gearless_chris 1 #1 January 3, 2010 How many times have you witnessed a tandem canopy at full altitude because the student pulled right out the door? I've heard TM's say they don't give the student the option of pulling because they've had students pull right out of the door. I've never seen it myself, but I haven't been around that long either."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaylorC 0 #2 January 3, 2010 seen it once and i know of a couple instructors who have had it happen to them multiple which is why they dont give them access to the drogue release anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 January 3, 2010 I had it happen once early in my tandem's years ago. The program had us training like an AFF jump with multiple touches and things like that and the student had issues finding it on their first series of touches and they grabbed it and ended up dumping us at about 9k. Now I train differently and I'm yet to see an issue recently even with giving them access on every jump.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #4 January 3, 2010 it happened to me after catching (that's what I think happened) the drogue release when going to the door. Exit, stabilisation, drogue toss... and HOPPLA here's a canopy at around 11k ft... It was a LONG ride down. On the systems I use, passengers do not have a drogue release. That opening strengthened my opinion on : Pull the drogue once stable, and NOT pull the drogue to get stable.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dninness 4 #5 January 3, 2010 I saw two this past season, and if I remember correctly, it was the same TM and only, at the most, a couple weeks apart. He was not a happy camper by the time he got down...NIN D-19617, AFF-I '19 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #6 January 3, 2010 Quote How many times have you witnessed a tandem canopy at full altitude because the student pulled right out the door? It happened a couple times to me long, long ago, when I was less experienced and more worried about myself than the student. QuoteI've heard TM's say they don't give the student the option of pulling because they've had students pull right out of the door. If a TI is looking for an excuse to not do much training, that is a good one. To me it seems simple. Students do that because they are scared. Make your student confident and relaxed, and they won't be scared and do something like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 January 3, 2010 Quote Quote I've heard TM's say they don't give the student the option of pulling because they've had students pull right out of the door. If a TI is looking for an excuse to not do much training, that is a good one. To me it seems simple. Students do that because they are scared. Make your student confident and relaxed, and they won't be scared and do something like that. Bingo. I've given 6000 students the option, and never had one pull out the door. A couple a little high, say 7,000 feet or so...---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #8 January 3, 2010 I've seen a dozen or so, most of the time it's just after the drouge toss, when the TI taps the student on the shoulders indicating they are free to release their grip on the harness. I guess they think it's the pull signal, or they just get spooked and go for the handle. It is a concern, especailly in the colder weather. You may plan on being out in the elements for 6 or 7 mintues, then with a light student, and cold dense air, you're under canopy for 15 or 20 minutes. Not letting them pull is one solution, but a better one is to go right from the shoulder tap to a handle block. Just cover it for a second, just to be sure they're not going to make a play for it. If they don't do it right out of the box, there's a pretty good chance they're not going to until they're prompted to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #9 January 3, 2010 I've probably only seen it a couple of times, at most. It's never happened to me in more than a thousand tandems, and shouldn't happen at all. If a TI teaches well and controls his student the risk can be brought close to zero. Not giving the student access to the handles at all is the lazy persons way out. Learning to teach and fly, and learning to respect the customer as a student, takes a bit more effort but is well worth it.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpull 0 #10 January 4, 2010 I happen to know it happened to Mark Procos once when he was riding on front as a tandem I/E. The jump before the guy pulled low, and on the next jump, stepped out of the SkyVan, and deployed. I understand it was a 30 minute ass chewing on the way down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #11 January 4, 2010 Quote I happen to know it happened to Mark Procos once when he was riding on front as a tandem I/E. The jump before the guy pulled low, and on the next jump, stepped out of the SkyVan, and deployed. I understand it was a 30 minute ass chewing on the way down. Now that's funny . I wondered how common this really is since I have only heard stories and not seen it in person. It sounds like it does happen, but not often enough to use it as an excuse for not giving the student the option of pulling. One TM I know that says it has happened to him (and I believe him) still insists on giving the students the option to pull."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #12 January 4, 2010 QuoteOne TM I know that says it has happened to him (and I believe him) still insists on giving the students the option to pull. why should this be a contradiction? would you quit teaching body position just because one pax went fetal?The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #13 January 4, 2010 Yes, I had a similar "high pull" more than a decade ago. This woman was scared and her body position did not even vaguely resemble an arch, so I jammed my heels into the tops of her knees to try and get her legs back. She took that as a "pull" signal and pulled (the drogue release) at 9,000 feet. Note, we normally tapped altimeters and slapped the drogue release handle to tell students when to pull it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #14 January 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteOne TM I know that says it has happened to him (and I believe him) still insists on giving the students the option to pull. why should this be a contradiction? would you quit teaching body position just because one pax went fetal? Apparently that is the case with some TM's, in regards to giving the student the option to pull."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivingchad 0 #15 January 4, 2010 I've had it happen to me twice in 2 seasons.The first one the drogue release got pulled going out the door. Second one was one of the reserve pins getting dislodged in the plane and having the reserve open at 9k. Learned my lessons both times. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. Pelt Head #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #16 January 7, 2010 No never with me and I teach 99% of my students to pull, of that 50% make the attempt and around 60% of those succeed. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #17 January 9, 2010 It's happened three times to me. Once @ 13.5, once at 12 and once at 8. No more first time students pulling.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 145 #18 January 9, 2010 never seen it in 29 years and only heard about it once or twice. Pulled myself twice very high due to ice crystals once and out of control spin once. I give all my students the option to pull, and an alti, and teach them all that stuff while on a 20 minute call with no problems at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wharewaka 0 #19 January 9, 2010 Happened to me. Pointed out the plane diving, student pulled.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #20 January 10, 2010 QuoteIt's happened three times to me. Once @ 13.5, once at 12 and once at 8. No more first time students pulling. From Davelepka above... "Not letting them pull is one solution*, but a better one is to go right from the shoulder tap to a handle block. Just cover it for a second, just to be sure they're not going to make a play for it. If they don't do it right out of the box, there's a pretty good chance they're not going to until they're prompted to do so. *MY comment: Not a good one at all, IMHO. Students are there to learn. You are there to teach." So the student pulls high....except for winter time, what's the big deal about a long canopy ride? Perfect opportunity to give them a lot of good, hands-on canopy flight instruction!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
