Shit Landing

[HardCorr 0]

2nd load of the day, No wind, perfect skies. Jumped out at 13,000, finally got my sit down!!! Tracked a little bit till 4k and pulled. Had a very uneventful canopy flight until I came down on my final. I ended up overshooting the landing area so I continued to follow the dirt road further down the landing area. At about 30 feet, I got pushed to the right over some prickly bushes and I tried to compensate by doing a flat turn but had to flare by the time I started the turn. I was so used to doing PLFs to my right that I didn't even think about performing a PLF to my left so I tried to step down with my left foot and slammed down into the ground. Turns out I tore 2 ligaments in my left ankle, I'm out for about 2-3 weeks and I missed a bitching tracking dive that happened later on that day.

This leads me to ask, how can I correct for winds pushing me when I'm already under 100 feet? Should I just suck it up and land in the bushes or is there a quicker way to do a flat turn at 100 ft. or less?

Broke Ass Popeye

The key to being a good teacher, is to be a good listener...

[kelpdiver 2]

I will always favor the left - I'm not sure you can get away from your tendencies there.

When you have a choice at 1000ft, you want to be setting up for a landing spot that allows for unexpected gusts and drift. On jump 32 or so I was set up perfectly for a grass landing at Lodi, but only about 10ft to the right of another jumper. A few seconds before touchdown something pushed me left right at him and I had to do a flared turn landing to avoid him. I did it quite well, but after that I gave myself more spacing. Just because I pulled it off once doesn't mean I always will. It would be lame to hit another person on a big grass field.

I don't know what you can do at 30ft - seems a bit late in the game to fix - but maybe one of the veterens can help you.

[Avion 0]

Setting up well for landing has actually taken and still does take a lot of work for me. I'm very glad we have a large student area.

Somebody here has said, "The best way to avoid having to use superior skills to save yourself is to use superior judgement and avoid getting into such situations in the first place."

Maybe a canopy course could help you set up better for landing. Other than that, I suggest practicing PLFs off a chair, bucket or whatever, forwards, sideways, and backwards rolling on both your left and right till it comes automaticlly in any direction.

Cheers

[Superman32 0]

**Disclaimer-Look at my numbers- I don't know anything.

I think that making drastic direction changes at such low altitudes may put you in a much greater jeopardy than a side wind or downwind landing.
Way too many low turn incidents

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[freeflygirlz 0]

To me there are two options:

you can continue with your turn _while_ flaring, asymetric flaring. many of my students are doing this unintentionally...

or you could - depending on the size and type of canopy - try to make a light turn by moving your body in the harness while doing a symetric flare. form 30ft this might not really work with very large canopies!

For me both ways are working fine, sometimes I'm doing a ligtht turn during flaring just for fun as well... BTW I'm jumping a 135sft. Nitro

[meltdown 0]

Ask some experienced canopy pilots at your DZ about learning how to "sink in" landings. It can save your ass when you find yourself going long. Like flat turns, it's a survival skill.

[Scrumpot 1]

Quote

This leads me to ask, how can I correct for winds pushing me when I'm already under 100 feet? Should I just suck it up and land in the bushes or is there a quicker way to do a flat turn at 100 ft. or less?

Learn how to properly do a FLAT TURN!
If you did, and you KNEW, then you wouldn't be asking this question. A flat turn can be easily (and SAFELY ...as it is pretty much INTENDED to do) be done from 100'. It can be done from 30-50ft. But you must know how to do them RIGHT!

Most people confuse flat turn with instead a braked turn, and the only way they can be LEARNED (and the differences between them) is to have someone TEACH YOU, then PRACTICE THEM until they become instinctive/intuitive and when desired/needed: AUTOMATIC.

1. Learn the difference between Braked Turns, Flat Turns and Flare Turns (each is DIFFERENT!)

2. Talk with your instructors, a mentor or a known canopy control course provider in person on applying each's techniques and in what situations, then...

3. Go up and practice each! 1st up high to get the feel for them, then further in planned and optimal conditions.

That way, when you are in less than optimal conditions or situation, you will have these tools available to you in your quiver to use PROPERLY and instinctively and appropriately applied and correctly to the current (and potentially dynamic) situation at hand.

Long winded answer to a (true) FLAT Turn at 100' is just fine. If understood and executed properly. Your question of seeming to think you would need to do a flat turn "quicker" at <100' indicates to me, that you do not really KNOW what a flat turn really is, or how to properly execute it.

For that, please PLEASE see your instructors or a compitent and experienced canopy pilot/mentor.

Hope this helps!
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[mailin 0]

In Scott Miller's canopy course he tells us that flat turns are done from half breaks... and that breaked turns and flat turns are essentially the same.

Can you explain the difference as you see it?



Jen

Arianna Frances

[mdrejhon 8]

Quote

you can continue with your turn _while_ flaring, asymetric flaring. many of my students are doing this unintentionally...

That happened to me on the 26th jump. I think it was after my first downsize (from student Manta canopy to Sabre canopy) if I remember correctly. The end of this video clearly showed an accidental slight asymmetric flare. As a result, I think I landed about 3-4 feet to the left of where I intended. I didn't know I flared asymmetrically until I saw the video, but it sure felt different since I was new to this canopy, first time landing a Sabre... (Fortunately, the landing was pillow soft standup)

One of the instructors pointed this out, too.

[Scrumpot 1]

Okay, I am NOT the best at describing this... which is also why I strongly suggest you take this to your instructors (or even Scott Miller or Jimmy Trantor himself).

Yes, although both are essentially executed through the turn in basically a partially braked attitude, a FLAT turn does not START in 1/2 brakes.

For a Flat Turn, start out by (modrately) pulling only ONE TOGGLE. Then, AS the turn STARTS, almost immediately (but only subsequently) FOLLOW with the other toggle to "balance out"/offset. This is NOT "intuitive" which is why it has to be LEARNED and then PRACTICED!

A braked turn is going evenly to 1/2 brakes FIRST, then letting one toggle (the one OPPOSITE of where you want to turn) up.

I hope this makes sense, and the only reason I am posting it is because you ASKED. Please take this info to an INSTRUCTOR who can IN PERSON go through this with you! They are the only ones you should REALLY take this level of advice from.

I seriously DON'T want ANYONE to take this as just either gospel or in ANY WAY as "instruction", because it is not!

CHECK WITH YOUR CANOPY COURSE COACHES AND/OR INSTRUCTORS/MENTORS WHO KNOW YOU, AND IN WHOM YOU TRUST TO PROPERLY TEACH YOU THESE TECHNIQUES FIRST!

That said, I do also hope that at least this much is of "help".

Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[billvon 2,475]

>and that breaked turns and flat turns are essentially the same.

In a braked turn, you bring both toggles down and then let one up. It slows you down and gets you turned in a short distance. Only problem is, once you release both brakes your canopy is diving - bad near the ground. If you have to flare immediately you can't, because the canopy is diving.

In a flat turn you sort of do the opposite. You start the turn with one toggle then immediately 'flatten' it with the other toggle. Continue in the turn, gradually increasing the pressure on both toggles, until you are at the desired angle. Then let them both back up. At that point the canopy should neither dive nor float; if it just resumes level flight you have done a perfect flat turn. The reason you want to come out of it that way is that if you have to flare immediately you can.

[el_chester 4]

Scary video!!!!!!!!!

Forget about symmetric vs. assymetric flaring.

You did a low front-riser 180 at a very low experience level. Things could have been really, really ugly. Glad you didn't brake yourself.

Please, PLEASE study this video with your instructor. Be wise and slow down.

--
Be careful giving advice. Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it.

[bob.dino 0]

That 180° front-riser turn was his jumping partner. Mdrejhon's approach is a straight-in later on in the video and does include an asymmetrical flare.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

>and that breaked turns and flat turns are essentially the same.

In a braked turn, you bring both toggles down and then let one up. It slows you down and gets you turned in a short distance.

In a flat turn you sort of do the opposite. You start the turn with one toggle then immediately 'flatten' it with the other toggle.

Quote

Well, I do it both ways, instinctively, I guess. Never really gave it much thought, just flew the canopy. Either way beats the hell out of some of the crap you see people doing close to the ground these days. I'm tired of people getting killed under open canopies.

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites

[mdrejhon 8]

Quote

Scary video!!!!!!!!!

Forget about symmetric vs. assymetric flaring.

You did a low front-riser 180 at a very low experience level. Things could have been really, really ugly. Glad you didn't brake yourself.

Please, PLEASE study this video with your instructor. Be wise and slow down.

*************************************************
-> HOLD ONTO YOUR HORSES ... You got the wrong guy. <-
*************************************************

That wasn't me -- There were three people landing in that video. The video guy filmed all of us. I'm not the first lander who swooped (the one you saw, the blue canopy is NOT me). I'm the next lander, the second lander, out of the three landers, landing in a left-to-right camera pan, about 2 meters outside the peas. Also, I'm not the lander carrying the video camera either. The guy videod all of the 3 of us landing.

One of the instructor has already seen this video and noted the asymmetric flare.

[mdrejhon 8]

Quote

That 180° front-riser turn was his jumping partner. Mdrejhon's approach is a straight-in later on in the video and does include an asymmetrical flare.

Exactly. That was my jumping partner.

The straight-in landing with the asymmetric flare, touching down about 2 meters outside of the peas, is me.

Hm. Methinks I should edit-out other jumper's landings out of the video in the future... To avoid confusion.

The video linked only to reply to provide an actual video example to somebody's posting about the aboveforementioned student mistake of an unintentional asymmetric flare. I thought the landing was surprisingly relatively soft one considering the circumstance of the asymmetric flare. (As far as I know, the only time I did an accidental slight 10-degree flare-turn) An instructor who saw me, told me to watch my flare symmetry for the next jump.

I've never touched a front riser before except above 1500 feet. And I'm at jump 44.

[el_chester 4]

sorry 'bout that. my bad.

--
Be careful giving advice. Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it.

[packerboy 3]

he he he... Simon's landings are never scary...

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson