Both on Red or One on Each?

[Andy_Copland 0]

I have been taught in my 5 AFF jumps time and time again that if you are going to cut away you follow this procedure

1.) Look - Chin down looking at your chest
2.) Locate - Grab both handles firmly
3.) Cut-away - With your right hand pull the velcro up so your thump is like a pivot on your chest then yank to groin
4.) Reserve - Pull very hard to groin
5.) Arch

I was watching a video and saw the procedure they taught was slightly differant, they taught you to locate the cut-away with both hands. Why is this?

I would have thought that if your having a bad one and had to cut-away you might not be able to find your reserve, so with a hand on each handle i just thought it might be easier. Can anyone fill me in on this?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[nate_1979 9]

Both procedures are used frequently... I use two hands on each handle, just how I was told to do it... But for now just listen to what your instructors want to teach you to do... But, one idea of 2 hands on each handle is that you cant accidently pull the reserve before the cutaway if both hands are on the cutaway.. Also more force if it's a hard pull.. I think that one hand on each handle can be done a bit quicker... They both have pro's and con's

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[teason 0]

I agree, both do have pros and cons. If you are going to another DZ, make sure the instructors are aware of what you have been taught. I've seen confusion arise from going to a different DZ and having a slightly altered procedure presented.

It doesn't matter which method is better, consistancy is the best training tool of all.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Shark 0]

Discuss this with YOUR instructors.

[nate_1979 9]

Very true... The DZ I learned at taught both hands on one handle... When I lost my proficency the first time (prior to A lic) I did my recurrency jump at a different DZ that did one hand per handle, ... I explained to them that's not how I was trained and they ageed that I should continue with what I had been taught origionally.. Stick with what you know and have practiced.. No reason to change

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Guest]

This is much better discussed with your instructors, and practiced as they recommend.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Lol its not like a was going to change my drills, they've been hard wired into my brain. All i wanted to know was the reasons for both, as you all keep saying there are pro's and con's, what are they?

Im sorry if it's a newbie question you've heard a hundred time's, but im yet another newbie

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Ron 7]

Quote

Lol its not like a was going to change my drills, they've been hard wired into my brain.

You most likley could not anyway. I had a jumper ask me to drill a different procedure into their brain that they had learned. I told them its not a good idea...Guess what? After the first ride they had they admitted that they did the old one.

Quote

All i wanted to know was the reasons for both, as you all keep saying there are pro's and con's, what are they?

Two hands on each handle: You look at the Cutaway and grab it with both hands...You then LOOK at the reserve handle and pull right (Some add a strip of the cables) then left.

Good things:
If you have a hard pull you have both hands to grab and pull.

Almost impossible to have an out of sequence deployment, and this has killed people.

Bad things:
Well it takes time to grab the reserve, and you just cut away your main and are going to be falling fast again.

I find it hard to arch and hold a good body position using this method...Most people when they look they bend forward. Since they have to look at the reserve they tend to stay in a jacked up body position.

One hand each handle:
You look at the cutaway and grab it with your right hand, then look at the reserve and grab it with your left. Pull right then left.

Good things:
Well your hand is ON the reserve handle. So you will not have to look for it, and its not going to shift when the cutaway happens. (I think this is the best reason for this method).

It is fairly easy to arch with both hands on both handles, you can kick your head back before the pulls and thet really helps.

I think its a faster reserve after cutaway.

If you ever plan on doing tandems this is the method you will have to use for them.

Bad things:
Well, you can have a hard cutaway that would require both hands. I have never had this problem and I have had 6 mals and never needed more than one hand. (Mals with a WL up to 1.8)

You can pull out the handles in the wrong order...And this can kill you.

I use one hand on each handle....Why? I was taught that way in my FJC 13 years ago. Thats the only reason.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Andy_Copland 0]

Cheers for the reply. I know what you mean about how you can't change procedure aswell, i was taught on normal rip cord and after 3 weeks when the weather cleared i was told that the they had changed to throw away's, first AFF level and i nearly held onto the throw away .

Also what factors make the cut-away's hard or easy?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Ron 7]

Quote

Also what factors make the cut-away's hard or easy?

If you maintain you gear (clean your cables/flex your three rings...ect) and things like riser inserts help.

High WL's can increase the pull force needed.

The #1 cause of a hard pull? People don't PEEL the velcro before they try to punch the handle.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Andy_Copland 0]

Thanks for the info, just hoping the weather holds out now for saturday and AFF level 6

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[riggerrob 558]

Both methods work.
Just learn one method and stick with it.

[EricTheRed 0]

I nearly died due to a reserve/main PC entanglement that was the result of a one-hand-each handle cutaway from a baglocked main.
Best I can figure, the main did not seperate quickly enough due to a lack of drag and good riser protection.

My drill now is to cutaway, check for seperation, then reserve.

Make sure the main is gone before firing the reserve if altitude and circumstances allow.

illegible usually

[Andy_Copland 0]

It all sounds so easy on the ground, i know during my skydiving that one day im going to need to ride my reserve down and the thing that really scares me is the idea of my main not coming fully away and my reserve getting tangled in it, tangles are a bad road to go down .

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Deuce 1]

Your student rental gear will not fit you perfectly, because it is adjustable. We teach look right, grab right (both hands) look left (identify the handle and keep your eyes on it), Pull right (expect things to move around) and move both hands to the left handle and pull left without letting it out of your site.

That said, I've had 4 sport reserve rides and 3 tandem reserve rides and I did them all one hand each side. On tandems it really can't be done any other way.

BEWARE the internet. Find a competent mentor and discuss everything you have heard here and then listen to your mentor/instructor.

[koppel 3]

I had my first (BEER) cutaway a few weeks ago. WL 1.85 on a 117sqf eliptical. Major linetwists that weren't coming out when I tried to kick out. On my back spinning up real fast and decided 'Ah well here we go'. The next thing I know is my right hand at full extension and the feeling of dropping away from my main. Arch and Pull with the Left. I also have hard casing riser inserts which I believe are vital on smaller canopies. Also I must admit that I didn't look but my EP's took over and my hands knew where to go. I do Tandems as well as instruct S/L. I practice my EP's on the ground before I get in the plane and two or three times on the way to height. When was the last time that you practiced yours????

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[Andy_Copland 0]

I do mine all the time im glad to say, but in doing so i've lost all my friends as they get sick of me trying to teach them it . Basically because i tell my girlfriend and friends how to do it im drilling it further into my thick skull Its just the thought of the main not coming fully away that makes my stomache tighten . Also 2 more levels and i get to do a Hop n Pop which i've been informed is great fun so im gona camp the DZ a few days this week and get some serious jumping in

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[hemphog 0]

We use one hand on each (look, locate, right, left). But with soft housings you are more likely to have a hard cutaway, so keep in the back of your head you may need to use 2 hands (and always remember to PEEL first!)

edited to say remember to keep your handles!

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"Ya we'll rape the local objects, and maybe do some jumps too!"

[Andy_Copland 0]

Nice advice mate, my AFF instructor has warned me about not peeling first

Dont underestimate the strength of velcro

Cheers guys for replying you done NOTHING to set my mind at ease

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Devious 0]

When I learned AFF I learned two hands on each one. After I got my license, I learned one hand on each.

I just had my first cutway last weekend, and I used one hand on each. No problem. One thing I do though, is during my gear check, I reset the velcro so it doesn't make it so difficult to pull handles.

Plus with one hand on each, I kept my handles and saved about $90.

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May the skys be blue, but never your balls!!!

[Andy_Copland 0]

Sounds like beer money to me, glad ur ok

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

during my gear check, I reset the velcro so it doesn't make it so difficult to pull handles.

That does not make sense to me. If you 'reset' the velcro, you should smash it back together completely so it has as much 'adhesion' as possible. I hope you are not intentionally putting the handle on to reduce the 'adhesion'. Peeling the handle is very easy to do, don't bypass the need to peel by reducing the holding force of the velcro.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Devious 0]

I did have to buy beer, and a bottle of Sambuca for my rigger.

I don't loosen the velcro. I just reset it. Velcro over time can gain greater adhesion. Especially because people are constantly pushing on it. Its something I learned and it makes since. It doesn't make it so your handles just fall out. It prevents hard cutaways.

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May the skys be blue, but never your balls!!!

[riggerrob 558]

Pile Velcro only has a life of 100 or 200 peels.

You are just prematurely aging your Velcro by peeling it every time you do a gear check.

Keep in mind that some of the Velcro in ripcord pockets is a B!!!!TCH to replace, requiring delicately unpicking stitching in the main lift webs ... a task best left to a Master Rigger ... on his good day.

[Andy_Copland 0]

This thread has just gone way above my head

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.