scottMO 0 #1 October 6, 2011 I have my eye on a tamdem rating in the distant future and in reading the requirements for a tandem rating, I must have: Strong Enterprises Pre-requisites from http://strongparachutes.com/Documents/PDF_Files/Tandemprerequisites.pdf 1. Minimum of 18 years of age. 2. 50 jumps within the last year. 3. Jumpmaster or Instructor rating, or the Basic Instructor Course (BIC), or coach. 4. One intentional or emergency cut-a-way. So, luckily, I have never had a cutaway (yet), but with that said, I now have to strap on a belly mount, jump it, and cut it away? (cause I know they dont mean an intentional cutaway from a good main to the only remaining reserve, right??) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #2 October 6, 2011 There are a lot of ways to do an intentional cutaway. UPT has Skyhook demo rigs that are basically normal Vectors with a belly mount tertiary canopy. Pros: It comes the closest to real emergency procedures. The rigging is fairly simple. Cons: You have to find the main, freebag, any handles you dropped, and you have to pack the reserve after every use. There are some rigs out there that have three canopies on the back. Two "mains" and a normal reserve. Pros: You don't have to pack a reserve. Cons: The procedures are more complicated and the rigs can be tough to find. I believe Strong does or did make them available to rating candidates. There are belly mount mains. Pros: Once you chop, you are basically back to a normal sport rig. Cons: Deployment can be tricky. The containers are usually built in the field and quality and safety varies. You can wear a second harness and static-line the primary. Pros: Same as a belly mount main. Cons: You can hurt yourself if you screw up the rigging or the static lining. These systems are almost always homemade and often aren't well thought out. There are other options. If your profile correct you have at least 200 jumps to go before you are eligible for the rating. My advice would be to don't sweat it for now. When you get closer to taking the course, contact your local course director or the manufacturer and see what they recommend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #3 October 6, 2011 Just start packing like shit and then wait your turn....you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #4 October 6, 2011 I used a specially made Wings rig that had three main canopies. The first canopy was deployed normally from a BOC with a hand deployed PC. The second canopy, that I landed with, was a smart reserve with D-bag and spring loaded PC. The cutaway for the first canopy and the deployment handle for the second canopy were on the front of the rig and the handles were facing outside, similar to the way Strong dual hawk handles are. The 3rd real reserve had normal handles. Attached is a picture of the front side of the rig.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #5 October 6, 2011 Strong makes a three containers on the back rig just for this purpose. Jump Shack makes an intentional cut away rig but with a belly mount for the last the canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #6 October 6, 2011 easy solution - wear an empty harness with 3 rings and trashbag something that vaguely resembles a canopy. Fly that for a bit and then chop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottMO 0 #7 October 6, 2011 Quote easy solution - wear an empty harness with 3 rings and trashbag something that vaguely resembles a canopy. Fly that for a bit and then chop. hmm. so how do I keep the harness/trashback from overlapping my normal rig or keeping my normal rig from overlapping the 3 rings of the one I intend to cut away? I guess my options are: 1. 2nd harness/trashbag 2. pack crappier and wait 3. track down a specific "cutaway rig" near Missouri.. not really thrilled w/any of the 3 options.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #8 October 6, 2011 Quote Quote easy solution - wear an empty harness with 3 rings and trashbag something that vaguely resembles a canopy. Fly that for a bit and then chop. hmm. so how do I keep the harness/trashback from overlapping my normal rig? I guess my options are: 1. 2nd harness/trashbag 2. pack crappier and wait 3. track down a specific "cutaway rig" near Missouri.. not really thrilled w/any of the 3 options.. it's quite simple. your empty harness (a BASE container in my case) has nothing in it, so is slack, see the pic before boarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottMO 0 #9 October 6, 2011 Quote Quote Quote easy solution - wear an empty harness with 3 rings and trashbag something that vaguely resembles a canopy. Fly that for a bit and then chop. hmm. so how do I keep the harness/trashback from overlapping my normal rig? I guess my options are: 1. 2nd harness/trashbag 2. pack crappier and wait 3. track down a specific "cutaway rig" near Missouri.. not really thrilled w/any of the 3 options.. it's quite simple. your empty harness (a BASE container in my case) has nothing in it, so is slack, see the pic before boarding hmmm. ok, the pics are definately helping. did you basically just chop the trashbag (w/the parachute in it?) or chop a full main?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #10 October 6, 2011 Another option: my rigger has a harness (well, a bunch of straps + D-rings) you put on under your regular rig. Attached is a belly round - without pilotchute (!). You open your main then cutaway and pull your own reserve, the round is backup. You get a briefing on when and how to use that round (basically, don't, and if you have to, you toss it in the same direction you are spinning, not against). Jumping a belly reserve is not to be taken lightly if you are of the piggyback generation like most jumpers nowadays, and you also cannot cutaway your own reserve so you could end up with 2out. I also had to change my cutaway procedure from 2hands on each handle to 1 hand, since I couldn't reach around the bellymount. PLFing with that thing in the way was also harder for me. This setup has been jumped a couple times at our DZ, mostly by people in the same boat as you - wanting to become a TM but not having had a cutaway yet. Over here you need 1000 jumps + a cutaway, I think most jumpers have had one by then but otherwise, we have this setup. I jumped it twice, but for other reasons. I needed to do a jump on my own reserve because the first time I had a reserve ride on that particular reserve it opened with closed endcells and I broke my nose landing it. So when it was due for another repack, rigger suggested I jump it again, on purpose this time. Opened fine that time. The second time I jumped the bellymount harness was when I had a unknown brand (to me) reserve (a micron 175) and it was due for a repack that day, and since someone else had already taken care of the repack for the belly reserve I was like "why not". Didn't like the total absence of any flare whatsoever one bit so I traded that micron that same day for a PdF mayday 156, much better I actually got flack for not telling the CRW jumpers of my plans, they were in the same load and were miffed to be denied a ghostplane (Wouldn't have minded that, beats paying another jumper to chase my main). ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #11 October 6, 2011 Paul, I hope you don't mind me stepping in here. Paul said earlier: Quoteeasy solution - wear an empty harness with 3 rings and trashbag something that vaguely resembles a canopy. Fly that for a bit and then chop. That bit about "trashbag something..." and "fly that for a bit" means, contain a shitty parachute in a trashbag (or something) as a safety measure. Egress the aircraft and toss the bag. The parachute might inflate. If it does, fly the shitty parachute for a bit and then chop it. If it doesn't, chop the mess. Now you're having a typical skydive. Cheers."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottMO 0 #12 October 6, 2011 ok, cutting away my good main, to use my reserve as the primary (and have a POS belly reserve as a back up), isnt gonna happen... I'll be happy if I never see my reserve, ever.. Is there any way to deploy the belly mount quickly and chop it, then you still have your normal gear? This really sounds like the the best option: That bit about "trashbag something..." and "fly that for a bit" means, contain a shitty parachute in a trashbag (or something) as a safety measure. Egress the aircraft and toss the bag. The parachute might inflate. If it does, fly the shitty parachute for a bit and then chop it. If it doesn't, chop the mess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #13 October 6, 2011 Not in our setup, since you are jumping a RESERVE they're not generally made to cutaway, no. Also, I would not really like to be hanging from that harness especially just from that harness, as it is just a bunch of straps without padding and you'd be hanging backdown so to speak, so you'd have to "swim" through the lines to straighten up. BTW a belly round reserve is not a POS reserve, it's a functional reserve used by round jumpers all over the world. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottMO 0 #14 October 6, 2011 No offense intended on the "POS reserve" comment.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #15 October 6, 2011 How'd you manage a D license with 300+ jumps?Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KCJumper 0 #16 October 6, 2011 Depends when he got his D. Used to only take 200 jumps to get one. Ahh yes. Scott did get his before the cutoff. Just like I got my C with only 100 jumps. Been a few years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #17 October 6, 2011 Mentioned above but Strong has a rig set up for prospective tandem masters. It's handles for main (cutaway canopy) and reserve ( second canopy to land) mimic those on the Dual Hawk. The next set of handles are in then available. I've jumped that rig and NOT being a Strong Tandem master I had to learn wear all the handles were. I've also seen people really screw up the order. I suggest a set up that cutaway the first canopy to leave you with your normal skydiving rig. A harness under you rig or a rig with chest mount attachments is best. Cutting a way a real main opening a real reserve, while good practice, leaves you with the third canopy, real reserve, that is a poor choice. Chest mount rounds without PC or etc. I also recommend a rig where you can abort the cutaway and open the canopy you intended on landing first. The golden knights rigs don't allow you to do this. Also make sure that you can/want to land the first canopy. Lots of people/teams use canopies that are small, have reinforcing removed etc. But you may find yourself in a situation where you don't want to go ahead with the cutaway. There is a reason there is a B (?) license requirement to do an intentional cutaway. BEST WAY for you? Get the strong rig and learn the handle locations. It's available for rent. We've had it at our dz 2 or 3 times.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottMO 0 #18 October 6, 2011 QuoteDepends when he got his D. Used to only take 200 jumps to get one. Ahh yes. Scott did get his before the cutoff. Just like I got my C with only 100 jumps. Been a few years. Yep, started jumping in 1991 and got my D in 1994? 95? 96? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #19 October 6, 2011 I used the UPT vector demo rig with belly mount reserve. Was pretty straightforward just don't lose the main (chop over the right spot). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #20 October 6, 2011 Hi scott, Here are a couple of photos of Strong's tri-rig, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #21 October 6, 2011 It's a C license minimum to do an intentional. I know this because I wanted to do one first thing after getting my C. Funnily enough, PD packed me a mal on 191, 2 weeks after I had repacked my reserve while working on my ticket; the jump ended up being a load of firsts: first chop, first reserve ride, first reserve save. I got myself good and drunk upon landing. Oh well, c`est la vie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #22 October 6, 2011 I knew that. I was to lazy to refresh my memory. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #23 October 6, 2011 Quote That bit about "trashbag something..." and "fly that for a bit" means, contain a shitty parachute in a trashbag (or something) as a safety measure. Egress the aircraft and toss the bag. The parachute might inflate. If it does, fly the shitty parachute for a bit and then chop it. If it doesn't, chop the mess. Don't be such a pussy.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #24 October 7, 2011 Quote Quote That bit about "trashbag something..." and "fly that for a bit" means, contain a shitty parachute in a trashbag (or something) as a safety measure. Egress the aircraft and toss the bag. The parachute might inflate. If it does, fly the shitty parachute for a bit and then chop it. If it doesn't, chop the mess. Don't be such a pussy. I've got a T-10 harness with 1 1/2 shot's on it and a belly mount Cloud XL. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
