CYPRES Activation Alititude

[MakeItHappen 15]

FYI - CYPRES introduced a new feature at the beginning of 2013.

Please see pg 21-24 in the manual
CYPRES 2013 Manual

If you have the latest software updates or a new CYPRES AAD you can set your activation altitude.
And it's 'sticky'.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[normiss 622]

I've already done this.

+300

[ufk22 32]

This being already done, why do we nned to change the BSR's??????????

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

ufk22

This being already done, why do we nned to change the BSR's??????????

[stir pot] Because this now allows for that feature to become mandatory. [/stir pot]

[DocPop 1]

normiss

I've already done this.

+300

That's awesome. I might have to change off my Vigil for this reason.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Doc,

Quote

I might have to change off my Vigil for this reason.

Last week I called both SSK & Vigil America about doing this.

SSK said that all CYPRI mfd since Jan '13 can have a permanent higher activation altitude programmed in.

Vigil America said that you can only change the offset ( i.e., for a different dz atiltude vs take-off altitude ) and it will not be permanent.

So I then sent an email to Advanced Aerospace Designs (AAD) in Belgium requesting that they change their software to allow a user-set permanent change of activation altitude.

Stay tuned, film at 11,

JerryBaumchen

PS) You could go on the AAD website and send them your thoughts.

http://www.vigil.aero/contact

[grue 1]

JerryBaumchen

SSK said that all CYPRI mfd since Jan '13 can have a permanent higher activation altitude programmed in.

Am I correct in believing people can have this software update applied to earlier units?

cavete terrae.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi grue,

Quote

Am I correct in believing people can have this software update applied to earlier units?

I did not inquire about that. I suggest that you contact AirTec on this matter.

JerryBaumchen

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Quote

SSK said that all CYPRI mfd since Jan '13 can have a permanent higher activation altitude programmed in.

Jerry, et all,

Not stiring the pot this time... so what does this mean?

IOW... what is the new activation altitude for post Jan 13 mfgr CYPRESes vs. pre Jan 13 mfgr CYPRESes?

[grue 1]

ZigZagMarquis

Quote

SSK said that all CYPRI mfd since Jan '13 can have a permanent higher activation altitude programmed in.

Jerry, et all,

Not stiring the pot this time... so what does this mean?

IOW... what is the new activation altitude for post Jan 13 mfgr CYPRESes vs. pre Jan 13 mfgr CYPRESes?

It just means the ones made in the last half year or so can be user-defined. The default value hasn't changed.

cavete terrae.

[normiss 622]

^^^
This is my understanding based on discussions with SSK at PIA when we ordered our Cypres'.

[woppyvac 0]

Hope Vigil starts allowing this on their system. What about the Mars AAD?

Woot Woot!

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi normiss,

Yup, that it what they said.

I just received a PM from Vigil America and she says that if you program an offset in their units, it will stay that way until you change it.

Just to clarify.

JerryBaumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi woppy,

Quote

Hope Vigil starts allowing this on their system.

Well, I did give a link so you can contact them.

Quote

What about the Mars AAD?

I did not contact them; probably should have.

JerryBaumchen

[PhreeZone 15]

An offset raises the upper and lower end at the same time. If you raise it by 500 feet it moves the window from ~750 feet at the upper and 300 at the lower to new settings of an upper at 1250 and a lower end where it will not fire under 800 now.

Airtec with this change allows the bottom end to stay the same and just increases the window size for firing instead of from ~780-300 to a new config of "X" to 300.

What ever your personal opinion on how much the lower end will come into play for a save is another conversation.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Skydivesg 6]

DocPop

***I've already done this.

+300

That's awesome. I might have to change off my Vigil for this reason.

The discussion about permantly offsetting the Vigil has taken place many times on this site. I know of several people who have set their Vigil to activate 300 feet above the normal default altitude. And yes it stays in the unit until you change it back.

After start up the display will show the mode ie. PRO and +300 or whatever you've offset (assuming you have it set in feet).

The following is from the current manual. It references that the offset was designed for taking off from an airport with a different elevation compared to the landing location. However, it accomplishes the same thing as a permanent offset in firing altitude.

Manual > ******************

An “altitude correction” mode allows you to introduce a positive or negative altitude
difference between the departure and landing levels (from +6000ft to -6000 ft or from +2000m to -2000m) in steps of
150ft or 50 m.
The Vigil® takes this altitude correction into account to calculate the new activation altitude. This principle also
allows you to modify the activation altitude permanently ............................

************************************

For those of you who post less than accurate information - please be more careful in the future.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be..

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[hannadd 0]

I'm sure you are correct on the offset affecting both the upper and lower end.

If someone wants to use the offset for the Vigil, they should know the actual window(s):

3.3.1. “PRO” Mode
The Vigil® cutter activates at 840 ft. (256 meters) and below until 150 ft. (46 meters),
if the freefall speed is equal or superior to 35 m/sec. (78 mph or 126 km/h)*
3.3.2. “STUDENT” Mode
The Vigil® cutter activates at 1040 ft. (317 meters) and below until 150 ft. (46 meters),
if the freefall speed is equal or superior to 20 m/sec. (45 mph or 72 km/h)*
3.3.3. “TANDEM” Mode
The Vigil® cutter activates at 2040 ft. (622 meters) and below until 150 ft. (46 meters),
if the freefall speed is equal or superior to 35 m/sec. (78 mph or 126 km/h)*

[Deyan 31]

Quote

SSK said that all CYPRI mfd since Jan '13 can have a permanent higher activation altitude programmed in.

Hi Jerry,

All units sent for 4/8 years check starting from Jan '13 have this feature as well !

Take care

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[DocPop 1]

PhreeZone

An offset raises the upper and lower end at the same time. If you raise it by 500 feet it moves the window from ~750 feet at the upper and 300 at the lower to new settings of an upper at 1250 and a lower end where it will not fire under 800 now.

What ever your personal opinion on how much the lower end will come into play for a save is another conversation.

This is actually a bonus for swoopers. I think +300 is a good option for me - I don't pull dirty low but my Optima does flatline during my 270s so this sounds like a great option.

Thanks.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[JBecker 0]

So the new BSR opening minimums come into affect with the 2014-2015 SIM, which is supposed to release sometime next month (Sept. 2013). Any guesses on how long after that the AAD manufacturers change their activation defaults? And any guesses on what that new default may be?

With the Jan 2013 CYPRES software, a user (or instructor or S&TA) can see/confirm the activation altitude has been raised by looking at the display. When the AAD’s change their defaults, it could be confusing to differentiate old vs. new units (unless they roll out the new defaults with a CYPRES 3).

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Sandy,

Quote

For those of you who post less than accurate information - please be more careful in the future.

That would be me. Sorry!!!

And thanks for the correction; to all of you.

JerryBaumchen

[Skydivesg 6]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Sandy,

Quote

For those of you who post less than accurate information - please be more careful in the future.

That would be me. Sorry!!!

And thanks for the correction; to all of you.

JerryBaumchen

No worries, Jerry.

At least you step up when you make a mistake and we all make them from time to time.

Now just for some additional clarification.

When you do an "Altitude Correction" on a Vigil, the offset only affects the top number of the firing window not the bottom.

This means if you set your Vigil to fire + 300 ft, it adds that offset to the firing altitude on the top end but the bottom altitude always remains at 150 ft. (and again - this "Altitude Correction" becomes the new start-up default until you change it)

To the mods: shouldn't this be in Gear and Rigging?

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[Southern_Man 0]

Skydivesg

No worries, Jerry.

At least you step up when you make a mistake and we all make them from time to time.

Now just for some additional clarification.

When you do an "Altitude Correction" on a Vigil, the offset only affects the top number of the firing window not the bottom.

This means if you set your Vigil to fire + 300 ft, it adds that offset to the firing altitude on the top end but the bottom altitude always remains at 150 ft. (and again - this "Altitude Correction" becomes the new start-up default until you change it)

To the mods: shouldn't this be in Gear and Rigging?

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

.

Is there some documentation on this? Has it changed at all?

I know you have a lot of experience and knowledge with the Vigils. I called and talked to them a few months ago specifically about altitude offsets and (unless I am remembering incorrectly which is possible) they told me that the bottom end would turn off higher.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Skydivesg 6]

Southern_Man

***

Now just for some additional clarification.

When you do an "Altitude Correction" on a Vigil, the offset only affects the top number of the firing window not the bottom.

This means if you set your Vigil to fire + 300 ft, it adds that offset to the firing altitude on the top end but the bottom altitude always remains at 150 ft. (and again - this "Altitude Correction" becomes the new start-up default until you change it)
.

Is there some documentation on this? Has it changed at all?

I know you have a lot of experience and knowledge with the Vigils. I called and talked to them a few months ago specifically about altitude offsets and (unless I am remembering incorrectly which is possible) they told me that the bottom end would turn off higher.

I'm thinking you may have remembered it wrong.

It has not changed. I've copied some text from the current manual.
***************************************
3. Function
3.1. General Working Principle:
The Vigil® must only be turned on at ground level; it will calibrate itself to the current ground elevation pressure.
This is the “GROUND ZERO” reference and will progressively re-calibrate itself every 32 sec. Once your Vigil® is
on, it will at each take-off (in max. 32 sec, from +150ft or 46m) switch to active mode.
In freefall, it starts to continuously calculate the leftover time to reach the activation altitude appropriate to the
programmed mode. When this altitude (or lower) is reached by the jumper at equal or superior speed compared to
the factory-set parameters, the cutter of the Vigil® will instantly fire and cut the closing loop of your emergency
parachute (<0,002 sec). An “altitude correction” mode allows you to introduce a positive or negative altitude
difference between the departure and landing levels (from +6000ft to -6000 ft or from +2000m to -2000m) in steps of
150ft or 50 m.
The Vigil® takes this altitude correction into account to calculate the new activation altitude. This principle also
allows you to modify the activation altitude permanently if the airport where you take off and the landing zone are at
DIFFERENT altitudes or if there is a hillock near the drop zone.

***************************************

Try not to read into anything - just take the text as it is written.

When you turn on your Vigil at the place you intend to land (usually the DZ) the Vigil determines this to be "Ground Zero". When you are climbing in the plane and reach 150 feet the Vigil will switch to "active mode".

This is the bottom of your activation window.

The top of the activation window is the default setting for activation. If you add 300 feet to the top setting ("Altitude Correction") the Vigil will fire 300 feet higher than the factory default. And - this added "Altitude Correction" will now be your default "Activation Altitude" until you change it in the Vigil "Setup Mode".

Again don't read anything into the text. The bottom of the activation window remains 150 feet above "Ground Zero" regardless of what you do to the top setting.

I hope this helps.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[Scrumpot 1]

Quote

When you do an "Altitude Correction" on a Vigil, the offset only affects the top number of the firing window not the bottom.

Are you absolutely certain of this? Aren't you really though, just telling the unit that "the ground at my landing zone is XX feet higher (or lower) than where I took off" - so the NET affect is that the unit will also interpret 300ft AGL (the bottom end) just that much higher (or lower) as a result too? I just want to be SURE, absolutely clear is all - so this is a QUESTION, not a "challenge".

TIA for all the granular/detailed information & consideration(s) being shared on here!

EDIT TO ADD: P.S. - I am/was referring to the Cypres (the title of the thread). I note however you are referring in your response though - to the Vigil. So they may be different, and I understand that. Again - just to be absolutely sure we are all perfectly clear. - THANKS!!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone