Looking at alti to much ???

[mattjw916 2]

As a freeflyer/vidiot I find it is impractical to use a visual altimeter much/ever during freefall. Sure, I wear one but mostly use it under canopy. I have 2 audibles and prefer to use my eyes as my third altimeter. I have found that my brain is very well calibrated as well. I've never gone "low" unless it was intentional and have never lost altitude awareness. I have contemplated adding the visual warning light for the Optima to my helmet setup as an additional precaution though.

With the added "swoop beeps" of the Optima I have gone entire skydives without looking at my wrist even once. I'm certainly not recommeding this for anyone new to the sport though. This just works for me.

Flamesuit on.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Trae 1]

in reply to " - he also states I will be laughed at because of this post. If that is your opinion and you find my safety choices funny Id just like to remind you of the no pull fatalities, the low pulls and the fact that I am still very much a baby in this sport. "
.......................

Just laugh back at them. they're funny and can be dangerous encouragng people to dump lower.

I've known many an experienced skydiver that loves to dump high. Tandems do it all the time or should. You get to fly around under canopy and stay in the air much longer getting heaps more value for money especially if you're getting out at 14000'.

Having all that extra time to deal with any malfunction also improves your survival chances.

Deploying 10 seconds off the deck suits a lot of people but not all.
Skydiving wingsuiters in general dump higher because they've got more things to do after opening.

In general dumping higher allows a novice to relax a lot more enabling them to find their own comfort level not be forced to emulate the lowest puller.

Being too casual about altitude watching can only lead one way. In this sport it doesn't hurt (usually) if you err on the side of caution. Just remember to let people know you'll be deploying high.

ps if you're good at altitude watching you'll always have a place on big loads as a sure fire safety valve.

[bigbearfng 16]

I also check where the airport is in relation to where I am at just incase I am long and need to leave my breaks set upon opening to make it back.


First off I consider myself a newb still.
Only dumb question is the one not asked.....
I won't ask anyone to do something on a jump that they're not comfortable with.

No critizism from me on your post-however your above comment jumped out at me; please reconsider leaving your brakes stowed after opening-it's bit some folk on the butt!!! I understand someone may not have the strengh to hold rear risers to extend your range back, but I'd rather see them unstow right away and pick a spot to land out early, rather than find out a problem much later.....possibly too late....

[azureriders 0]

I have my opinion of your post as well as one for all the responses, but that has all been covered and I have nothing really to add. I am also not worried about getting flamed and actually like it when some of my responses come back negative, but I still thought the below should be repeated. It is very true

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I think it is a sad day when students like myself are one day being insulted for exceeding their education, then the next day being mocked or laughed at because they are safe to an excess

[thepollster 0]

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I also check where the airport is in relation to where I am at just incase I am long and need to leave my breaks set upon opening to make it back.

Don't do this. People have died leaving their breaks set too long, and it really won't help you get back vs. other techniques.

[kelpdiver 2]

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At your experience level, breakoffs at 5500 to 6500 are excessive. You should be comfortable with a BO of 4500 on a 4-way say and pull at 3k. See SIM 6-1 for the USPA guidelines on BO altitudes. But if you are not comfortable yet with that then keep doing what you are. Just let others know you are pulling high. If you visit busy DZs you may not do be able to do that.

Jan, is tossing at 3 really a good idea for someone at 58 jumps? She'll burn past that 2500 decision height on a normal deploy, and if there is a minor canopy issue, she'll have not very long to decide to chop using a 1800 or 2000 one. Even less for a total.

I keep running into those who want more than 10k of freefall and don't want to BO until 4.5, and it's a PITA. I want to toss at 3.5, and that points to a 5k breakoff.

[namgrunt 0]

HAY girl
its YOUR ass
its YOUR jump
live long and DO NOT worry what outhers say

bet you NEVER pull low ,now that would scare me if you did that.

everything in its time..why rush

..

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[AFFI 0]

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At your experience level, breakoffs at 5500 to 6500 are excessive. You should be comfortable with a BO of 4500 on a 4-way say and pull at 3k. See SIM 6-1 for the USPA guidelines on BO altitudes. But if you are not comfortable yet with that then keep doing what you are. Just let others know you are pulling high. If you visit busy DZs you may not do be able to do that.

Jan, is tossing at 3 really a good idea for someone at 58 jumps? She'll burn past that 2500 decision height on a normal deploy, and if there is a minor canopy issue, she'll have not very long to decide to chop using a 1800 or 2000 one. Even less for a total.

I keep running into those who want more than 10k of freefall and don't want to BO until 4.5, and it's a PITA. I want to toss at 3.5, and that points to a 5k breakoff.

Thanks for pointing out and clarifying why this is really bad advice to give not only someone with low jump numbres but any skydiver who just is not at that comfort level yet...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[AFFI 0]

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I also check where the airport is in relation to where I am at just incase I am long and need to leave my breaks set upon opening to make it back.

Don't do this. People have died leaving their breaks set too long, and it really won't help you get back vs. other techniques.

Can anyone expand on this a bit and explain why it is a potential hazzard?

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[lisamariewillbe 1]

From what I understand its possible that they get stuck and cant be released resulting in less time to cut away and pull reserve as well as the fact that one cant check the status as far as its steeribility, it is not something I do for a long period of time, and often far between instences due to my opening often in closed end cells.

In the selfish end, if the canopy opens to this perfect square I want it to be, there is nothing more awe inspiring and for those few moments, i get a sense of peace with my flight and with well its really corney but it is not something that has never lasted more then 5 seconds. Although I have often times just wished I could leave them stowed and sail to the ends of the earth

Oh and to add, if my spot would be long, I would bring it while stowed down but not to a point I could not have enough time to cut away and pull my reserve if I did not recieve the feedback needed to steer and land.

This is one of the things I will definitly be seeking advice on soon on personal one on one with an instructor

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[AFFI 0]

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From what I understand its possible that they get stuck and cant be released resulting in less time to cut away and pull reserve as well as the fact that one cant check the status as far as its steeribility, it is not something I do for a long period of time, and often far between instences due to my opening often in closed end cells.

In the selfish end, if the canopy opens to this perfect square I want it to be, there is nothing more awe inspiring and for those few moments, i get a sense of peace with my flight and with well its really corney but it is not something that has never lasted more then 5 seconds. Although I have often times just wished I could leave them stowed and sail to the ends of the earth

Good, just as long as you understand the potential hazard. Good rule of thumb is to release your brakes or not make high performance maneuvers beneath an altitude you are not willing to cutaway from.

I totally understand your appreciation of the beauty and peaceful calm under canopy – I often like to do clear and pull from altitude. Especially on a sunset load but have never done this without at least on partner to fly with me…

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[pincheck 0]

you do what you feel happy with, we all progress at differant rates.

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[MakeItHappen 15]

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At your experience level, breakoffs at 5500 to 6500 are excessive. You should be comfortable with a BO of 4500 on a 4-way say and pull at 3k. See SIM 6-1 for the USPA guidelines on BO altitudes. But if you are not comfortable yet with that then keep doing what you are. Just let others know you are pulling high. If you visit busy DZs you may not do be able to do that.

Jan, is tossing at 3 really a good idea for someone at 58 jumps? She'll burn past that 2500 decision height on a normal deploy, and if there is a minor canopy issue, she'll have not very long to decide to chop using a 1800 or 2000 one. Even less for a total.

I keep running into those who want more than 10k of freefall and don't want to BO until 4.5, and it's a PITA. I want to toss at 3.5, and that points to a 5k breakoff.

I think you missed the part of
"But if you are not comfortable yet with that then keep doing what you are."

A 5500-6500 BO is excessive -even for someone with 50 jumps on a regular jump. If they were jumping a new canopy or new container that would be ok.

This reminds me of someone on a WWR event a few years back. She was in the outside wave with an assigned pull altitude of 2200 ft. She said her canopy took 900 ft or so to open. That would put her below her decision altitude. I asked her if she wanted to run through EPs with so-n-so (a local Instructor) or suggested that she might change canopies. I even mentioned that I retired parachutes that took that long to open.

I think you will continue to run into PITA jumpers because a BO at 4k is ok for a 4-way (for B license and above). When your comfort level gets to that place, you'll find more jumpers willing to jump with you. As a steady diet, I would not want to do that (unless you were paying for my slot). Heck, we used to BO 20-ways at 3.5k (and still do every once in awhile). It's the canopy openings that are driving the opening altitudes up. Get a canopy that opens faster. I did and I also do things to augment openings when I have a 2k opening altitude. I will know by 1800 ft whether it's going to open or not.

Experience and comfort level have a great deal to do with this.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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A 5500-6500 BO is excessive

Where in the SIM does it say it is excessive? Wouldnt it only be excessive if it was ever a problem for those I have jumped with?

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WWR event a few years back

Damn I guess since it was okay for her, it should be for me? Yes I am getting quite defensive now. These are MY skydives that I ALWAYS run over dive flows with people who I JUMP with and those on the load. You have no right to state where my progression should have me. If I want to do solo jumps for my first 500 jumps that is MY right, I am the one who will be saving my ass when things go wrong, NOT you, NOT anyone but ME.

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(for B license and above).

I do not have a B lisence, nor have I completed the objectives for such, I know you will find reason to insult that as well and that is fine with me. I have had more people agree with me then not and the people who have not agreed with me have never spoken to me before and have no idea what level I am at. One day we are jump wonders the next day we are to slow. I love how ironic this is... it was only a few weeks ago that you were complaining because a new jumper was out of their element and comfort zone.

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you'll find more jumpers willing to jump with you. As a steady diet, I would not want to do that

I have never had that problem. If anything I have the opposite problem. Trust me at this point regardless of what you "have done for the sport" or the "USPA" I would not even jump with you if you were paying your own slot. Anyone who feels they have a right to accuse me of being to safe, or tell me I should do things that I personally am not ready for is NOT someone I would trust in this sport.

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Heck, we used to BO 20-ways at 3.5k (and still do every once in awhile).

Im glad that for you , you are at a experence level where you can do that. Me on a 20 way is the last thing from my mind. I have spent apprx 60 mins in freefall, if you think anyone can be great when only spending 60 mins doing it, esp a sport like skydiving maybe you should read some more of your own articles. If you think I am experienced enough to BO below what my PERSONAL hard deck is then maybe you should reconsider giving advice to those you do not know. Thank god Im smart enough to not listen to everything on the internet regardless who it is from. Stop comparing me to what you do, and what others at your level do. Were not talking about an experienced jumper, we are talking about one who less then a year in the sport and less then 60 jumps.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[MakeItHappen 15]

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A 5500-6500 BO is excessive

Where in the SIM does it say it is excessive? Wouldnt it only be excessive if it was ever a problem for those I have jumped with?

SIM does not say anything like that. But didn't you say in your first post:
"....So he says its excessive,...."
and you were asking people if they agreed or not with this???
"....Id like to know what others think,...."

Now you know my opinion. Isn't that what you wanted?
You never asked what the SIM said was 'excessive'.

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WWR event a few years back

Damn I guess since it was okay for her, it should be for me? Yes I am getting quite defensive now. These are MY skydives that I ALWAYS run over dive flows with people who I JUMP with and those on the load. You have no right to state where my progression should have me. If I want to do solo jumps for my first 500 jumps that is MY right, I am the one who will be saving my ass when things go wrong, NOT you, NOT anyone but ME.

I think you need some remedial lessons on how to read a thread. People reply to others. They may say something to them that does not apply to the original post. You know like me replying to KelpDiver.
IOW, it's not all about you.

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(for B license and above).

I do not have a B lisence, nor have I completed the objectives for such, I know you will find reason to insult that as well and that is fine with me. I have had more people agree with me then not and the people who have not agreed with me have never spoken to me before and have no idea what level I am at. One day we are jump wonders the next day we are to slow. I love how ironic this is... it was only a few weeks ago that you were complaining because a new jumper was out of their element and comfort zone.

See above. And, to elaborate, KelpDiver does have a B license. I was replying to him, not you.

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you'll find more jumpers willing to jump with you. As a steady diet, I would not want to do that

I have never had that problem. If anything I have the opposite problem. Trust me at this point regardless of what you "have done for the sport" or the "USPA" I would not even jump with you if you were paying your own slot. Anyone who feels they have a right to accuse me of being to safe, or tell me I should do things that I personally am not ready for is NOT someone I would trust in this sport.

See above. You know the post that you just replied to was not directed at you. The world does not revolve around you.

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Heck, we used to BO 20-ways at 3.5k (and still do every once in awhile).

Im glad that for you , you are at a experence level where you can do that. Me on a 20 way is the last thing from my mind. I have spent apprx 60 mins in freefall, if you think anyone can be great when only spending 60 mins doing it, esp a sport like skydiving maybe you should read some more of your own articles. If you think I am experienced enough to BO below what my PERSONAL hard deck is then maybe you should reconsider giving advice to those you do not know. Thank god Im smart enough to not listen to everything on the internet regardless who it is from. Stop comparing me to what you do, and what others at your level do. Were not talking about an experienced jumper, we are talking about one who less then a year in the sport and less then 60 jumps.

See above. You know the post that you just replied to was not directed at you. The world does not revolve around you.
I feel like I am repeating myself.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Yet the world revolves around you and your experience and where you think others should be? Kelp was making a remark on what you said about me, yes ME who this thread is about. This thread DOES revolve around me just incase you missed the part where I was seeking information on just how others view newbies and their skydives in regards to alti awareness.

If you did not notice, Kelp was making a comment on your suggestion to me. He was not stating his personal experience. So yes this thread does revolve around me and its only a matter of time before the sun does to (notice the sarcasim).

Im starting to get the feeling your posts are more how great you are then anything else. I hate to say it but it scares me that you are one of the USPA reps. Considering how you have acted in several threads regarding safety. So are these attacks about my need to be safe, or are they more about the fact that I filed a complaint with the USPA a few weeks ago after you defiled a incident thread and blamed skyride for a no-pull? Which is it? Do you really give a shit that in my little corner of the world I BO high and you feel sorry for all those who ask me to jump with them? Or is it petty little vendetta because I felt that if I pay to be part of an organization I feel I have a right to voice my opinion? You are a disappointment, and you are one of the reasons newbies are scared to seek advice and assistence. Regardless of your articles, or your big ways, a person is only as good as what they pass on...

Wonder what this sport will look like in 20 years since it is now becoming a bad thing to seek education and advice?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Remster 24]

Pipe down you two...

Jan: stop feeding the fire.

Lisa Marie: you really need to stop getting all rilled up all the time for what you percieve as attacks.

Remster

[mattjw916 2]

Jan's points are valid. Don't get testy because she didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. A 5500-6000ft break off alti _is_ excessive, esp on a flat jump, even at your experience level. That's up there at AFF-student altitude.

Take some time to look around at 5500ft. You are still high enough that ground rush is almost imperceptable. I say go do a bunch of hop and pops at 4k and 3k until you aren't scared of that big blue ball called earth underneath you. Alternatively, try a day or two of mellow 4 ways like "build a round" or some "no-contact" stuff and gradually work the break off down to at least 4k. Respecting the ground is great, being virtually paralyzed at the sight of it is not.

I'm more curious why your "safety zone" is so high? It seems a lot more like you are trying to lull yourself into a false sense of security by pulling high just like some people do by jumping ridiculously lightly loaded canopies or refusing to jump without every wiz-bang gadget installed on their rig.

You will be hamstringing your own progression if every skydive has to be planned around your break-off altitude. Hell, at most of the boogies I've been to the MAX pull altitude was 3.5k. If that was _really_ dangerous why would people like Bryan Burke, who are deeply involved with keeping skydivers safe, mandate it during boogies?

A section of one of Brian Germain's books comes to mind... to paraphrase: a mountain climber lost his footing and slipped, now hanging only by a little branch he asked God for help. God spoke to him saying that he will help him if only he lets go of the branch first. The climber then asked, "Is there anyone else out there?" The stick is _your_ self-perception and fear. Unless you let go, you will never get help.

Happy jumping!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[catfishhunter 1]

You asked the questions so here's my answer..

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In addition once I track for 5 secs from the formation I stare at my alti till my exact pull time.

Excessive and Unsafe unless you are jumping alone. No way you can be AWARE staring at the shiney spinning thing Your procedure is safe for AFF but I wouldn't want you on a jump with me if your spending more time staring at your wrist instead of skydiving.

Shit happens and if your staring at your wrist that will be the last thing you see when it hits the fan.

Keep your jumps to solo's or two ways with a coach until your able to be AWARE throughout the ENTIRE skydive from take off to packing.

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granted I am not changing my personal safety things just because others think I read my altitude to much

Then why did you bother to come ask?

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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A 5500-6000ft break off alti _is_ excessive,

That is a matter of perception, as I stated before, my last jump I was invited on a 4 way, I stated no Im pulling high, the instructor stated he was also. Where I just on a regular basis it is the norm. I have also stated I have pulled lower, when I went to Perris, I pulled at 4 the first one, then 3500 the second. Its a matter of perception, and personally the only thing I think I have messed up on here is the train of thought that I stop my track at 5 and lock on. Which that was taken from my FJC with Glenn Bangs, as well as the rest of my student jumps. I have already stated that I will speak with my instructors and get some training for the next step. However that being said, they still are my skydives.

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I say go do a bunch of hop and pops

15 of my jumps are hop and pops. Im not scared of the earth until the last 50 feet and for some reason I have this feeling that at 58 jumps, and since my flare is often 1 sometimes 2 feet off from the right distence I feel that for ME its best to not change to much about my skydives until Im ready to. I have not been able to do a canopy course yet, and therefore do not feel that I deserve to progress to a point of preparing for big ways where I dump and am in the saddle by 1800 feet, that just seems silly to think of at my stage.

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try a day or two of mellow 4 ways like "build a round" or some "no-contact"

Have done that, Ive also had more experience people dictate the high break off before I had a chance to state its what I was doing.

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work the break off down to at least 4k

When I first started jumping where I do, I stated I had a pull alti of 3500 , I up'd it after I saw instuctors pulling higher then me on their fun jumps, and after my cut away, from the moment I had the mal, to the moment I was under my reserve it was a bit less then 1000 ft (not exact I have not re-checked my log book but I am almost positive) I did not have a AAD nor a RSL.

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It seems a lot more like you are trying to lull yourself into a false sense of security by pulling high just like some people do by jumping ridiculously lightly loaded canopies

Please explain how it would be a false sense of security? And guess what? I am loaded at .7 to 1. And yes thats much safer for me at this stage. Why is it safer? Because its where I am comfortable at and I would prefer a slow progression. I hear sometimes my landings will be easier if I bring it closer to 1 to 1 , but I choose to not do that yet until I have my own gear.

As I have stated a few times, I have pulled lower if it is needed for the perticular DZ, I inform everyone everytime exactly where I am BO and where I am pulling. I will bring my pull alti lower but any RW or objectives for me are done no later then 5500 prefer it at 6000. If people have a problem with it, then they wouldnt continue to ask to jump with me. I do not see the safety in breaking off earlier, all I see is that some (although its only a problem it seems in the virtual world and nothing ive dealt with) think it wouldnt be fun to jump with me if they had to let me break that early. Im out to have fun, but not at what I feel is a un-needed risk for my stage and my time in sport.

Also it seems that many are simply implying that for my progression in skydiving I need to start changing things.... I agree, I change things often, but my skydiving is not a road to 4 way teams or VRW teams its a road to inner peace and strength... I lack the dream to win a medal or a title in this sport. I just want to survive it to have another jump.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[mattjw916 2]

Yes, locking on to your altimeter is a bad idea as a licensed sport jumper on group dives or otherwise... Your last moments of terminal freefall are better spent in other ways.. how about clearing that airspace around you for instance? Have you ever had someone track in a circle and end up above you? What about below you? What about that last solo on the plane after your group exited that didn't leave enough separation and drifted overhead? These have all happened to me and many many others.

Why not check you alti at break off, turn and track for five seconds, look around, wave off (or not) and pitch? Your freefall rate is not going to spontaneously increase to such an extent you need to check agian. If you tracked for five seconds, you just fell less than 1000ft, maybe a bit more or less... altimeters aren't _that_ accurate anyway and can fail any time. I had mine disagree with my dytter by over 1000ft once. Which one was wrong? Who cares... I looked at the ground, saw I wasn't low by any stretch of the imagination and tracked for a couple more seconds. Not panicking, having a plan, and a backup plan keeps us safe.

One of the first things my coach after AFF told me was, "Remember all that stuff we just taught you in AFF? Well, forget it... this is how you skydive now!" ...and the real instruction began. Many hundreds of jumps later I can find no fault with his sentiment.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[bob.dino 0]

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I also check where the airport is in relation to where I am at just incase I am long and need to leave my breaks set upon opening to make it back.

Don't do this. People have died leaving their breaks set too long, and it really won't help you get back vs. other techniques.

Can anyone expand on this a bit and explain why it is a potential hazzard?

Fatality at Perris, 05 Nov 2005.

[mattjw916 2]

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Please explain how it would be a false sense of security? And guess what? I am loaded at .7 to 1. And yes thats much safer for me at this stage. Why is it safer? Because its where I am comfortable at and I would prefer a slow progression. I hear sometimes my landings will be easier if I bring it closer to 1 to 1 , but I choose to not do that yet until I have my own gear.

Because people on this forum hammer home the fact that big=safe. Generally it is correct, but the law of diminishing returns will kick in after a certain point. Personally I dislike jumping anything loaded under 1:1. I find it is much easier to time my flares properly when I have enough forward speed to plane-out and touch down in separate stages rather than sinking in with an all-or-nothing-slam-on-the-brakes-flare. I've jumped everything loaded from .74:1 to 1.5:1. In fact I hated flying canopies until I tried out a Sabre2 loaded at 1.1:1. Being confident with your canopy is equally important to the loading IMHO but without seeing what you fly, or how you are flying it, no one here can offer any meaningful advice.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I really see your point, and on my next jump I do plan to not only be briefed on this very thread but also plan to have my personal SOP debriefed and recieve education.

Since I break off high, which Im not planning to change just yet since I now plan to work on track timing and such, if I were to track for the 5 secs, I am not at the altitude to where I can dump yet. I am anal, if in normal circumstances (no weird emergancy) I say Im pulling at 4500 I will not pull higher or lower, I pull at 4500 and have fears of doing anything different then what others have been informed that I am doing. It appears that for my progression at this point, I will track for 5 , check alti and airspace and ground, track some more. Granted only after I talk to those who know my skydiving in a personal way.

Ive not ever been told to go away from my AFF instruction, and when it comes down to it, to save my life, I will go back to the procedures I learned in AFF because those were my basic survival skills. If im unstable I breathe and arch harder, when I pull I give a huge exaggerated wave off and pull, then go back to box man, when landings are iffy due to change of winds or an out, I will PLF. I understand that alot of the advice others have given is for the fun aspect of skydiving and that im wasting FF time for myself and others. Ive never had a jump that wasnt fun. If there comes a time that a skydive is not fun, I may choose to give it up. Skydiving does not define who I am but its a nice ride while I have it. Its dangerous though so I try to strieve to make it less so, by not taking extra risks. Ive had the "out landing in a herd of animals" and the "cutaway with no AAD or RSL" neither time was I scared to a point I did not think clearly and both times I went back to my AFF training and neither time did I get hurt

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[tbrown 26]

I seem to look at the altimeter quite a lot under 6000 feet though.