Could this affect the Army Gold Knights?

[Hermes70 0]

Washington Times:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/17/nascar-drivers-racing-to-save-military-sponsors/

Fast cars, young — mainly — men and the U.S. military.

For years, America’s armed forces counted on that combination to boost recruitment, spending tens of millions of dollars to sponsor NASCAR teams and defending it as an unparalleled way to get its brand name in front of the kinds of young men who provide the backbone of the country’s fighting forces.

But with trillion-dollar deficits and defense cuts looming, NASCAR and other sports leagues are feverishly fighting this week to try to defend that spending in the face of a conservative-liberal coalition that says it’s time for the government to stop pumping taxpayers’ money into private sports teams — at least without more evidence that it pays off...

The Gold Knights cost millions of dollars per year, and the justification for them is recruitment, so they would seem to fall into this same category of budget cuts. Just sayin.

[sundevil777 93]

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Washington Times:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/17/nascar-drivers-racing-to-save-military-sponsors/

Fast cars, young — mainly — men and the U.S. military.

For years, America’s armed forces counted on that combination to boost recruitment, spending tens of millions of dollars to sponsor NASCAR teams and defending it as an unparalleled way to get its brand name in front of the kinds of young men who provide the backbone of the country’s fighting forces.

But with trillion-dollar deficits and defense cuts looming, NASCAR and other sports leagues are feverishly fighting this week to try to defend that spending in the face of a conservative-liberal coalition that says it’s time for the government to stop pumping taxpayers’ money into private sports teams — at least without more evidence that it pays off...

The Gold Knights cost millions of dollars per year, and the justification for them is recruitment, so they would seem to fall into this same category of budget cuts. Just sayin.

I think this is a Speaker's Corner type of issue.

I think such advertising should definitely be cut.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[wildcard451 0]

The GK are a direct part of the army, and those soldiers can be sent to active duty in a combat environment (from my understanding) and are selected from current soldiers. They provide significant exposure for the Army through demos, celebrity tandems, competition, etc. If anything they are less likely to be cut.

Pumping tax dollars into pro sports? Fuck that. Would not bat an eye if they cut it.

What were they arguing over in the NFLPA contract dispute this year? $9 bil in profits? They don't need govt sponsorship.

[normiss 622]

Given the country's current financial situation, we owe it to ourselves to cut this type of spending everywhere.
IMO anyway.

[wildcard451 0]

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Given the country's current financial situation, we owe it to ourselves to cut this type of spending everywhere.
IMO anyway.

I certainly agree. I just was saying that since the GK are actually soldiers, and not targets of corporate sponsorship, I would think they are less likely to be targeted by this.

WTF do I know though.

[normiss 622]

I think I get what you mean....but still...it's time for hard cuts in spending.

[airtwardo 6]

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Given the country's current financial situation, we owe it to ourselves to cut this type of spending everywhere.
IMO anyway.

IIRC somebody @ ICAS a few years ago was throwing out the figure of 25+ million annually as the knights budget.

I'd be curious as to the actual return on 'investment' regarding that type of recruitment model...no denying they do have an effect and reach a desirable target market at most of the events they perform at.

I've known a lot of GK's over the years, great bunch of guys and it IS a rough tour doin' what they do.

I seriously doubt THAT Army exposure will ever be cut out...as with the Blue Angles & Thunder birds.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[davelepka 4]

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I seriously doubt THAT Army exposure will ever be cut out...as with the Blue Angles & Thunder birds.

Winner!

Funneling money into a NASCAR team, a privately owned business venture, in exchange for a paint job and some media exposure is one thing.

Maintaining the above mentioned units in the armed forces is another. They all feature trained soldiers who have served their country, and they all involve the height of skill and training in areas used by the military during wartime. Any of the soldiers or equipment used in those units can be called into active duty at the drop of a hat.

Much different than cutting a check to some redneck Nascar team owner.

[sundevil777 93]

Another thing to consider is whether the services are having an easy time meeting their recruiting goals. I think they are, and if so, how much of that is due to recruitment due to the GKs? I don't think much of it is due to them, or due to sponsorship of race teams. Maybe such "marketing" dollars are better spent on sponsoring video games.

I remember that the military is not allowed to provide airlift during record attempts because it would be competing against private companies that can be hired to fill that need. Imagine being a private business and having your competition be the military that is willing to undercut you completely, it isn't right and isn't allowed. Why should the GK demo team be considered differently?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[airtwardo 6]

Imagine being a private business and having your competition be the military that is willing to undercut you completely, it isn't right and isn't allowed. Why should the GK demo team be considered differently?

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Pat Moorehead use to make the same argument back when he was running the California Aerial Circus demo team.

Not only does the Army demonstration team 'give away' demos, they use the tax dollars provided by the civilian teams(in part) to do so.

Though I agree a logical argument, it always seemed to fall on deaf ears.

Similar case IMO to what the USPA was attempting to do with their unsecured 'loan' from the membership dues to be used to start a demo team to compete with the dues paying members.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[jlmiracle 7]

I was in Coolidge some years ago after the military left and the Knights were training out there, but the only other people that were "allowed" on their airplane was a Swiss Team.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[chuckakers 370]

The Knights aren't going anywhere, nor should they.

Their mission goes well beyond recruiting. The Knights are the Army's trophy in the same way the Blue Angels are to the Navy, the T-Birds are to the Air Force, and the elite drill team is to the Marines.

Their job is to pursue excellence and represent their military branch with honor.

Their budget falls under recruiting, but I think most on the team would tell you that's only a small part of their mission.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[excaza 1]

Not to mention their budget is small potatoes.

[normiss 622]

Billion here, billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.

The "cut your programs not mine" mindset continues.

Our government is going broke yet we refuse to correct the path.

[excaza 1]

I'm well aware of the mindset.

There are plenty of other things that can be cut that are worth far more money, yet everyone goes bananas over the small stuff.

[normiss 622]

There's simply too much small stuff.

[chuckakers 370]

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Billion here, billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.

The "cut your programs not mine" mindset continues.

Our government is going broke yet we refuse to correct the path.

If you want to discuss cuts worth making, the Knights are a looooong way from the top of the list.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Billion here, billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.

The "cut your programs not mine" mindset continues.

Our government is going broke yet we refuse to correct the path.

If you want to discuss cuts worth making, the Knights are a looooong way from the top of the list.

No worries for now....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/jul/18/nascar-wins-fight-keep-taxpayer-funding/

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[demoknite 0]

Knights, thunderbirds, angels, etc. arent going anywhere. Comparing it to the NASCAR thing is apples and oranges. Plus with the Knights you cant always peg it to hard recruitment numbers. Seeing as how most people dont have access to a military base where they live and if they do, they probably cant get on it, those programs are a way to tell Americans, "this is what the best of the best of the military that you pay for can do". And as mentioned, all the aircraft and personnel are military assets and can be deployed at anytime if sh*t were to hit the fan. Aircraft can be repainted and reconfigured for combat and the GKs will be stuck on a C-17 with 59 of their best friends ready to jump rounds into combat.
Outside of that once their tours are over they go back to the "real" military and pass thier skills on to others. Units with HALO capabilities love it when a GK comes back to the unit and can be a subject matter expert on free fall capabilities. Same thing with fighter pilots. They are also an in service recruiting tool where people can get away from their daily grind and try something else for a while.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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If you want to discuss cuts worth making, the Knights are a looooong way from the top of the list.

Yup. But it is a loooooong list.

[theonlyski 3]

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Maintaining the above mentioned units in the armed forces is another. They all feature trained soldiers who have served their country, and they all involve the height of skill and training in areas used by the military during wartime. Any of the soldiers or equipment used in those units can be called into active duty at the drop of a hat.

I've been deployed with at least 2 active knights. It was their 'get away' from the demo schedules.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[AccuracyJumper 0]

Folks, I am disturbed to see that some of you hold certain contrary perceptions about the US Army Parachute Team that are not supported by their stellar history and their current role as an ambassador to the public representing skydiving at its best. For starters, I am not and have never been a member of the USAPT, but I did serve in the 82nd Airborne at Ft Bragg and have competed against the USAPT on numerous occasions. I can attest that the entire organization is made up of the best soldiers and citizens that this country can produce. The USAPT has been instrumental in the development of present day parachuting equipment and free fall techniques since the late 1950’s, amassing a significant number of world records and championships. Their developments have aided the entire community of skydivers. The USAPT serves as a direct contact to the public through demonstrations, tandems, competitions and R&D. The Team has been recognized with USPA’s highest awards. As for the budget cuts that the DOD has proposed, those activities that have the lowest returns on investment will probably be cut, but the USAPT, which has the greatest exposure at the least expense of any of the various teams sponsored by DOD Public Affairs, should remain in operation. As to the desire to get jumps on military aircraft by civilians, this is not possible due to regulations. As you have stated in your blogs, the jumping of civilians on military aircraft would be in direct competition with DZs. On the other hand, members of the USAPT do a significant amount of jumping at civilian DZs paying for their jumps. A high percentage of Team members, past and present, are combat veterans that have earned many awards and decorations up to and including the Distinguished Service Cross. Many have paid the ultimate price of serving this country. Many others have attended flight school and/or Officer Candidate School, some rising to the rank of Brigadier General. Yes, the Team has done much more than just jump out of an airplane for recreation. It is just part of their military career. It is their job. Finally, I trust you will understand that the USAPT is an integral member of our skydiving community and work for the betterment of our sport through the creation of good will with the community. Dick Williams, D1072, USPA192.

D1072
SCR735

[5.samadhi 0]

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I think I get what you mean....but still...it's time for hard cuts in spending.

well certainly not a new main every year. Break a brake line? New LINESET!

Oh well at least our tax dollars are going to good use so they can have fun with their formation skydiving.

[excaza 1]

Fun? Just like the Blue Angels, the Thunderbirds, or any other demonstration team, they're doing it to represent their respective branches of the military to the rest of the world. On top of that, they're gaining skills and experience to bring back to their fellow servicemen when their tour is up.

What they do may seem silly to many, but the training and demonstration schedule is as intense and regimented as any other specialized military team. They're not doing it for fun.

[ParaHog 0]

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well certainly not a new main every year.

Canopies are not replaced based upon a fixed number of months, but rather upon wear and tear. And if you make a 1,000 jumps a year like the Gold Knights do, then they deserve a new canopy "every year".

According to your profile you have 300 jumps in two years. So to match the Gold Knights canopy replacement schedule, you've got to jump your canopy another four and a half years before you should consider replacing it.