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CSpenceFLY

Loose chest strap/Cypres fire.

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I'm not going to criticize him. There will be plenty of that to follow, I'm sure.

I will ask anyone who doesn't already have to plan of action to deal with an undone chest strap in freefall come up with one now and discuss it here.
Owned by Remi #?

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From the saftey of my computer, it would have been impressive to see him get the first loop of the strap through, pull, then hold the folded strap tightly against itself during deployment. The leverage gain would have probably be more than adequate.


labrys

I'm not going to criticize him. There will be plenty of that to follow, I'm sure.

I will ask anyone who doesn't already have to plan of action to deal with an undone chest strap in freefall come up with one now and discuss it here.

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This was going to be my next question, because I have no idea what the best course of action is. Fighting it into the ground certainly isn't it.

I would attempt to reroute it like he did, but if that doesn't work, what then? Do you dump & hug to try and keep the straps from coming off your shoulders? Do you dump head high (which could bring on its own host of issues) to get the snatch through the leg straps instead of the base rings?

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Discuss...



Pretty complete story in the video. More or less, nobody on the load took one look at that chest strap at any point (including the jumper).

Have to love the 'target fixation', right down to trying to thread it under canopy and again on the ground after landing.

Priorities people. Keep your eye on the prize at all times during a freefall, with the prize being an open canopy at a safe altitude. The way you do this and still be able to focus on your chosen freefall activity is preparation. Maintain your gear, properly pack your gear, and check your gear. Then check your gear. Then check it one more time. If you have spare time in the plane, check it some more. You can't check it too much.

I'm crazy about gear checks, and making sure everything I'm wearing is ready to go, from shoes to helmet and everything in between. The reason is that I want to be able to forget about it all 100% during my freefall and focus on whatever I'm doing on that jump. I want to know that I can get to pull time and have my stuff squared away and ready for deployment. The end of the freefall is no time to find a problem with your gear, it's time to pull.

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grab my right-hand main lift webbing with my left hand, then pull my main and try to grab the opposite MLW with my right hand...?

might sitting up to deploy if possible help to channel the opening forces more into the leg straps, reducing the chance of falling forwards out of the harness?

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I will ask anyone who doesn't already have to plan of action to deal with an undone chest strap in freefall come up with one now and discuss it here.



Very productive thought Kelly.

The procedure is to pull and then cross your arms in front of your chest. Some people suggest grabbing your harness on either side, but that seem like a tough grab to make mid-deployment. An easier grab would be grab each arm just above the elbow, as you have a much easier time of both hands finding both of your arms (you know where all of those parts are) as opposed to both hands trying to grab two things that are not attached to your body.

The idea is that having your arms in front of your body will 'lock' the MLW in place, much like a chest strap.

However, do not alter your pull procedure. A chest strap comes into play on a hard or head low opening, otherwise it's really just a 'back up' device to the natural geometry of the harness. This is one reason why the hardware is so flimsy, they just don't take much of a load.

Either way, trying to grab your harness with your left hand or crossing your left hand before the deployment will remove the lift created by having that hand up over your head, and guarantee you a head low opening.

So do your 'normal' pull procedure, and once the PC is tossed, keep your right arm moving up toward your chest, pull your left arm in to meet it, and grab your elbows.

In the event of a malfunction, it's much the same idea. Luckily, your handles are close to your chest and your arms will be close to being able to once again grab your elbows. Your chances for having an opening at something less than 'flat and stable' goes up in the case of a cutaway and reserve pull, so just be ready.

Using two hands on each handle will help, as your MLW will be 'locked in place' just by your arm position. So if your RSL gets your reserve out before you, your hands (and arms) will be close together as they will both be moving from the cutaway over to the reserve.

Beyond that, see my other post above about preventing these types of problems. I will add one thing I forgot, never ever never let anyone grab your harness for any reason. Jumpsuits have grippers for a reason, use them. Your harness was not made to be gripped and tugged on, and this is the quickest way towards getting a handle pulled, or a chest/leg strap loosened to the stop during a skydive. Just say no.

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grab my right-hand main lift webbing with my left hand, then pull my main and try to grab the opposite MLW with my right hand...?

might sitting up to deploy if possible help to channel the opening forces more into the leg straps, reducing the chance of falling forwards out of the harness?



See my other post, but no. Keep your pull procedure the same, and then (quickly) grab your elbows after you toss the PC.

Your best chance for a 'good' opening, one where the chest strap does nothing, is to use your 'normal' pull procedure. You already have one new thing going on, that being the need to grab your elbows, don't introduce another 'new' thing like trying to pull from a different position. If you sit up too much, or fall off to one side, you are only adding to your problems.

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Textbook.

He didn't even need the cheststrap (as his reserve opening showed!)

Good job on totally ignoring where he was flying after he had a good canopy in favour of continuing to try to do the cheststrap up. And finally excellent work landing the reserve from 3/4-brakes - that was always going to end smoothly.

This is possibly one of the most clueless videos I have ever seen. Talk about a chain of events. Lucky it wasn't way worse.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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labrys

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Gear checks are cool.



Beyond doubt. But what would you do if you found yourself in freefall with an undone chest strap?



It wouldn't happen...period.


I learned long ago - if you go skydiving, wear a parachute.

I'm like Dave, meticulous with the gear. All on right & tight before leaving the hangar...checked 3 times while in the aircraft- @ take-off, @ seatbelts off & @ jumprun.

I'd sit that guy down for a while...he either doesn't know shit or doesn't give a fuck.

Either way, he's going to be 'one with the planet' if he doesn't get some new programming and a re-boot.

Video is proof positive that although Skydiving has gone mainstream...it's NOT for everybody. :|










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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DocPop

Textbook.

He didn't even need the cheststrap (as his reserve opening showed!)

Good job on totally ignoring where he was flying after he had a good canopy in favour of continuing to try to do the cheststrap up. And finally excellent work landing the reserve from 3/4-brakes - that was always going to end smoothly.

This is possibly one of the most clueless videos I have ever seen. Talk about a chain of events. Lucky it wasn't way worse.



Bingo Doc, you nailed it...'Textbook'










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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labrys

I will ask anyone who doesn't already have to plan of action to deal with an undone chest strap in freefall come up with one now and discuss it here.



Assuming the chest strap must be undone at pulltime... I see two options. I don't know which one I like better?

1) Cross arms, grab opposite side of body.

2) Best box-man belly to earth pull.

The goal needs to be to keep both main lift webs across your chest.

Option two widens your shoulder area. Option one holds them in place, but rounds your shoulders which might make matters worse...

I had option 1 as my plan should the shit hit the fan... But, I wonder if I am wrong????

(Edit - I was typing as Dave posted... While typing, I sat in my chair looking at my arms and thought about the MLW sliding down my arms... I still wonder if crossing arms might actually promote the MLW sliding off rounded shoulders. No proof, just a thought.)

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davelepka

Priorities people.



I dont know what could be said beyond this.

Gear Check.
Pull Priorities.
Landing Priorities.

3 Basics, 3 ultimates, 3 points each. Something we learn in the first few hours of skydiving and are never ever supposed to sacrifice. He somehow managed to skip/fail every point of every check/priority.

Personally I am not a big fan of always blaming small format cameras. In this case however it is the only explanation to such a compounding series of mistakes.

Maybe if he hadnt almost died this way we would have been discussing his hovering directly over an incredible unstable "freefly formation."
Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

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labrys

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It wouldn't happen...period.



And with some people, like you or Dave, I wouldn't argue. Fact is that it does happen to some people, though. I think Dave posted a great response about how to handle it if it does happen.



Yeah but he's younger and not as grumpy as me. ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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davelepka

Have to love the 'target fixation', right down to trying to thread it under canopy and again on the ground after landing.



Yeah!

(Some people shouldn't jump with chest straps until they have 200 jumps!:P)

It's a valuable "download it before it's gone" video.

The jumper is remarkably distracted even under canopy, seeming to not figure out a landing plan until the last moment. Then he even tried to run it out, despite having had a bunch of brake on with little additional flare left. At least he did seem to do a decent flat turn and not hook himself in!

Edit:
Seems like being back to earth gave him some extra altitude on the AAD fire (as one expects). He got a pretty good 34 seconds or so under the reserve until landing.

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I had 30ish jumps and miss-routed my chest strap. I had it around, but not back under the locking bar. Luckily a guy grabbed my chest strap on climb out and it came undone and he pulled me back in.

Embarrassed and got my first lesson that I don't know what I don't know.

Now... What would I do now if I found myself in this situation? I would grab my right MLW with my left hand, toss out my main and reach across to my left MLW trying to grab it.

This guy.... Without an AAD would be dead. This is a great lesson.... DO NOT TRY IN AIR RIGGING.

Mistake:
1. Clearly no decent self gear checks.

2. He flipped over thinking it would help route it.... Well, he also lost sight of the ground and almost went in on his back.

3. Single minded focus. He was so concerned about his first mistake that he almost died trying to fix it. Even after he was saved my his AAD and under canopy he STILL tried to fix his chest strap.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Under normal operation doesn't the chest strap only have to withstand about 15lbs of pressure? I can't recall where I once heard that figure from... but if that is the case then most folks in this videos scenario would be fine with locking their arms after deployment.

Anyone out there that can provide an accurate figure on the pressure the chest strap receives?
Woot Woot!

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labrys

I'm not going to criticize him. There will be plenty of that to follow, I'm sure.

I will ask anyone who doesn't already have to plan of action to deal with an undone chest strap in freefall come up with one now and discuss it here.



How about throwing the PC then locking arms above your head?
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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Not too long ago after flying base on a 3-way hybrid my cheststrap had become pretty loose. I figured it would have been a good time to test the "reach over and grab the right side MLW with the left hand theory." Worked well, was a bit head low on opening but it definitely would be a decent plan of action in the case of an undone chest strap. (Didn't reach over with the right hand after; wouldn't have changed much considering I didn't have an off-heading opening or line twists anyways).
"Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way." -Alan Watts

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How about throwing the PC then locking arms above your head?



I would think that locking them across would be better than up.

When you think about the forces being applied, the rig is going to try and slip off of your shoulders from the front to the back. It would be better, IMO, to have the shoulders rolled forward and lock your arms across your chest like the chest strap would do.

BTW, I know of jumpers (not including this guy) that survived without a chest strap. In one case they didn't know till after they opened and we had video of his chest strap floating in freefall.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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