Did my first hop n' pop.

[dgskydive 0]

Come on go to 12.5 and do a Hop-n-pop.

4500 is just a high opening. 12.5 is fun tons of time to fly around and play.

Dom

[Andy9o8 0]

Those of us trained on S/L Back In The Day hereby mock you. My S/L's were at "2500", although I know the JM's alti read about 2200 at least a couple times when he opened the door. First freefall/hop & pop at 3500. 4500 was "high" - a 15-second delay. BTW, military combat S/L jumps are at 5-hundred feet. That's when the ants look like people.

[skyrider 0]

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Those of us trained on S/L Back In The Day hereby mock you. My S/L's were at "2500", although I know the JM's alti read about 2200 at least a couple times when he opened the door. First freefall/hop & pop at 3500. 4500 was "high" - a 15-second delay. BTW, military combat S/L jumps are at 5-hundred feet. That's when the ants look like people.

LOL, that is what I said much nicer earlier!

[liftedtitan 0]

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I've had to leave planes as low as 1200' due to engine problems. It was nice to know I could get my canopy open in time.

did you pull your reserve from this height?

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[JohnMitchell 14]

No, I was jumping a 7-cell Unit in a Racer with a pull out. Very similar canopy to many BASE rigs today, very reliable. In fact, 0 cutaways in ~1400 jumps on that combo. I have to admit making intentional hop and pops from that low anyway, so it wasn't too big of a deal.

One thing to remember is that you have about as much time until impact leaving the plane from 1200 feet, about 11-12 seconds, as you do pulling at 2000 feet already at terminal speeds. In either situation, though, there is very little time to deal with a malfunction. You have to be primed to act . . . NOW!

[liftedtitan 0]

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No, I was jumping a 7-cell Unit in a Racer with a pull out. Very similar canopy to many BASE rigs today, very reliable. In fact, 0 cutaways in ~1400 jumps on that combo. I have to admit making intentional hop and pops from that low anyway, so it wasn't too big of a deal.

One thing to remember is that you have about as much time until impact leaving the plane from 1200 feet, about 11-12 seconds, as you do pulling at 2000 feet already at terminal speeds. In either situation, though, there is very little time to deal with a malfunction. You have to be primed to act . . . NOW!

Thanks, I don't know why but mentally it seems like the PC might not create enough pull force at sub-terminal speeds to get the bag out and open quick enough. But I know I am probably wrong in that thinking.

Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt.

[Andy9o8 0]

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No, I was jumping a 7-cell Unit in a Racer with a pull out. Very similar canopy to many BASE rigs today, very reliable. In fact, 0 cutaways in ~1400 jumps on that combo. I have to admit making intentional hop and pops from that low anyway, so it wasn't too big of a deal.

One thing to remember is that you have about as much time until impact leaving the plane from 1200 feet, about 11-12 seconds, as you do pulling at 2000 feet already at terminal speeds. In either situation, though, there is very little time to deal with a malfunction. You have to be primed to act . . . NOW!

Thanks, I don't know why but mentally it seems like the PC might not create enough pull force at sub-terminal speeds to get the bag out and open quick enough. But I know I am probably wrong in that thinking.

Well, remember, you need to factor-in not just earth-ward velocity due to gravity, but also the relative wind airspeed due to prop wash and forward throw.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Well, remember, you need to factor-in not just earth-ward velocity due to gravity, but also the relative wind airspeed due to prop wash and forward throw.

Yes, that's it exactly. It's the forward throw of the plane that gives you the airspeed to open right away. I've told pilots on really low ones to not cut back or slow down the plane too much. Of course, if the engine's out, then you get what you get.

It'd be sketchy doing low balloon jump or hovering helicopter jump. That's more like a base jump at that point.

You know the funny thing about when the engine quits? It's quiet for about 2 seconds, then gets real noisy again when everyone starts yelling back and forth.

[pchapman 262]

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Thanks, I don't know why but mentally it seems like the PC might not create enough pull force at sub-terminal speeds to get the bag out and open quick enough. But I know I am probably wrong in that thinking.

I understand that. If you do have a small pilot chute that's getting worn out, yes a hop and pop will tend to be when you first notice a hesitation in the pilot chute and an uncomfortably slow deployment sequence.

Generally though, on a hop and pop it may feel like the opening takes longer than normal, which it often is, but you are starting from zero vertical speed. So the impression is that after you are open that the plane is "right there!" -- the plane isn't that far above you, and you haven't lost that much altitude..

[3mpire 0]

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maybe I should explain, for the younger jumpers...Back in the static line days, If you didn't do a hop in pop,, you would never get to work your way up to "freefall"!

Not everything is AFF. I did a SL progression this summer. I never did a tandem, and I didn't go up to full altitude till my 13th jump.

I actually think I prefer it that way if I had to do it all over again. Earning free fall made it feel that much more exhilarating.

It took me a minute to understand why a hop-and-pop would be an issue for folks until I hit your comment and realized AFF jumpers might find the idea weird at first.

All paths lead to the same goal, though!

[Scrumpot 1]

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only waiting 3 seconds sure doesn't put you at 3500 feet!

Hi Pat! ...The idea of them watching and assessing as to whether he cleanly pitched within 3 seconds, was not to get him to/put him at 3,500 ft. Rather, it was to "simulate" that he successfully deployed "in time" (as if at 3,500).

I just happen to know a few DZ's that take this position/philosophy. They feel that for the 1st time a student is actually exiting the plane to "simulate an emergency" - that somehow, this is "safer". So they will sign off on their "low-pass / hop-n-pops" regardless, at 4.5, 5, or even 5.5! "Whatever they get" (and is most convenient for the pilot/his pattern, I suppose)... ...

Not defending it, as I too agree with you/John. The card says 3,500 ft. Friggen-A DO IT AT 3,500 FT!

What are "we" scared of? ...And then, by OUR actions then (as instructors going along with this) - probably even further transmitting this way, to the student - to be scared of?

To the OP on accomplishing your 1st "low" H&P - congratulations! But as I'm sure you can already see/read between the lines here ...there are some of us that don't fully feel/necessarily agree that this methodology (of doing it from >5k and still signing you off on it - if that is what you are saying is getting done) is fully serving you here either.

FWIW.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[tmarine253 0]

I plan on doing one at 3500. The other DZ near me does them from 3500 so I will do one there as soon as I get back to Florida. And I honestly have no idea why Deland just does them between 4500 and 5000. However, I do understand why some of you do not agree with that system.

[motomike 1]

most of the time DZ hnp from 4500 becuz that is the altitude that your second pass is on (bigger planes)

Why waste fuel for a low get out?

[tmarine253 0]

That makes sense.

[julio_gyn 0]

did mine at 2500... I came of SL, so 2.5k is not too low....

Julio Cesar
blue skies

[TSISK 0]

Ill be in Eloy this weekend... Anybody wanna do a full altitude hop n pop

[grannyinthesky 0]

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Ill be in Eloy this weekend... Anybody wanna do a full altitude hop n pop

With planes dropping loads every few minutes, that's not a great idea! There's a canopy safety seminar Saturday evening. You should try to make it to that.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[grannyinthesky 0]

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most of the time DZ hnp from 4500 becuz that is the altitude that your second pass is on (bigger planes)

Why waste fuel for a low get out?

So send up a 182! The A license requires 3500 feet. I hate to see it being ignored.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[tmarine253 0]

I dont even think Deland has a 182. I have never seen one there.

[TSISK 0]

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Ill be in Eloy this weekend... Anybody wanna do a full altitude hop n pop

With planes dropping loads every few minutes, that's not a great idea! There's a canopy safety seminar Saturday evening. You should try to make it to that.

I will for sure be there for that. If its the last load of the day how is it a bad idea?

[Coreefdiver 0]

I don't know why people (newbies) are so freaked out about hop-n-pops... they're easy, fun, more canopy time, etc...


I've been hammering them lately since I got my new Sabre2

DS#727, DB Cooper #41, POPS #11065, SCR #13183, FA #2125, SCS #8306, HALO #309 SRA #5930

[The_Don 0]

Yo! Clueless! LOW HOP & POP!



Yummy troll food! NOM NOM!!!

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!

[pchapman 262]

There's that idea that the first low hop and pop is scary for the AFF trained jumper.

One instructor I know has said that it wouldn't be so bad for the students if they just went ahead and did it. Some students don't get all that worried about it and perhaps just focus on the exit, not on the ground looking closer than usual.

But when others on the DZ hear of a student about to do their first hop and pop, some start telling the student about the low & scary aspect. My friend feels that it wouldn't be so low & scary if students weren't filled with ideas about how low & scary it is supposed to be!

[wildfan75 1]

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My home DZ does them from 4500-5000 feet for whatever reason. However you won't get it signed off unless you pull in like 3 sec. from leaving the plane.

Maybe for your water training they'll just throw a wet towel in your face.

They should have you do the hop and pop from 3500' to get your license. I don't want to be the guy shoving you out of the plane on an emergency exit 'cause you balk in the door.

A neighboring dz closes for the winter and we always get a bunch of AFF trained turbine babies (it's okay, I admit I'm a Cessana brat). We asked one guy two years ago what's the lowest he'll get out at in an airplane emergency. He thought for a few moments and said, "4500' to 5000'".

He did a lot of door dives that winter.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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We asked one guy two years ago what's the lowest he'll get out at in an airplane emergency. He thought for a few moments and said, "4500' to 5000'".

Until he feels our feet in his ass. Then he's leaving the plane.