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tws3998

who should pay for cutaway costs

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On the Elliptical Canopy question, the demo canopy was ordered for me by one of the instructors on the DZ that has given me some good canopy coach type advice.



Find a new instructor, this one isn't giving you good advice. It's more like dangerously bad advice.



One thing, before trashing the instructor in all these threads....

People have conversations around the bonfire all the time, discussions about jumping and canopies and flying. As instructors, we have to be open to honestly answering questions, but then listening to what might be the intentions of the newbies and making sure we address THAT as well. Answering questions can be (purposely) misinterpreted as 'advice' and/or 'encouragement' to someone willing to hear what they want to hear.

Are they curious? Or are they really just looking for rationalization.

(however, for this specific quote - if the instructor actually "ORDERED AN ELLIPTICAL DEMO CANOPY" for this student, then he's really out to lunch and does need to be called out)




I really worry about a newbie who is posting these things and exaggerating/boasting beyond the 'truth' of it and then our super safety nazi's going out and trashing decent DZ's and instructors just because the newbie posted a DZ on his personal info.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Mainly stirring trouble but it seems like the supervising rigger should pick up the tab for the repack. That is on the assumption that there was one.



I don't know what the purpose of the 'supervising rigger' is in the UK, but in the US it does not include personally checking every step of every pack job. The truth is, I don't know what the exact purpose of the supervising rigger is in the US, just that they need to be 'there'.



Hi Dave,

I don't want to hijack the thread with my smart arse remarks. I actually jump in the US and am not familiar with UK/BPA regs.

In a recent thread about packing it was made clear by a rigger that the purpose of "direct supervision" is to ensure that the main is packed properly by checking all the important steps. It seems to me that this being the case - IF the FAA regs had been followed the error would have been caught.

First - don't get me wrong we are all responsible as licensed jumpers for our own safety. But I don't like this attitude that you "pay for the pack job, not the opening". If you are going to charge money for a service be professional. If you are negligent or incompetent you SHOULD be held to account. I realise that the USA's legal system tends to screw the innocent, hence the waivers etc and that needs to be born in mind when making generalisations.

Anyway I'm off my soap-box.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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On the Elliptical Canopy question, the demo canopy was ordered for me by one of the instructors on the DZ that has given me some good canopy coach type advice.



Find a new instructor, this one isn't giving you good advice. It's more like dangerously bad advice.



One thing, before trashing the instructor in all these threads....

People have conversations around the bonfire all the time, discussions about jumping and canopies and flying. As instructors, we have to be open to honestly answering questions, but then listening to what might be the intentions of the newbies and making sure we address THAT as well. Answering questions can be (purposely) misinterpreted as 'advice' and/or 'encouragement' to someone willing to hear what they want to hear.

Are they curious? Or are they really just looking for rationalization.

(however, for this specific quote - if the instructor actually "ORDERED AN ELLIPTICAL DEMO CANOPY" for this student, then he's really out to lunch and does need to be called out)



I agree that beer-thirty conversations can and are sometimes used as justification for poor judgement, but in this case it doesn't appear so.

From the OP's post..."the demo canopy was ordered for me by one of the instructors on the DZ that has given me some good canopy coach type advice."

Sure would like to know who this craphouse instructor is. Bet Precision wouldn't mind knowing, either.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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I replied mostly based on the demo canopy being ordered by the instructor. Now if that is a lie then I of course retract the statement regarding the instructor.



if you read my post - I made that point explicitly

I was talking in general about how we need to be aware of those newbies asking what seems like innocent questions to make sure they get the right info - ----- - but don't misuse it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Just clarifing my original post and agreeing with you at the same time.



gotcha

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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On the Elliptical Canopy question, the demo canopy was ordered for me by one of the instructors on the DZ that has given me some good canopy coach type advice. I have been jumping Sabre2, Silhouette and Pilot for most of my jumps.



Then, as mentioned before, you may want to get another instructor. A Nitron over here is a category 4 canopy, meaning you need 400 jumps minimum to jump one.
While these are not USPA rules, it might be a hint as to the type of canopy you're jumping.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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A Nitron over here is a category 4 canopy, meaning you need 400 jumps minimum to jump one.
While these are not USPA rules, it might be a hint as to the type of canopy you're jumping.



Thanks for the info, I want to enjoy this sport for years to come.

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Seeing the OP doesn't have their profile fully filled out (no home dz listed) it would be pretty hard to know even what area of the country they are in. Or they removed their home dz so people won't know where they jump.

But if you contact Precision and let them know that an "instructor" recently request a demo for a 100 jump newbie I bet they would be able to figure out who it was and hopefully get it back before they kill themselves or someone else. And hopefully never let that "instructor" order demos again. I am sure they will not tell you who it was but maybe they will let you know what dz it was at.
"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity"

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If you try to get a packer to pay for your shit you are a douche bag. If you judge a packer on a single pack job, you are a douche bag.

Pay your money, take your chances.



If that is your attitude towards a legitimate question, then i ask you to please refrain from posting.



[thumb pointed over shoulder]

Slack Valley is that away, kid.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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On the Elliptical Canopy question, the demo canopy was ordered for me by one of the instructors on the DZ that has given me some good canopy coach type advice. I have been jumping Sabre2, Silhouette and Pilot for most of my jumps. My worst accuracy has been under the square canopy. My wing load that is 1.1.



Remind me, which one of those is a square?
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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If the jump numbers in your profile is up to date (hell even if you have many more jumps than that) do yourself a favor and read through the threads on here about Sangi.



In post #41, I think you replied to the wrong person. If you didn't, yes, I followed that thread from post 1. Why do you suggest that I read it?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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go after a broke ass 'canopy compressor' for all of their Ramon noodles? ;)



Well, I see that you make too much money to be a real skydiver...can't even spell Ramen properly.
Sheesh.
;)
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Which "KId" from the Pacific NW?



The one that hosed himself in TX after being warned many times at home about aggressive canopy selection.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4189161;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Which "KId" from the Pacific NW?



The one that hosed himself in TX after being warned many times at home about aggressive canopy selection.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4189161;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread




Last time I checked, Davis, CA was not in the PNW. (Nor is the guy in question a "kid," actually). Let's not set folks up there worrying about one of their own.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Yes, sorry replied to the wrong post. That statement was directed at the original poster.

So to clarify...

tws3998...If the jump numbers in your profile is up to date (hell even if you have many more jumps than that) do yourself a favor and read through the threads on here about Sangi.

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Yes, sorry replied to the wrong post. That statement was directed at the original poster.

So to clarify...

tws3998...If the jump numbers in your profile is up to date (hell even if you have many more jumps than that) do yourself a favor and read through the threads on here about Sangi.



Not to worry. He has the jumps and he’s done the time. And you can be assured that he has been reading posts longer then you have been jumping. ;)

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Last time I checked, Davis, CA was not in the PNW. (Nor is the guy in question a "kid," actually). Let's not set folks up there worrying about one of their own.



My apologies to all. I pulled a boner and I claim Alzheimer's...

So, Davis, CA then.
And yes, to me he is still a "kid".
:|
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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