Hard Opening Injury 24 July 2005 at Delmarva

[Scrumpot 1]

The following e-mail exchange (between myself and the injured skydiver) describing another hard opening, extreme enough to cause injury, is being posted with the originators (the injured skydiver's) permission. My apologies for the delay in this reporting as I was not on the DZ this particular day, and have just learned of this incident (and gained permission to post it) last night.

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Grant, I jump a Sabre 2 150 and weigh 160- you do the math.....

(Canopy was) packed after last jump Saturday night, so it wasn't a rush job. The jump prior to that on Saturday had been a quick pack job to make an 8-way that was moved up a load and that opening was a soft slow snivel like I love.

The slammer was a high clear and pull. Actual exit at 14,000 and pulled very stable at 10k. Slammed instantly, lines twisted to my NECK (actually have a cut from the risers ). Pulled twist out easily, landed fine and healing slowly.

Thanks for your concern.
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Glad to hear you are okay.

I agree with you, that it probably had NOTHING to do with either packing or body position in this instance either. That said, you do realize at 10k you were at terminal don't you, and that this was NOT necessarily a "clear & pull" by definition. Therefore, the higher (pull) alt -combined with the high (relative) temps, which will also net affect the density alt. (meaning potentially even INCREASING your at that moment freefall speed) all very well COULD HAVE contributed to this.

It must have been made even worse for you to have to "negotiate" your canopy under those circumstances for considerably longer too, eh? Probably not the nice relaxing high FUN longer canopy ride you were looking for I'll bet.

Can I have your permission to post this in/on dropzone.com for you regarding this, so that it can be included in some of the currently already going-on Sabre/Sabre2 communications considerations accordingly?
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Permission granted.

I will be happy to relay questions, and any dialogue that any of you may have, as I do not believe the affected jumper is either a member of or poster to, these boards. Please note that I will be AWAY from even my own access to here, probably until Monday, 1- Aug, so may also not be able to respond until then. I did think that at least getting the post itself up in the interim was worthwhile to do. I will check back into this then, and either relay or answer any questions you all may have at that time.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[davedlg 0]

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the higher (pull) alt -combined with the high (relative) temps, which will also net affect the density alt. (meaning potentially even INCREASING your at that moment freefall speed) all very well COULD HAVE contributed to this.

I am interested in this statement. I would think that the higher density altitude which would effectively increase terminal velocity somewhat would also have the same effect on the canopy - decreasing the volume of air presented to the opening and slowing it down. Could the higher density altitude cause the slider to come down that much faster, whilst inflating the cells quickly? At freefall speeds, does air density have that significant of an effect?

[marks 0]

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the higher (pull) alt -combined with the high (relative) temps, which will also net affect the density alt. (meaning potentially even INCREASING your at that moment freefall speed) all very well COULD HAVE contributed to this.

I am interested in this statement. I would think that the higher density altitude which would effectively increase terminal velocity somewhat would also have the same effect on the canopy - decreasing the volume of air presented to the opening and slowing it down. Could the higher density altitude cause the slider to come down that much faster, whilst inflating the cells quickly? At freefall speeds, does air density have that significant of an effect?

the lower you pull, the slower the opening. ive had some considerably harder openings at alt. and terminal. if i pull high, i do it out the door usually, just because of it.

how old is the canopy? and what kind of lines are on it?

[xavenger 0]

What is this international Hard Opening Month??

Until these last few weeks I had never considered hard openings as a particularly serious problem within the sport although some of the things I have been reading and hearing of late have been pretty scary. Apart from the occasional grumble and almost "laugh" about it they've never really been high on the agenda at my dropzone, in fact most places I have jumped.

Am I just imagining it, or am I just plain wrong but it seems a lot of these are on Sabre 2s?

The paralysis of the young Brit guy on his 30th jump whilst out in Spain, due to a hard opening, is just so tragic it's crazy.

I realise that body position is a factor in hard openings, dumping in a full track etc is not good but this and the important of quartering the slider properly and packing properly needs to be stressed to people. A lot of people don't consider hard openings to be that much of a problem and this needs to be addressed because just one is enough to maim you.

[billvon 2,435]

>but it seems a lot of these are on Sabre 2s?

It does seem that way, although that may be partly due to the fact that there are a lot of Sabre 2's out there. If it really worries you, both the Pilot and the Safire 2 are quite similar to the Sabre 2, but don't seem to have these opening problems as often.

[xavenger 0]

Like you say it may well be because there are more Sabre 2s out there .. until you get a larger volume of incidents (which of course I pray doesnt happen) it's difficult to tell whether it just a statistical blip/grouping or something that indicates a wider pattern.

I am without gear at the moment but about to start jumping again after a 12 month injury layoff - so am about to buy again in the next few weeks. I do have to confess this has put me off Sabre 2s just a bit.

A couple of my friends who have complained of hard openings (nothing serious just a grumble about it) are on Sabre 2s .. Hmmmmm!

[DontPanic 0]

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>but it seems a lot of these are on Sabre 2s?

It does seem that way, although that may be partly due to the fact that there are a lot of Sabre 2's out there. If it really worries you, both the Pilot and the Safire 2 are quite similar to the Sabre 2, but don't seem to have these opening problems as often.

I have a Pilot 188. A few weeks back, I had an opening so hard I saw stars, and my neck and back were sore for a week. This was very likely a packing error, but I'm not sure exactly.

I think you are right in warning about drawing too many conclusions from anecdotal evidence. My impression (or possibly misimpression ) is that Sabre IIs outnumber the Pilots and Safire 2s considerably, so it is hard to separate how much their popularity is contributing to the more frequent hard openings as opossed to some charactistic of the canopy itself.

I like my Pilot, but I have educated myself the hard way that hard openings are a possibility even with a Pilot.

[rushmc 18]

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the higher (pull) alt -combined with the high (relative) temps, which will also net affect the density alt. (meaning potentially even INCREASING your at that moment freefall speed) all very well COULD HAVE contributed to this.

I am interested in this statement. I would think that the higher density altitude which would effectively increase terminal velocity somewhat would also have the same effect on the canopy - decreasing the volume of air presented to the opening and slowing it down. Could the higher density altitude cause the slider to come down that much faster, whilst inflating the cells quickly? At freefall speeds, does air density have that significant of an effect?

the lower you pull, the slower the opening. ive had some considerably harder openings at alt. and terminal. if i pull high, i do it out the door usually, just because of it.

how old is the canopy? and what kind of lines are on it?

I have a 230 Sabre 2. I will not open at terminal at high altitude anymore. If I want to open real high it is a hop n pop

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[veter_ 0]

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It does seem that way, although that may be partly due to the fact that there are a lot of Sabre 2's out there.

While Sabre 2 is a popular canopy, cumulatively all other canopies outnumber Sabres. One would expect to hear about hard opening injuries on other canopies as well. Yet, we are almost tired of hearing about yet another Sabre 2 hard opening.

Based on the reposts and reviews, I simply excluded Sabre 2 from the list of available canopies. If I were given a free Sabre 2, I wouldn't jump it -- but I'd use it for ground launching

[pilotdave 0]

I hear more about all those stories of hard openings than I hear about hard openings. I think the talk about the talk about hard openings makes it sound more common than it is. I have a Sabre2 so I tend to pay a lot of attention to things like that. But I hear about hard openings on Spectres and other canopies just as often. The one guy that broke his leg from a hard opening is the only one that's sounded really unusual. Comments about other people's stories of hard openings make it sound like it happens on every jump. Where's that poll of what canopies people jump.... I think there was definitely a big spike on the Sabre2.

I've got something like 325 jumps on my Sabre2 and no hard openings. Always off heading (unless it does a whole 360), but never hard!

Dave

[veter_ 0]

BTW, another testimony: a friend of mine recently damaged his back and neck from the hard opening of Sabre 2 (190sq.ft.)

[tfelber 0]

At WFFC last year I tested all the different canopies available in the mid range performance area, Sabre2, Safire, Pilot, Nitro... I also recently jumped the Axon. I like the people at PD and I think their canopies are well constructed, but the opening characteristics of the Sabre2 were by far the WORST!

I posted a review of all these canopies here if you search around. The Sabre2 would smack you occasionally and always took an immediate left or right on opening. I packed the canopy myself and had PackinCathy pack it for me, but it was completely unpredictable.

[FrogNog 1]

Did you mean Safire or Safire2?

Of the Sabre2, Safire (or Safire2, whichever one you meant), Pilot, Nitro, and Axon, which of those is the oldest model?

BTW, if a canopy always takes an immediate left or right on opening, that's predictable.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[tfelber 0]

Safire2. I believe the Safire2 had considerably more jumps on it than anything else. The Pilot, Sabre2, and Axon were new enough that they were hard to get in the bag (I tried three times with the Pilot and then took it to Cathy).

But it's hard to tell just how many jumps were on each canopy. The Nitro only had a couple of jumps on it, was the easiest to pack because they use a different material, had incredibly predictable, soft openings, and a ton of flare on the bottom end. Needless to say it is the one I bought and I still enjoy the hell out of it.

BTW these were all 150's. The Nitro I bought was a 135.

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BTW, if a canopy always takes an immediate left or right on opening, that's predictable.

Predictable, yes, desirable no!

[gatorbreath 0]

I had a Sabre 2 210 with approx 200 jumps when I bought it used, explode over me head so hard it broke 6 lines, and twisted the stainless rings. I sent it to the MFG they immediately replaced it at no charge with a brand new Sabre 210 which opened wonderfully for 37 jumps and did the exact same thing as the first one. Both were normal stable positions at approx 3500 ft openings. I also found out later the first one was repaired at the MFG because it exploded on the first owner as well.

[dharma1976 0]

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Like you say it may well be because there are more Sabre 2s out there .. until you get a larger volume of incidents (which of course I pray doesnt happen) it's difficult to tell whether it just a statistical blip/grouping or something that indicates a wider pattern.

I am without gear at the moment but about to start jumping again after a 12 month injury layoff - so am about to buy again in the next few weeks. I do have to confess this has put me off Sabre 2s just a bit.

A couple of my friends who have complained of hard openings (nothing serious just a grumble about it) are on Sabre 2s .. Hmmmmm!

has any one of these canopies been test for trim, specifically brake trim?

I knowi that when my brake lines are shorter the cnaopy opens harder, cant explain why, but I am sure someone can.

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Scrumpot 1]

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how old is the canopy? and what kind of lines are on it?

The canopy was purchased new by this jumper late last season. I will go back and ask to get precise info, but if I had to guess ...it MAY have @150 jumps on it. Lineset is microline. 825 I believe, but on that too I will need to go back for you & find out.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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has any one of these canopies been test for trim, specifically brake trim?

This canopy is in proper trim, at least as it pertains to brake line trim as you ask in particular. I do not think that at least this singular hard opening had anything at all to do with, specifically brake line trim anyway.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[DBCOOPER 1]

Just got back from Lost Prairie.My first opening with a pack job that I did myself to open faster(nose hanging, about 6 rolls on the tail) certainly got my attention.It was no sabre 170 event but it was the hardest opening I ever had on a spectre.I demoed a pilot 168 there last year and I thought it opened to briskly to consider it an option.In retrospect I now realize it was the density altitude that was causing the openings that I was experiencing.Here is a picture of what happens if the slider is not against the stops at that DA.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[rmsmith 1]

Hi DBCOOPER, that bruising on your arm looks dark. You should see a doctor just to make sure that you don't have a blood clot move toward your heart. -RMS

[DBCOOPER 1]

Na that was from last year

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.