CYPRES saved my life!

[shah269 0]

Yeah now I get it. Cool!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[matt002 0]

I dont think students should be told they even have an AAD or what it does until they qualify. I hear too many people say they have never and would never jump without an AAD, wrong sport if thats the case.

[dragon2 0]

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I dont think students should be told they even have an AAD or what it does until they qualify. I hear too many people say they have never and would never jump without an AAD, wrong sport if thats the case.

Yes they do, if only to tell them not to spiral below 2k (with a student type AAD or FXC).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[g3ninfinite 0]

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I dont think students should be told they even have an AAD or what it does until they qualify. I hear too many people say they have never and would never jump without an AAD, wrong sport if thats the case.

How does not wanting to jump without an AAD make it the wrong sport for someone? Thats ridiculous. Im sure in all your infinite wisdom you are able to see the future and know on precisely what jump you will be incapacitated.

[DSE 3]

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How does not wanting to jump without an AAD make it the wrong sport for someone? Thats ridiculous. Im sure in all your infinite wisdom you are able to see the future and know on precisely what jump you will be incapacitated.

It's a statement of concern when someone says they "won't jump without an AAD" because it *might* suggest they're relying on a device to save their life.
If you're incapacitated, an AAD still may not save your life, as demonstrated in past incidents. An AAD may also take your life, as demonstrated in past incidents.

[millertime24 8]

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I dont think students should be told they even have an AAD or what it does until they qualify. I hear too many people say they have never and would never jump without an AAD, wrong sport if thats the case.

How does not wanting to jump without an AAD make it the wrong sport for someone? Thats ridiculous. Im sure in all your infinite wisdom you are able to see the future and know on precisely what jump you will be incapacitated.

I think the line of logic here is that if someone REFUSES to jump without one then they are TOO reliant on technology and not good EP skill sets.

Personally I would LIKE to have an AAD, but until the cost comes down it wont happen unless someone gives me a flat out deal on one. I, personally can not justify spending that much money on something I may or may not need. Also, I think that like any other safety contraption once people get this they tend to be a bit more reckless than they normally would. Why? Because in the minds of some (mine included for some other things) they think IF something happenes then they will still be ok. I'm particullarly bad for this with sandrails that have 5-point safety restraints. This is only my theory though.

Muff #5048

[Rstanley0312 0]

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I dont think students should be told they even have an AAD or what it does until they qualify. I hear too many people say they have never and would never jump without an AAD, wrong sport if thats the case.

I get this logic and I would not have a problem jumping without mine BUT I am not going to ever do that. Why? because I have one for a reason and thats to use if ever needed. I don't plan on using it and hope to God I am never in a situation when I do need it but you never know. I have talked a to more than a few skydivers that have been involved in a collision and lost consciousness as a result. Again, you are right they are not to be depended on but I think several jumpers out there will make that statement but are very capable of juming without one.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[matt002 0]

There is a difference between jumper A not wanting to jump without an AAD but probably would if required, and jumper B who would never jump without one.
Jumper A understands the risk and makes a choice.
Jumper B is usually some one who has not seen and accepted that skydiving is risk sport that requires participants to be continually responsible for their own survival.
I believe it important students realise this from day one, telling them they may be saved if they do nothing sets them up to become like jumper B from above. Not good IMO.

[ghost47 18]

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There is a difference between jumper A not wanting to jump without an AAD but probably would if required, and jumper B who would never jump without one.
Jumper A understands the risk and makes a choice.
Jumper B is usually some one who has not seen and accepted that skydiving is risk sport that requires participants to be continually responsible for their own survival.

Why can't Jumper B be someone who understands the risk but have chosen to not take the risk of jumping without an AAD?

I recognize that skydiving can kill or maim me, because I might mess up, or, even if I don't, someone else might. Or, even if no one else does, skydiving can be chaotic, and maybe something renders me unconscious.

So, I choose not to jump without an AAD. I have never, ever thought to myself, meh, I don't have to track too far, 'cause if I run into my teammate and lose consciousness, my CYPRES will work. Or: tail? Who cares? If I get knocked out, the CYPRES will save my life.

CAN one become dependent on the CYPRES and have it affect one's own preparedness? Sure. But if someone won't jump without a CYPRES, does it mean that that MUST be the case? I wouldn't say that.

[awagnon 0]

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Why can't Jumper B be someone who understands the risk but have chosen to not take the risk of jumping without an AAD?

I agree. It's like riding a motorcycle with or without a helmet. I ride 10,000 to 15,000 miles a year, but won't even move the bike around a parking lot without a helmet on. That is a decision I've made and it probably saved my life in a motorcycle accident. Same with an AAD. I understand the risks of skydiving and riding a motorcycle, which are about the same. However, I will always do what is necessary to reduce the risk by what ever amount is possible. Does it make me take more risks? ( aka "risk homeostasis" ) I don't know. But it's a choice I've made. Deal with it.

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[tetra316 0]

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If I get knocked out, the CYPRES will save my life.

That right there tells me you do not understand the purpose of a cypress. Your statement is FALSE. It may save your life but there is NO guarantee it will fire or even fire in time. And it can still kill you as well.

[awagnon 0]

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If I get knocked out, the CYPRES will save my life.

That right there tells me you do not understand the purpose of a cypress. Your statement is FALSE. It may save your life but there is NO guarantee it will fire or even fire in time. And it can still kill you as well.

Re-read what he said. It looks to me like he's saying "I have never, ever thought to myself,.... If I get knocked out, the CYPRES will save my life."

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[DSE 3]

A motorcycle helmet is a passive device.
An AAD is an active device that could (and has) fail to function the way the user (mis)understands how it may function.

Understanding equipment is critical. Having a backup device is a wonderful thing, but it's important to be aware that all wonderful things have some not-so-wonderful aspects to them

[crustySCSA69 0]

The OP may not be around here anymore ... but my question to him is

Didn't they train you, if in an uncontrolled spin, go into a tight ball (think cannonball) and then arch like holy hell ??

and if not, why not ? what the fuck ?

SHAH269.... chime in here if you read this... but you are somewhat of newer student... are they not telling students that these days ??


I know this technique works because long ago, I used it on all 3 10 sec delays ... all 3 15s and all 3 20sec delays ... they let me continue because i was dumping stable at the correct altitude... even if I did just spend the previous 17 seconds spinning like a top..

[mjosparky 3]

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I know this technique works because long ago, I used it on all 3 10 sec delays ... all 3 15s and all 3 20sec delays ... they let me continue because i was dumping stable at the correct altitude... even if I did just spend the previous 17 seconds spinning like a top..

They don’t do 5 sec., 10 sec, or even 20 sec. delays anymore. By the time they are let go they already have 3 or 4 minutes of freefall with someone holding them stable. And then if they get in trouble their AAD will save their lives.

Like DSE was saying, most of the newer jumpers do not understand how their gear works and could care less. An AAD does not save your life or even open your reserve. All it is designed to do is cut the reserve closing loop if you are going too fast too low. Beyond that, no guarantees. Being unwilling to jump without an AAD is a personal choice. It is the reason for that choice that is often called in to question. Only the individual can answer that. But never kid yourself in to believing that the use of an AAD will prevent you from dying in this sport. More lives have been saved by the simple act of pulling the reserve handle than all the gismos ever invented.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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I have talked a to more than a few skydivers that have been involved in a collision and lost consciousness as a result.

I call bull shit!
In one short year you have talked to “more than a few”? Where in the hell do you jump? In 30 years of jumping all over the country and in a few foreign countries I seen it once and only heard about it a hand full of time. The one I did see shook it off and pull his reserve at about 1500 feet.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[rnicks 0]

A bit of a stretch wouldn't you say?? A few maybe, but I doubt most.

[hookitt 0]

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A bit of a stretch wouldn't you say?? A few maybe, but I doubt most.

Not much of a stretch really. Watch people cock their pilot chute and pull and pull and pull on it till you swear they'll pull the hackey off. Then without checking to see if it's cocked, they look at the window to see if the mark is there.

They know it needs to be cocked but haven't a clue how it actually works.

That's just one example.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[matt002 0]

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There is a difference between jumper A not wanting to jump without an AAD but probably would if required, and jumper B who would never jump without one.
Jumper A understands the risk and makes a choice.
Jumper B is usually some one who has not seen and accepted that skydiving is risk sport that requires participants to be continually responsible for their own survival.

Why can't Jumper B be someone who understands the risk but have chosen to not take the risk of jumping without an AAD?
.

Just an example, you and your 4way team go away to train for a week and half way through, for what ever reason you normal rig becomes unavailable, maybe lost the main after a chop. Your team mate offers you his spare rig only it has no AAD. Do you refuse to jump. Is that the end of your teams training camp, fly home early better luck next year? That is called device dependancy and that person is exactly 100% device dependant, no AAD no jump.
That is not making a choice, that is fear making the choice for the person.
Whats wrong with making a risk assessment of the type of jump you're planning on doing, look at the skill level of the other participants in that dive, is it well planned, dirt dived, creeped, can everyone on this dive track well? If the answer is no then perhaps you should not be on that jump regardless of whether or not you have and AAD. Im not against AADs I have one, I use it when I'm not swooping.
I trust my ability to asses risk and act in the correct way to save my life when required more that a device with no real intelligence.

[matt002 0]

I like to wear a seat belt when driving, but if it broke, I wouldn't stop and get a Taxi to come and pick me up.

[stratostar 5]

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In one short year you have talked to “more than a few”? Where in the hell do you jump?

Well I can only think of one person on that dz who was saved down in FL at a pops meet, there rest of those who are on or were on that dz had their head up their ass and are the walking dead. A couple of them have more then one cypres fires in one year and again it was not due to being knocked out, it was from head up ass.

These same ones are the ones who have no clue about their gear or how it works because throwing money at it will take care of it, that is what packers and riggers are for. Now most of those have move on and only show up for an ego stroke now & then.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[rnicks 0]

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A bit of a stretch wouldn't you say?? A few maybe, but I doubt most.

Not much of a stretch really. Watch people cock their pilot chute and pull and pull and pull on it till you swear they'll pull the hackey off. Then without checking to see if it's cocked, they look at the window to see if the mark is there.

They know it needs to be cocked but haven't a clue how it actually works.

That's just one example.

I think most would understand how a pilot chute works and if they didn't they would be wiling to learn. My point was more about the not caring remark. Just because one may not know something, doesn't mean they care less.

[Andy_Copland 0]

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A bit of a stretch wouldn't you say?? A few maybe, but I doubt most.

Not much of a stretch really. Watch people cock their pilot chute and pull and pull and pull on it till you swear they'll pull the hackey off. Then without checking to see if it's cocked, they look at the window to see if the mark is there.

They know it needs to be cocked but haven't a clue how it actually works.

That's just one example.

My pet peeve when someone comes up to me and says "my window isn't green" like the window is the be all of pilot chute cocking. Take the damn PC out and drag it through the air, did it inflate? Right.

Maybe drifting off topic a bit but every DZ i have been to student gear has non collapsible PC's. I watched one bloke start his AFF, graduate and go out to buy his own gear. He was really pleased with his new toy and packed it at home (after rigger inspection) but wanted me to go over the packjob with him as it was a Sabre and he knew the reputation.

As you can guess the PC wasn't at all cocked as the gear he jumped as a student simply didn't use it.

Anyone wanna debate pro's and cons of teaching students from scratch on the kind of gear they will likely use?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[riggerpaul 1]

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A bit of a stretch wouldn't you say?? A few maybe, but I doubt most.

Not much of a stretch really. Watch people cock their pilot chute and pull and pull and pull on it till you swear they'll pull the hackey off. Then without checking to see if it's cocked, they look at the window to see if the mark is there.

They know it needs to be cocked but haven't a clue how it actually works.

That's just one example.

I think most would understand how a pilot chute works and if they didn't they would be wiling to learn. My point was more about the not caring remark. Just because one may not know something, doesn't mean they care less.

I've got to go with hookitt on this one.

You'd be amazed at how many people are looking at damage and wear that scares the shit out of me. Then they calmly come by and ask if they should be concerned yet.

While material can be taught, it is difficult to ensure that it is retained.

You may very well be different, but I see plenty of what hookitt talks about.

[shah269 0]

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The OP may not be around here anymore ... but my question to him is

Didn't they train you, if in an uncontrolled spin, go into a tight ball (think cannonball) and then arch like holy hell ??

and if not, why not ? what the fuck ?

SHAH269.... chime in here if you read this... but you are somewhat of newer student... are they not telling students that these days ??

I don't recall this instruction.
But I'm actually a "good" belly to earth flier. If it wasn't for busted up older than dirt rig and it's worn out lines not allowing me to flare...I would have graduated top of my class.

For me flying was intuitive. Spin...well that means i have something off that is adding energy into the system. Pull in to take away that energy, then redeploy and if need be "counter" steer by turning your head away from the spin.

That is to say if i'm turning to the right..my right shoulder may be down thus look left to bring left shoulder out and help stabilization by arching big.

As a noob I would suggest students be taught flying as if it were a system. every action has a reaction and can be countered if need be. Also there needs to be way more canopy work. I'm glad I took Brians class but I'm not going to be 100% under the silk until I've done at least a few dozen high hop and pops and had several soft landings.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!