NickD

[robskydiv 0]

Dude, you make me glad that I used the PayGO method and that it was StaticLine progression!

[robskydiv 0]

Kudos to Larry for stepping up!

[JohnMitchell 14]

A- I agree that skydiving should be a "pay as you go" proposition.

B- Shortage of skydiving instructors all over the world?
Hmm, I think we should be paid more.